UNC Postgame Thoughts

[dasher]

Difference imo is that it was completely accidental.

Yes. But I was very surprised it wasn't looked at and would not be upset if they made a call on that. Accident or not, it has to be called.

 

[dasher]

Grayson Allen 2.0

I said last night, I can't stand Ryan almost more than any player that has ever played against Syracuse. And that covers 50 years.

 

[longtimefan]

maybe they changed the rules. used to be intentional gave you free throws and the ball. this rule was initially instituted to try and stop deliberate
fouling at the end of games to stop the clock and send your opponents to the line. by awarding the leading team with free throws AND possession you sped up the games conclusion without a whistle parade to the line. also to prevent the blatant tackling from behind of someone with a clear path to the basket on a sure breakaway .nowadays seldom is the end of game intentional slap foul an actual play on the ball but rather a quick half hearted grab and hold to halt the clock. which is was what the rule tried to stop but failed.
the flagrant foul rule however as i recall was instituted to remove unsportsmanlike behavior by suspending players from competition for that game or the possibly the next for unnecessary violent contact likely to cause injury . especially cheap shot undercuts or blows to the head . quite different scenarios.

The foul you describe in the last paragraph is a "Flagrant 2".

A "Flagrant 1" requires only a failure to play the ball or excessive force in the commission of a foul.

 

[dollarbill44]

bell initiated contact to the head drawing blood. judah had his jersey tugged.
myself i don't see flagrant with either but cadeau actually had to leave the game.
you swing an elbow on a rebound and knock someone in the mouth drawing blood you're getting a flagrant whether accidental or not. which foul was worse ?

Drawing blood from a scratch vs from an elbow are two very different things.

 

[Red Holzman]

I said last night, I can't stand Ryan almost more than any player that has ever played against Syracuse. And that covers 50 years.

Cormac the Malevolent
-for those who remember Carson!

 

[rrlbees]

Yes. But I was very surprised it wasn't looked at and would not be upset if they made a call on that. Accident or not, it has to be called.

A foul was called. However a foul wasn’t called on Ryan when he planted bell.

 

[tbonezone]

Drawing blood from a scratch vs from an elbow are two very different things.

dude had to leave the game. now you rate the fouls. claw to the eyes and face (bell) player had to exit the game . full body tackle in the paint (judah). free throws. downward arm swipe (ryan) awarded throws . back jersey pull (bacon). gets a flagrant. and it looks like judah had some feet movement going on before contact even.strange play where you decide to stop (skid) under the basket ? i ain't saying we didn't earn this win. i'm saying get off the they played dirty sheet. we won. refs didn't screw us. be happy. let's ball.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Didn't UNC turn it over 3x in the last two or whatever minutes?

UNC scored approx 24 points the last 10 minutes of the game

approx 100pts/game pace defense is extremely poor.

SU won. that's great.

but that doesnt mean they played good defense. they didnt. they won despite the defense not becuase of it.

those steals by quadir were exceptional. and saved the game from possibly turning into a loss. UNC still managed 7 points in the last minute of the game - which is on pace for 420pts/game, btw.

those individual plays of brilliance shouldnt excuse the fact that the defense was bad...

if you have to shoot 64% to barely squeek by in a win...it means your defense isnt working.

shooting 64% vs UNC should mean a blowout win. point blank.

i dont think the zone works ...but I predict we are going to see more of it...

a lot more of it.

I just hope the coaches realize that they havent found the "magic formula"

I get it the roster is short now...so maybe zone is the only option.

but unless that same level of offensive efficiency continues...we are unfortunately going to see losses to inferior teams due to wide open shot after wide open shot from opponents slicing through the zone.

IF the same level of offensive efficiency does continue, though, I think this team can go to the Final Four...bc UNC is one of the best defenses in the country and they couldnt do anything to stop the Orange last night. Gigantic if, though, of course.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

What a win!!!!! Thoughts?!

A Cuse win and not having to shovel your neighbor’s driveway? That’s a big day for you!

 

[shu 49]

Brown seems to hit a 3 early in the game and then not shoot or make 3's as much later in the game. It's likely due to him being more tired having to play so many minutes.

Kids got a pretty shot too.

 

[CardiacCuse]

No, they are not.

imagine two NBA teams played each other...with the records of 16-9 and 19-6...at the home of the 16-9 team.

meanwhile the 16-9 team has a better home record than the 19-6 team...(12-1)

who would you expect to win that game?

would you really see those teams as being on different levels of talent???

I think we all get sucked into the narrative a bit much in terms of team rankings ...

I saw two evenly matched teams last night even if one is in the 80s and one is in the top 10 (i think UNC played their average game last night, too...tehy have lost 6 games this year, btw, they arent tarkanians UNLV or anything)

 

[atlanticuse]

The Atlanta area has a lot of SU fans.

last year game was awesome

 

[dollarbill44]

dude had to leave the game. now you rate the fouls. claw to the eyes and face (bell) player had to exit the game . full body tackle in the paint (judah). free throws. downward arm swipe (ryan) awarded throws . back jersey pull (bacon). gets a flagrant. and it looks like judah had some feet movement going on before contact even.strange play where you decide to stop (skid) under the basket ? i ain't saying we didn't earn this win. i'm saying get off the they played dirty sheet. we won. refs didn't screw us. be happy. let's ball.

I think you're confusing me with someone else with your last comment, because i havent made any comments about rough play. Cadeau got scratched near the eye by a finger (the "claw", as you say). Every player who is bleeding has to leave the game to tend to it, regardless of severity. You're making it sound like he E as bleeding profusely, even though only the ref right next to him noticed blood. I thought they would have taken another look at it on replay, but they didn't. You compared it to getting hit in the mouth by a guy swinging elbows. It was nothing like that. That was why I replied.
I'm not sure ranking the fouls does anything. The only one that I think you might be confused about is the Bacot intentional foul. I believe they have to call that a flagrant 1 because grabbing the jersey from behind without any play on the ball is specifically in the rules. I don't think anyone is even debating that it wasn't a hard foul, just an intentional one.
The only hard foul I have an issue with was Bell getting fouled hard from behind on the alley top attempt. The reason I take issue with it is that no foul was called.

 

[Bayside44]

UNC scored approx 24 points the last 10 minutes of the game

approx 100pts/game pace defense is extremely poor.

SU won. that's great.

but that doesnt mean they played good defense. they didnt. they won despite the defense not becuase of it.

those steals by quadir were exceptional. and saved the game from possibly turning into a loss. UNC still managed 7 points in the last minute of the game - which is on pace for 420pts/game, btw.

those individual plays of brilliance shouldnt excuse the fact that the defense was bad...

if you have to shoot 64% to barely squeek by in a win...it means your defense isnt working.

shooting 64% vs UNC should mean a blowout win. point blank.

i dont think the zone works ...but I predict we are going to see more of it...

a lot more of it.

I just hope the coaches realize that they havent found the "magic formula"

I get it the roster is short now...so maybe zone is the only option.

but unless that same level of offensive efficiency continues...we are unfortunately going to see losses to inferior teams due to wide open shot after wide open shot from opponents slicing through the zone.

IF the same level of offensive efficiency does continue, though, I think this team can go to the Final Four...bc UNC is one of the best defenses in the country and they couldnt do anything to stop the Orange last night. Gigantic if, though, of course.

Three possessions in a minute, which is what UNC had, would come out to 120 possessions in a game. UNC averages 74. Your one minute thing is ridiculous even for here.

UNC is a team that has, on paper, everything. Size, depth, wing scoring, strong guard play.

Enjoy the win if you have ability to enjoy something that relates to SU hoops.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Three possessions in a minute, which is what UNC had, would come out to 120 possessions in a game. UNC averages 74. Your one minute thing is ridiculous even for here.

UNC is a team that has, on paper, everything. Size, depth, wing scoring, strong guard play.

Enjoy the win if you have ability to enjoy something that relates to SU hoops.

last 10 minutes of the game UNC was on pace for 96 points

i just hope that the coaches realize that the zone isnt good enough for sustainable success. it really really isnt.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Our 2-3 is way better than our man. Maybe we just caught the heels off guard. Our big guards really choked off their 3 pt. game.

This team has serious potential if we can everyone for another year. That's just not college sports anymore.

If we had 3 or 4 more bodies, our man would be just fine.
We lost guys who were 7-4, 6-11, 6-8 and 6-6 who could have made a much bigger impact than they did. That crippled our man, because most teams could just overpower us inside. That's why Autry had to go back to zone, to at least have bodies in the way for people wanting to get inside.

 

[dasher]

last 10 minutes of the game UNC was on pace for 96 points

i just hope that the coaches realize that the zone isnt good enough for sustainable success. it really really isnt.

Neither is our man to man. We just aren't good enough.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Neither is our man to man. We just aren't good enough.

if any of Hima, Carey, Cuffe or maybe even Westry (?) can step up...maybe the options will be there

but I guess yeah youre right...its a last resort


I feel like the more tape teams get on the zone, the worse it will hold up


the rotations are really really slow...its wide open city for any good team

I shudder to think of what UVa or Duke might do against it

 

[dasher]

if any of Hima, Carey, Cuffe or maybe even Westry (?) can step up...maybe the options will be there

but I guess yeah youre right...its a last resort


I feel like the more tape teams get on the zone, the worse it will hold up


the rotations are really really slow...its wide open city for any good team

I shudder to think of what UVa or Duke might do against it

Shudder to think about what they will do to our man to man when we have Bell and Taylor at the forward positions. Not to mention our guards. I do struggle with the they scored x amount of pts in the last minute kind of talk. First, we out and out let them score on the last possession and I like to look at it at how many pts they scored in 40 minutes. A complete game. Now, here is the thing, we played some good teams this year. And until last night, we have been smacked around. In man. Going in to last night, we only played zone 13% of the time this year. I think we will play man and zone the rest of the year. We need to rest our guys a bit because we only have 6 of them. We also have 4 games where we can play whatever and we still might win. Or lose. These teams aren't the best of the best that we have played.

 

[MGDCuse]

Three possessions in a minute, which is what UNC had, would come out to 120 possessions in a game. UNC averages 74. Your one minute thing is ridiculous even for here.

UNC is a team that has, on paper, everything. Size, depth, wing scoring, strong guard play.

Enjoy the win if you have ability to enjoy something that relates to SU hoops.

We made 5 free throws in the last minute of the game i believe, and UNC made none. Therefore, we were on pace to beat them 200-0. See, his math works in our favor too.

 

[realorange]

I said last night, I can't stand Ryan almost more than any player that has ever played against Syracuse. And that covers 50 years.

Wow! And that would include several Duke players that all of us hated.

 

[SwagSocks]

Sorry if this waa brought up, too many comments to read. But the most underrated play of the game goes to Gmac. Under 4 left, Judah was about to get 10 seconds if not for Gmac waving his arms saying to get it across. Our team had no awareness of the violation. GMAC saved a TO in a huge spot.

 

[MSOrange]

Sorry if this waa brought up, too many comments to read. But the most underrated play of the game goes to Gmac. Under 4 left, Judah was about to get 10 seconds if not for Gmac waving his arms saying to get it across. Our team had no awareness of the violation. GMAC saved a TO in a huge spot.

I noticed that Judah was about to get 10 seconds, but not that GMac waving his arms caused him to get moving at the last second. Good catch.

 

[capeorange]

last 10 minutes of the game UNC was on pace for 96 points

i just hope that the coaches realize that the zone isnt good enough for sustainable success. it really really isnt.

Only a second or 2 was coming off the clock on our possessions towards the end because they were fouling us on every possession, that gave them more possessions and lengthened the game.
I doubt that they have enough players to use that strategy for 40 minutes therefore your 96 points pace won't work...

 

[dasher]

I noticed that Judah was about to get 10 seconds, but not that GMac waving his arms caused him to get moving at the last second. Good catch.

Yes. Gerry was desperately waving him to move forward