UConn recruits better backcourts than we do

[dasher]

Kemba was a Junior. He played in 2009 6 OT game. Lamb was a Sophomore.

Dion Waiters was a Sophomore and MCW was a Sophomore. If MCW didn't go to prep school he might have stayed an extra year, but because he was 21 years old he had to leave to get his NBA clock started to get a 2nd contract in his mid-20s. Wes Johnson had to leave because of his age as well. Flynn left because his NBA stock would never be higher.

Melo and MCW were the only early entries that got Syracuse to the promised land and last year if we had another guard we might have been able to win a NC. This year and last year we only played 3 guards and small margins for error if one our guys had an off day.

And how much did Napier and Boatright sit? Seemed to play a lot of minutes to me.

 

[Alsacs]

And how much did Napier and Boatright sit? Seemed to play a lot of minutes to me.

UConn's 3rd and 4th guards played double digit minutes. Kromah played 20 minutes, Samuel played 11 minutes.

If you have developed a bench over the course of a season it gives you more options. You can play big, or play small. Our 2010 team was the perfect example of that. These past 2 years we have gone 7 deep. We have only had 3 guards the last 2 years and next year I have no freaking clue. People expecting Joseph to be special are putting a lot of pressure on this kid. I like his potential, but don't expect another Ennis season.

We have 13 scholarship players expecting 10 of them to be able to contribute is NOT A LOT to ask for a program as elite as Syracuse. Considering we don't recruit the top 10 recruits each season, but go after top 25-50 guys who fit our system.

 

[dasher]

UConn's 3rd and 4th guards played double digit minutes. Kromah played 20 minutes, Samuel played 11 minutes.

If you have developed a bench over the course of a season it gives you more options. You can play big, or play small. Our 2010 team was the perfect example of that. These past 2 years we have gone 7 deep. We have only had 3 guards the last 2 years and next year I have no freaking clue. People expecting Joseph to be special are putting a lot of pressure on this kid. I like his potential, but don't expect another Ennis season.

We have 13 scholarship players expecting 10 of them to be able to contribute is NOT A LOT to ask for a program as elite as Syracuse. Considering we don't recruit the top 10 recruits each season, but go after top 25-50 guys who fit our system.

It's not to much to ask? Why should we ask it at all? We don't have any idea how good these kids are.

 

[TheCusian]

richard hamilton/khalid el amin ben gordon/rashad anderson kemba walker/jeremy lamb shabazz napier/ryan boatright We've been close but we haven't really put it together in the backcourt since 03. often have one but not the other McCroskey, Wright, Harris off and on at guard I make excuses for Devendorf, I think he was hurt by the front court more. Flynn/Devendorf should've been better. We either have not enough guards or too many out of position We've had great teams but we haven't had pairs of guards as good as uconn. Waiters and MCW were great but the 2nd fiddles weren't quite as good (Triche, Scoop, Cooney)

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this post? Comparing programs is getting old. We don't play them, they are in a second tier conference, and we really only need to "worry" about recruiting against them.

Rivals? Once upon a time. Now? Not really.

 

[Alsacs]

It's not to much to ask? Why should we ask it at all? We don't have any idea how good these kids are.

I honestly don't why you would respond like that. I mean seriously if expecting 10 of the 13 players being able to play 5-10 mpg in conference play and the tournament then I guess I have too high a standard for you.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this post? Comparing programs is getting old. We don't play them, they are in a second tier conference, and we really only need to "worry" about recruiting against them.

Rivals? Once upon a time. Now? Not really.

I didn't say anything about a rivalry

they just won the national championship. i'd like to win another. maybe we should pay attention to how teams win titles.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I wish we would keep the zone, but also flip the switch occasionally play man to man. What is wrong about playing zone 75% of the time and man to man 25%. Just to switch moment from time to time or whenever it becomes obvious teams are stall balling against the zone.

I was thinking about this last night. I really love Pitino's pressure man combined with the 2-3 zone. SU doesn't need to run and press all the time, but the zone tends to benefit smaller & weaker teams where SU should use their athletic and size advantage more. SU is recruiting better athletes than ever, but they're leaving them stationary on the floor forcing them to react to offenses instead of pressure offenses.

People get hunting dogs built like little Ferraris for pets and then complain when they chew up a couch after being locked up all day. Sometimes, you just gotta let athletes be athletic.

 

[dasher]

I honestly don't why you would respond like that. I mean seriously if expecting 10 of the 13 players being able to play 5-10 mpg in conference play and the tournament then I guess I have too high a standard for you.

No one plays 13 guys in conference play. That is insane.

 

[Alsacs]

No one plays 13 guys in conference play. That is insane.

I said 10 OF 13. NOT 13. Jeez. I don't expect every single scholarship player to be able to contribute. I am okay with 2 projects and 1 walkon, but 10 of 13 players should be able to contribute my goodness.

 

[Fly Rodder]

No one plays 13 guys in conference play. That is insane.

Who said SU should play 13 guys in conference?

maybe we should pay attention to how teams win titles.

It's all just luck supposedly.

 

[dasher]

Who said SU should play 13 guys in conference?


It's all just luck supposedly.

Did someone say it was all luck? That would be silly. But there is a large element that you can't control. Take last night. UConn had nothing to do with whether KU made free throws or not. KU deserved to lose because they couldn't make them but if they had drilled them, what would we be saying about UConn?

 

[Millhouse]

grantland today

guard play + defense = championship

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ncaa-championship-shootaround-2/

we're usually fine at lead guard. problem is that it's really hard satisfy both parts of the equation with our zone. need a big versatile ball handling guard. can't have it all, those guys go to the NBA

louisville and uconn win with short 2nd fiddle guards and still play good defense. we either need to figure out how to play zone with shorter guards or we need to figure out how to get production on offense from big guards (competition for those guards is tough. developing big guards is tough)

 

[MikeSU02]

richard hamilton/khalid el amin
ben gordon/rashad anderson
kemba walker/jeremy lamb
shabazz napier/ryan boatright

We've been close but we haven't really put it together in the backcourt since 03. often have one but not the other

McCroskey, Wright, Harris off and on at guard

I make excuses for Devendorf, I think he was hurt by the front court more. Flynn/Devendorf should've been better.

We either have not enough guards or too many out of position

We've had great teams but we haven't had pairs of guards as good as uconn. Waiters and MCW were great but the 2nd fiddles weren't quite as good (Triche, Scoop, Cooney)

I do agree that our guard tandems (and, really, our full guard rotations) haven't been as dynamic as UConn's over the years.

I think you need to have guards that can push the ball if you need to speed up tempo and be a threat to finish at the rim, but that don't alienate the rest of the team by being a ball stopper.

As much as I enjoyed Ennis, and I think he was awesome, him not being able to push tempo really hurt us (whether by JB's design or Ennis' limitations or a combo of the two). I'm hoping that we get KJ for 2 - 3 years and that Cooney continues to improve. But we really need another ball handler so that we can showcase a lineup with two guards with real dribble penetration abilities.

One of the things Ollie did against Florida was go to a small lineup with three guards earl on, but it seems like we can't do that because of the exposure on one wing of the zone.

With that said, the prospects of having guys like a veteran Cooney, KJ, Malachi, Kid Mamba and/or Franklin Howard are really exciting. There are a lot of combinations that JB or Hop can go with. And that is if we don't fold BJ into the guard rotation.

 

[dasher]

grantland today

guard play + defense = championship

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ncaa-championship-shootaround-2/

we're usually fine at lead guard. problem is that it's really hard satisfy both parts of the equation with our zone. need a big versatile ball handling guard. can't have it all, those guys go to the NBA

louisville and uconn win with short 2nd fiddle guards and still play good defense. we either need to figure out how to play zone with shorter guards or we need to figure out how to get production on offense from big guards (competition for those guards is tough. developing big guards is tough)

Flynn wasn't big. Look, I went 86 years, most of which I wasn't alive for, waiting for the Red Sox to win 1 world series. Now, they have won 3 in 10 years. The lost world series, '67, 75 and '86 they could have won very easily. The ones they won, '03, '07 and 13, they could have lost very easily. The margins are so close. I believe we will have our time. Just need to stay good every year and we are doing that.

 

[MikeSU02]

grantland today

guard play + defense = championship

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ncaa-championship-shootaround-2/

we're usually fine at lead guard. problem is that it's really hard satisfy both parts of the equation with our zone. need a big versatile ball handling guard. can't have it all, those guys go to the NBA

louisville and uconn win with short 2nd fiddle guards and still play good defense. we either need to figure out how to play zone with shorter guards or we need to figure out how to get production on offense from big guards (competition for those guards is tough. developing big guards is tough)

I think we are looking at guys with some height. I think you want a Tyreke Evans type without the baggage that can breakdown defenses with the dribble and use his strength to get to the rim.

I would be amazed if we ever go back to short guards, barring something unforeseen happening.

 

[Alsacs]

Our best seasons we have typically have had 2 guards who can penetrate and be ball handlers.

2013-MCW and Triche
2012-Scoop, Triche, and Waiters
2010- Scoop and Triche
2003- GMac and Edelin
1996- we rode Wallace this is outlier but Sims was solid
1987- Douglas, Monroe, and Triche

This year we had 1 ball handler and guy who could penetrate. Tyler Ennis.

Michael Gbinije is NOT A PG we only have 1 PG on the roster next year. G will be the backup by necessity.

 

[Millhouse]

Flynn wasn't big. Look, I went 86 years, most of which I wasn't alive for, waiting for the Red Sox to win 1 world series. Now, they have won 3 in 10 years. The lost world series, '67, 75 and '86 they could have won very easily. The ones they won, '03, '07 and 13, they could have lost very easily. The margins are so close. I believe we will have our time. Just need to stay good every year and we are doing that.

Flynn didn't win! and he's not the only guard in the backcourt

i think boeheim's formula is to make up for a less versatile big two guard with a great small forward like wallace or melo. we'll see

i envy uconn and how dangerous both guards are with the ball in their hands. our second options make me hold my breath too much

 

[Cusefan0307]

While we are talking about guards can we put to rest the fact you need to have good Kenpom numbers to win a title. All this talk all year how Kenpom is such a good predictor of success, you need to have a top offense, and 2 out of the last 4 years Uconn has destroyed that theory. Just for comparison sake UCONN finished 39th in adjusted offensive efficiency ranking, while we finished 37th. They finished 10th in defense and we were 13th. So in theory there wasn't much difference between Syracuse and Connecticut this year. Does anyone know UCONN's Kenpom ranking before the tournament?

 

[Alsacs]

UConn had 2 guards Boatright and Napier when the shot clock was below 10 could penetrate and create offense for themselves or pass to a teammate who was open due to help defense.

We had 1 guard who could get to the hole, but because we had no shooting threats allowed the defenders to clog the middle and force our guys to shot jump shots. Some of them were open and others were not. Our offense was ISO 1 on 1.

 

[rrlbees]

Our best seasons we have typically have had 2 guards who can penetrate and be ball handlers. 2013-MCW and Triche 2012-Scoop, Triche, and Waiters 2010- Scoop and Triche 2003- GMac and Edelin 1996- we rode Wallace this is outlier but Sims was solid 1987- Douglas, Monroe, and Triche This year we had 1 ball handler and guy who could penetrate. Tyler Ennis. Michael Gbinije is NOT A PG we only have 1 PG on the roster next year. G will be the backup by necessity.

Howard Triche was not a ball handler nor penetrater.

Monroe did not penetrate much at all.

Brandon Triche got blasted all the time for not penetrating more.

 

[MikeSU02]

Howard Triche was not a ball handler nor penetrater.

Monroe did not penetrate much at all.

Brandon Triche got blasted all the time for not penetrating more.

To this day I think BT should have primarily been used as a PG and should have penetrated much more (that's what she said).

I grew a bit frustrated with his play from time to time, but I don't think he ever naturally fit at SG when he was slotted there.

 

[TheCusian]

I didn't say anything about a rivalry they just won the national championship. i'd like to win another. maybe we should pay attention to how teams win titles.

The OP was just comparing the two schools guards without that hypothesis being the main point. Seemed trollish to me.

 

[Alsacs]

Howard Triche was not a ball handler nor penetrater.

Monroe did not penetrate much at all.

Brandon Triche got blasted all the time for not penetrating more.

I went by Monroe's stats.
I am wrong about 87 then. I should change it to our best seasons since 1996 we have had 2 ball handlers/penetraters.

It still doesn't change the fact next year is a rebuilding year since we only have 1 PG on the roster who has played 0 college minutes and most likely only 3 of the 7 significant players back who played last season back.

Brandon Triche may have been blasted, but the fanbase knew he was a 4 yr guy who was solid and was an important role player on a good team, but he could play PG or SG and was valuable because of that. Triche's ability to play both PG and SG allowed us to pretty much have 2 PGs on the floor whenever he played.

 

[TheCusian]

Flynn didn't win! and he's not the only guard in the backcourt i think boeheim's formula is to make up for a less versatile big two guard with a great small forward like wallace or melo. we'll see i envy uconn and how dangerous both guards are with the ball in their hands. our second options make me hold my breath too much

So a guard becomes elite if he wins a NC? Or can a guard be elite and not win? I'd take Flynn in college over about half of the UCONN guards you mentioned originally.

 

[Millhouse]

The OP was just comparing the two schools guards without that hypothesis being the main point. Seemed trollish to me.

i was the OP. they won the national championship last night. I didn't think I needed to mention that. aye yi yi