USA Lacrosse Preseason Top 20 | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

USA Lacrosse Preseason Top 20

wgdsr said:
agreed, thought they'd be a more regular player in quarters by now. plus, they get half the u-19 team every 4 years, they must have at least some.talent.
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That is good for a laugh!
Mr ACC Homer himself thinking OSU would be a regular player in quarters.
 
Zack80 said:
That is good for a laugh!
Mr ACC Homer himself thinking OSU would be a regular player in quarters.
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why wouldn't they be? maybe not every year, but they have all the resources and they clearly get some players there.

you seem to be getting a little testy as the season approaches? or is that just me? nervous? the acc homer line is pretty funny. i can tell you i don't cheer for *acc teams* unless it looks like uva needs some help late. and that rarely happens but against acc teams as they're generally in conference play. 'cuse is an exception, i have roots there. i'd say lately, teams vs umd might qualify simply because it's a big pelt that trickles down pretty deep for my squad. never duke even in that case, but they don't play.
 
Lax Magazine moves into the top 10,
www.usalaxmagazine.com

2023 NCAA Lacrosse Rankings: No. 10 Rutgers (Men)

Transfer U is ready to follow up on a historic 2022 spring season.
www.usalaxmagazine.com www.usalaxmagazine.com

www.usalaxmagazine.com

2023 NCAA Lacrosse Rankings: No. 9 Penn (Men)

Penn might be as talented as its ever been in Mike Murphy's 14 years in Philly.
www.usalaxmagazine.com www.usalaxmagazine.com

That is a pretty big drop, dropping final four team Rutgers all the way down to #10.

Enemy lines on Penn: "They’re going to be a legitimate final four contender, in my opinion." I have Penn in my final four prediction, on the final four prediction thread.
 
Just wondering if we’re going to do the weekly picks this year ?
 
JeremyCuse said:
Absolutely, also to make things even more interesting it looks like College Lax gambling is finally coming to NY.
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I see that Caesars will let me bet PLL games, but nothing on college yet. Probably games involving NY teams will be excluded.
 
OrangeXtreme said:
I see that Caesars will let me bet PLL games, but nothing on college yet. Probably games involving NY teams will be excluded.
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DK has College Lax minus the NY teams (which does suck because your missing SU, Army, Cornell, Albany etc) but it's great to have everyone else available. Put a couple bets in already.
 
JeremyCuse said:
DK has College Lax minus the NY teams (which does suck because your missing SU, Army, Cornell, Albany etc) but it's great to have everyone else available. Put a couple bets in already.
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While it is extremely tempting, I can’t help but think back to all those not so great weeks of trying to pick lines on here these past few years. May give it a shot, but my pick ‘em performances were a reminder that Vegas knows what’s up and all the knowledge we have doesn’t mean it will be easy money…but I did put a little money on Princeton to win it all since they were getting crazy good odds for their level of talent.
 
DoctahLexus said:
While it is extremely tempting, I can’t help but think back to all those not so great weeks of trying to pick lines on here these past few years. May give it a shot, but my pick ‘em performances were a reminder that Vegas knows what’s up and all the knowledge we have doesn’t mean it will be easy money…but I did put a little money on Princeton to win it all since they were getting crazy good odds for their level of talent.
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Certainly trying to bet 4 games each week would be difficult, but for actual $$ you could pick the one or two games you really like and hopefully cash in. Not having access to the NY teams including SU hurts for sure but there should be a couple of games each week that jump out betting wise.
 
JeremyCuse said:
Certainly trying to bet 4 games each week would be difficult, but for actual $$ you could pick the one or two games you really like and hopefully cash in. Not having access to the NY teams including SU hurts for sure but there should be a couple of games each week that jump out betting wise.
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True true. That’s the thing though the lines they have on DK right now seem pretty tough to crack. Maybe Penn st over Lafayette at -4.5? Overall they seem annoyingly solid.
 
Powellfan said:
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Brutal development for Albany. From a purely lax standpoint Hay is the bigger loss especially when you consider he started to put things together late last year. That said midfield has been an issue for Albany since the Thompson bros era, losing an academic Sr in Fingar and a guy who knows their system inside and out is a terrible blow. I think they have the players to cover Hay at attack especially that young native player people are high on but they don't have a replacement for Fingar.
 
DoctahLexus said:
True true. That’s the thing though the lines they have on DK right now seem pretty tough to crack. Maybe Penn st over Lafayette at -4.5? Overall they seem annoyingly solid.
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Ya nothing huge jumped out. I do like the under in OSU vs Air Force
 
The problem with the poll is "you think you know about a team" until you really dive deep into what that team is bringing back. I get a vote in the poll and BUTCHERED MINE. It's posted on my website (I won't share here as I'm not a filthy spammer), but how I voted with some rationale behind it...

#1 Virginia
I tried mixing "rewarding a team for last season along with what do they actually have coming back". UVA had one slip up last year and had to play Maryland twice, no harm no foul. They bring back just about everyone from last year and their green goalie won't be so green with almost the entire defense returning, same with offense. And adding McConvey is a HUGE pickup for the cavs.

#2 Maryland
I wanted to start them at one out of rewarding them for last year, but they lost their top 5 scorers from last year, a starting pole, all 4 ssdm's and they were a huge part of their defense and transition last year. That's just too much to ignore. They'll figure it out I'm sure, but I think the smart money is on UVA.

#3 Cornell
This one I regret. They lost everyone on defense other than Adler. If Ierlan plays the way he did their LAST 4 GAMES, aka the NCAA tournament, they'll probably get back to the quarters, but their defense by seasons end was the reason they made it to the finals and held MD to their lowest output of the season. That defense is going to be YOUNG. Offensively they'll be great though, so it may offset.

#4 Princeton
I'd drop them to #7 if I could do it again. Like Cornell they lost a lot on the defensive side of the ball including an AA caliber keeper.

#5 Georgetown, I'd bump Gtown to #3 and Cornell and Princeton back if I could do it again. What they gained in the portal offensively is gross. Dordevic, Solomon, Kelly and Minicus. But they did lose an all american close defender and all american goalie.

#6 Notre Dame, I'm not quite as high on Notre Dame as others. Will Jake Taylor be back at attack? If not, who will fill in? The midfield has weapons, Dobson is solid as hell, but they can't afford ANY SLIP UPS in terms of losses because of their moronic 12 game schedule. They play either "killers" or "pansies" and there is no in-between.

#7 Rutgers, #8 Duke, #9 Yale, #10 Penn, #11 Ohio State
I probably have this wrong but the thing is, all of these teams could get put in any order here. Rutgers lost a lot to graduation, but once again "plugged a couple of holes via the portal". Duke is just short of being a quarterfinals team and if "a group of guys can gell offensively" they'll be fine. They have talent, they just haven't played well together in a consistent manner game in and game out. Ohio State I should probably have at #9 or #10. who knows with this group.

#12 Delaware, #13 Boston U., #14 Denver, #15 Harvard
I originally had Denver at #12 and Harvard at #13 with Delaware and Boston U behind them. I changed that by the time I submitted my poll because the truth is, Delaware and Boston U. both bring back their ENTIRE SQUADS from a year ago. Both have 3 attack that put up serious points, solid mids, senior laden defenses and returning keepers. The reality, if Denver remains in the top 20 by seasons end I'd be surprised and if they do it will only be because like some other teams, they will lose the tough non-conference games, but they'll beat most of the other cupcakes they play. UTAH COULD TAKE THEM OUT IN WEEK ONE. Harvard too lost way too much talent and will have a hard time with their schedule staying in the top 20. But in their case I reward them for last season in this first poll. FOR DENVER, I just reward them for being consistent but if they lose to Utah or play a really close game, I'll drop them quickly.

#16 Jax, #17 UNC, #18, Richmond, #19 Army, #20 Navy
I think Jax could be top 15, but I want to see how the new guys on defense look first. Their offense will be better this year than last year and I think they will probably take out Hop this upcoming weekend. UNC I agree, probably will be the basement of the ACC this year. I don't even know why I have them here other than, Cuse needs to earn this spot from them after going 4-10 last year. I think Cuse is legit a top 20 team and from my understanding THEY WERE #21 I think Foy said in their podcast. I had them as my first team out and I saw other media members had them as high as #15. That might not be far off but they have to prove it.

Army & Navy, I never front on the service academies. Navy has some killer mids. Army probably doesn't deserve the spot as losing Nichtern's 100 points is brutal and I question if they have the talent. The Patriot league will be tough as usual and I think they may drop to middle of the pack.

I did leave St Joe's out of the mix and I think that was a mistake. I probably should have bounced maybe a Harvard or a Denver, maybe even UNC to plug Saint Joe's in at #20.

But that was my rationale and I ADMIT I WAS WRONG IN A LOT OF CASES and will correct as we see teams play.
 
Notre Dame actually has a 13 game schedule this year:
und.com

Men's Lacrosse

The Official Athletic Site of The Fighting Irish. The most comprehensive coverage of Notre Dame Men’s Lacrosse on the web with highlights, scores, game summaries, and rosters. Powered by WMT Digital.
und.com und.com
At the moment, I would probably qualify Syracuse, UNC (twice), and Michigan as in-between teams.
 
LaxFactor said:
Harvard too lost way too much talent and will have a hard time with their schedule staying in the top 20. But in their case I reward them for last season in this first poll.
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Thanks so much for posting this. With the lack of coverage in the lacrosse world I'd love for more media members to post their polls and their reasoning.

I would push back against your analysis of Harvard, they lost their second leading scorer Madronic and their goalie, but that is about it. They also relied on a ton of freshmen last year and made the Tournament (whether or not they deserved it is another matter). They could be a real sleeper team this year.
 
LaxFactor said:
The problem with the poll is "you think you know about a team" until you really dive deep into what that team is bringing back. I get a vote in the poll and BUTCHERED MINE. It's posted on my website (I won't share here as I'm not a filthy spammer), but how I voted with some rationale behind it...

#1 Virginia
I tried mixing "rewarding a team for last season along with what do they actually have coming back". UVA had one slip up last year and had to play Maryland twice, no harm no foul. They bring back just about everyone from last year and their green goalie won't be so green with almost the entire defense returning, same with offense. And adding McConvey is a HUGE pickup for the cavs.

#2 Maryland
I wanted to start them at one out of rewarding them for last year, but they lost their top 5 scorers from last year, a starting pole, all 4 ssdm's and they were a huge part of their defense and transition last year. That's just too much to ignore. They'll figure it out I'm sure, but I think the smart money is on UVA.

#3 Cornell
This one I regret. They lost everyone on defense other than Adler. If Ierlan plays the way he did their LAST 4 GAMES, aka the NCAA tournament, they'll probably get back to the quarters, but their defense by seasons end was the reason they made it to the finals and held MD to their lowest output of the season. That defense is going to be YOUNG. Offensively they'll be great though, so it may offset.

#4 Princeton
I'd drop them to #7 if I could do it again. Like Cornell they lost a lot on the defensive side of the ball including an AA caliber keeper.

#5 Georgetown, I'd bump Gtown to #3 and Cornell and Princeton back if I could do it again. What they gained in the portal offensively is gross. Dordevic, Solomon, Kelly and Minicus. But they did lose an all american close defender and all american goalie.

#6 Notre Dame, I'm not quite as high on Notre Dame as others. Will Jake Taylor be back at attack? If not, who will fill in? The midfield has weapons, Dobson is solid as hell, but they can't afford ANY SLIP UPS in terms of losses because of their moronic 12 game schedule. They play either "killers" or "pansies" and there is no in-between.

#7 Rutgers, #8 Duke, #9 Yale, #10 Penn, #11 Ohio State
I probably have this wrong but the thing is, all of these teams could get put in any order here. Rutgers lost a lot to graduation, but once again "plugged a couple of holes via the portal". Duke is just short of being a quarterfinals team and if "a group of guys can gell offensively" they'll be fine. They have talent, they just haven't played well together in a consistent manner game in and game out. Ohio State I should probably have at #9 or #10. who knows with this group.

#12 Delaware, #13 Boston U., #14 Denver, #15 Harvard
I originally had Denver at #12 and Harvard at #13 with Delaware and Boston U behind them. I changed that by the time I submitted my poll because the truth is, Delaware and Boston U. both bring back their ENTIRE SQUADS from a year ago. Both have 3 attack that put up serious points, solid mids, senior laden defenses and returning keepers. The reality, if Denver remains in the top 20 by seasons end I'd be surprised and if they do it will only be because like some other teams, they will lose the tough non-conference games, but they'll beat most of the other cupcakes they play. UTAH COULD TAKE THEM OUT IN WEEK ONE. Harvard too lost way too much talent and will have a hard time with their schedule staying in the top 20. But in their case I reward them for last season in this first poll. FOR DENVER, I just reward them for being consistent but if they lose to Utah or play a really close game, I'll drop them quickly.

#16 Jax, #17 UNC, #18, Richmond, #19 Army, #20 Navy
I think Jax could be top 15, but I want to see how the new guys on defense look first. Their offense will be better this year than last year and I think they will probably take out Hop this upcoming weekend. UNC I agree, probably will be the basement of the ACC this year. I don't even know why I have them here other than, Cuse needs to earn this spot from them after going 4-10 last year. I think Cuse is legit a top 20 team and from my understanding THEY WERE #21 I think Foy said in their podcast. I had them as my first team out and I saw other media members had them as high as #15. That might not be far off but they have to prove it.

Army & Navy, I never front on the service academies. Navy has some killer mids. Army probably doesn't deserve the spot as losing Nichtern's 100 points is brutal and I question if they have the talent. The Patriot league will be tough as usual and I think they may drop to middle of the pack.

I did leave St Joe's out of the mix and I think that was a mistake. I probably should have bounced maybe a Harvard or a Denver, maybe even UNC to plug Saint Joe's in at #20.

But that was my rationale and I ADMIT I WAS WRONG IN A LOT OF CASES and will correct as we see teams play.
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thanks. really, no one has any idea.
some things:
- adler himself makes up for alot, and a solid goalie. both they and p'ton i suspect have capable replacements on the roster.
- g'town lost an absolute s***load? 6! all americans, including 2 1sts and a 3rd. solomon and kelly probably did the absolute minimum in production to stay on the field, and evidently not even that. plus, there's the hoyas nc$$ foibles to date.
- i've never heard any comment from selectors on nd's not having enough games, and they've done it forever. and their ooc schedule looks very good, although missing an ivy. their problem will be having a non-taylor offense until at least march if at all, and that version was bad last year.
- harvard lost madronic and a 50% goalie and 40% fo guy. the latter 2 seem like no problem, did they lose anyone else? if not, they seem prime to keep rising even tho it is harvard and the ivy's probably never been tougher to get wins.
- army's defense i suspect will be very good if they can win fo's.
- will rutgers win any top games? they've gotten away without them and a bid the last 2 years, but i'm skeptical about a hat trick without them.
- boston might need to either win one of their ivy games or win the pl tourney again. and with 4 or 5 candidates and a one-off tourney, not great odds.
- st joe's i agree has a lot back, including importantly att and fogo. might be enough even in a new conference.
- delaware could be very good. good offense and a ton back, good defense and grant's an animal.
 
Powellfan said:
Thanks so much for posting this. With the lack of coverage in the lacrosse world I'd love for more media members to post their polls and their reasoning.

I would push back against your analysis of Harvard, they lost their second leading scorer Madronic and their goalie, but that is about it. They also relied on a ton of freshmen last year and made the Tournament (whether or not they deserved it is another matter). They could be a real sleeper team this year.
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I’d love to know the rationale for polls at all. They’re meaningless.
 
www.usalaxmagazine.com

2023 NCAA Lacrosse Rankings: No. 8 Yale (Men)

Yale has the offense, but can the defense keep the Bulldogs in games?
www.usalaxmagazine.com www.usalaxmagazine.com

www.usalaxmagazine.com

2023 NCAA Lacrosse Rankings: No. 7 Duke (Men)

"Duke's Duke," one rival coach said. Does that mean a return to the NCAA tournament?
www.usalaxmagazine.com www.usalaxmagazine.com

It will be interesting to see if Duke can fill out their offense well. Goalie looks like a question mark. The article doesn't mention the addition of FO man Zusi from Penn. FOs could make it hard for Syracuse to upend Duke.
 
NazLax30 said:
To what end?
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End? I tend to view Preseason Rankings as more of a beginning. Somewhat analogous to a prior distribution in Bayesian Statistics.
 
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