USA Lacrosse Preseason Top 20 | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

USA Lacrosse Preseason Top 20

My preseason rankings
I was going to drop UMd down for losing Malever in the fall, but now they have Trader playing to shore up the ssdms.
1) Maryland
2) Cornell
3) Virginia
4) Georgetown
5) Princeton
6) Yale
7) Penn
8) Ohio State
9) Notre Dame
10) Rutgers
11) Duke
12) Delaware
13) Harvard
14) Brown
15) Penn State
16) Jacksonville
17) Denver
18) Boston U
19) Syracuse
20) Michigan
Close by: St.Joseph's, Richmond, UNC
 
Zack80 said:
My preseason rankings
I was going to drop UMd down for losing Malever in the fall, but now they have Trader playing to shore up the ssdms.
1) Maryland
2) Cornell
3) Virginia
4) Georgetown
5) Princeton
6) Yale
7) Penn
8) Ohio State
9) Notre Dame
10) Rutgers
11) Duke
12) Delaware
13) Harvard
14) Brown
15) Penn State
16) Jacksonville
17) Denver
18) Boston U
19) Syracuse
20) Michigan
Close by: St.Joseph's, Richmond, UNC
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looks good. g'town is a tough sell for me. also don't like tosu, penn st michigan, denver in those spots. and not cuse until proven otherwise.
 
wgdsr said:
looks good. g'town is a tough sell for me. also don't like tosu, penn st michigan, denver in those spots. and not cuse until proven otherwise.
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Putting Michigan at #20 is somewhat analogous to moving UVa up in the rankings. Some having moved UVa up to #1 even. Michigan returns almost everyone. They also get Bryce Clay back from being injured last season.
I'm optimistic about Syracuse's young attackmen, and this year Gait has brought in some quality transfers.
 
Zack80 said:
Putting Michigan at #20 is somewhat analogous to moving UVa up in the rankings. Some having moved UVa up to #1 even. Michigan returns almost everyone. They also get Bryce Clay back from being injured last season.
I'm optimistic about Syracuse's young attackmen, and this year Gait has brought in some quality transfers.
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michigan had exactly one win that you'd tell your friends about. you've been with them for years, and i will say you (and the preseason polls) have to be right one of these times.

uva seems to perform best when they're #5 preseason, i'd take that. 2 for 2.

i'm turrible at guessing and this year seems wide open. i do think patriot league makes a comeback and places 2-3 teams in the top 20, with one available for at large consideration.
 
wgdsr said:
michigan had exactly one win that you'd tell your friends about. you've been with them for years, and i will say you (and the preseason polls) have to be right one of these times.
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That one win was fairly impressive beating Delaware 18-8. Most of Michigan's Big Ten losses were by small margins including losing to Rutgers 12-13. In the end, I am ranking Michigan at #20 not top 10.

Virginia's schedule last year was not exactly loaded with impressive wins either.
 
Zack80 said:
That one win was fairly impressive beating Delaware 18-8. Most of Michigan's Big Ten losses were by small margins including losing to Rutgers 12-13. In the end, I am ranking Michigan at #20 not top 10.

Virginia's schedule last year was not exactly loaded with impressive wins either.
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that's normally good in horseshoes and shampoo selling. by that measure, i'd expect stony and loyola and penn st in the others receiving votes. penn st i guess is @ top 15.

uva's sked was charmin last year, and the richmond loss put them closer to being left out than people realize. looks like they want to be part of the b1g this year. and they get michigan! guess we'll see what's what with the wolverines vs hoos!
 
Princeton is next up in lax magazine's reviews:
www.usalaxmagazine.com

2023 NCAA Lacrosse Rankings: No. 5 Princeton (Men)

The Tigers have to fill a goalie void and a spot on attack, but they appear loaded.
www.usalaxmagazine.com www.usalaxmagazine.com

I dropped Princeton from 4 to 5 in my rankings due to the fact that they have lost a lot of the defense to go with their top attackman Chris Brown.
 
wgdsr said:
that's normally good in horseshoes and shampoo selling. by that measure, i'd expect stony and loyola and penn st in the others receiving votes. penn st i guess is @ top 15.

uva's sked was charmin last year, and the richmond loss put them closer to being left out than people realize. looks like they want to be part of the b1g this year. and they get michigan! guess we'll see what's what with the wolverines vs hoos!
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Even with my ranking Michigan at #20, they are still way below UVa at #3, and the game is at UVa. I guess if UVa won by 10 or more, it would make my preseason ranking of #20 for Michigan look questionable. On the other hand, if Michigan keeps it close or wins it it would support the ranking.

My PSU pick is a bit of an under-the-radar pick. Last year, they had a lot of injuries. I wouldn't have had them in the top 20 going into last year as they looked a little short on the offense and had a face-off question mark. Then they lost their top attackman, TJ Malone (43 points in 11 games in 2021) to injury. Further another another one of their better offensive players, Greg Traynor, missed about half the season (17 pts in 6 games). PSU had a team .430 FO pct last year.

TJ Malone and Traynor are back going into this year. Will Peden had a decent freshman year with 11g-22a. PSU brings in a 5-star attack recruit Matt Lazzaro. PSU also brings in a transfer Kevin Winkoff, who scored 55pts for Binghamton last year. PSU got nice contributions from a number of other players last year: Mac Costin, Jeb Brenfleck, Ethan Long, ... . Ethan Long scoring 6g, 12a, 18 points at the midfield in 10 games in his freshman year last year looks particularly positive. So I see a major jump in offensive potential, and last year's woes have lead to good depth on the offense going into this year.

At Face-off, PSU returns their top face-off man from last year, Hudson Bohm, who had a .465 pct as a freshman and adds transfer Chase Mullins, who was considered the top face-off recruit in 2021 recruit rankings. Hard to know how Mullins will do as he was injured last year, but there is the potential for a major improvement at face-offs for PSU.
 
Zack80 said:
Even with my ranking Michigan at #20, they are still way below UVa at #3, and the game is at UVa. I guess if UVa won by 10 or more, it would make my preseason ranking of #20 for Michigan look questionable. On the other hand, if Michigan keeps it close or wins it it would support the ranking.

My PSU pick is a bit of an under-the-radar pick. Last year, they had a lot of injuries. I wouldn't have had them in the top 20 going into last year as they looked a little short on the offense and had a face-off question mark. Then they lost their top attackman, TJ Malone (43 points in 11 games in 2021) to injury. Further another another one of their better offensive players, Greg Traynor, missed about half the season (17 pts in 6 games). PSU had a team .430 FO pct last year.

TJ Malone and Traynor are back going into this year. Will Peden had a decent freshman year with 11g-22a. PSU brings in a 5-star attack recruit Matt Lazzaro. PSU also brings in a transfer Kevin Winkoff, who scored 55pts for Binghamton last year. PSU got nice contributions from a number of other players last year: Mac Costin, Jeb Brenfleck, Ethan Long, ... . Ethan Long scoring 6g, 12a, 18 points at the midfield in 10 games in his freshman year last year looks particularly positive. So I see a major jump in offensive potential, and last year's woes have lead to good depth on the offense going into this year.

At Face-off, PSU returns their top face-off man from last year, Hudson Bohm, who had a .465 pct as a freshman and adds transfer Chase Mullins, who was considered the top face-off recruit in 2021 recruit rankings. Hard to know how Mullins will do as he was injured last year, but there is the potential for a major improvement at face-offs for PSU.
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i honestly probably haven't watched 120 minutes over 6 games of michigan in toto since they became div 1. mostly because they've been games where they looked either bad or boring for those brief stretches. hope springs eternal there, and i'll probably boost that # considerably in a few weeks.

pa st probably won't be down for long. but i expect a lot of beating up on each other south of maryland in the b1g. if so, they best be lights out ooc.
 
wgdsr said:
i honestly probably haven't watched 120 minutes over 6 games of michigan in toto since they became div 1. mostly because they've been games where they looked either bad or boring for those brief stretches. hope springs eternal there, and i'll probably boost that # considerably in a few weeks.

pa st probably won't be down for long. but i expect a lot of beating up on each other south of maryland in the b1g. if so, they best be lights out ooc.
Expand...
One of the interesting things I was noticing with Michigan was that while they really padded their offensive stats with the early creampuffs, their attack did keep scoring (although at a lower rate). In their last 10 games, Zawada and Boehm each scored 37 points, and Cohen had 34 points. The problem was the midfield in the last 10 games: Bonomi 13 points, Aronson 12 points, Mulholland 11 points. Michigan did get a little extra from midfielder Justin Brown, who had 10 points in Michigan's last 4 games.
 
Surprised it’s so low, just making the over would be a disaster of a season.

 
Powellfan said:
Surprised it’s so low, just making the over would be a disaster of a season.

Expand...
Well at least it is just a model like he says. Wonder what the system is for lost and gained players as that seems like it would be the toughest thing to calculate, with many players replaced by unknowns. You can bet that the main reason by far for that number is us having one of the least efficient defenses in the nation last year and the least efficient man down unit by any metric. Frankly, if the defense looks like it did last season then I would take the under on this. You put last years D efficiency with this years fogo unit and it will be ugly as hell this year.

I guess it is encouraging to see the optimism from some of the fans here this year, along with a surprising amount of neutral lax fans confident in us covering against UVM, but I just can't get over how terrible we looked on D for most of the season and how important Phaup was for all of it. I have some hope and think this team has a high ceiling, but can't ignore that the floor for this team is low low low. Petro has to prove he is not our biggest problem.
 
The D played well last week vs a pretty good Michigan offense. 2nd yr in the system and a few new players along with a better goalie and the D can definitely be improved. Now the offense moving the ball looking for good shots will be fun to watch and Spallina will be a star All American as a freshman I truly believe. Look what CJ Kirst did for Cornell last yr. I'm not comparing they have a better team but this team has talented players especially on offense.
Face offs could be the biggest issue but maybe with a 3 man group these guys really compete out there fighting for the job. It's not gonna be great this yr at the dot but if they can at least stay in the high 40s then this team will be much better then what all these outsiders think. Some of these freshman seem more ready then most to contribute this yr. The transfers are solid vets.
No reason this team shouldnt win all 6 OOC mid major games and then definitely can win the OOC game vs Hopkins. Maryland and Princeton would be a miracle lol. Now they should be able to split with NC and maybe even take both games. Duke and and Virginia might take a miracle too at least with Virginia. Last week was a good start vs a pretty good Michigan team and again everyone thinks the D will be terrible but they played well vs a talented Michigan offense. They improved SSDM and Goalie with the portal. U can't have a good defense without solid SSDM and Goalie play u just can't. Even if some aren't sold on Will Mark he's still a guarantee improvement from last yr. He's way more experienced and talented so will definitely be an upgrade. U know I believe he's gonna be a top goalie in the country but time will tell with that.
I know this team will go over 5.5 wins and could even come close to doubling it. Spallina was nasty in the fall scrimmages and I heard he had something like 4 goals and 3 assist vs Michigan last week in a little more then a half. This kid is ready to dominate like he was ready in 8th and 9th grade. He's used to playing with older guys from school and club leagues. He is the real deal. Spallina, Hiltz, Simmons, Birtwhistle, Kirst, Finn Thompson might be ridiculous this yr too and then the rest of the freshman. The offense is gonna be legit and the D will be solid like they were last week vs Michigan. It's all talk but time will tell. Like Gait said this team got smacked last yr vs Michigan. This yr they beat 'em pretty good and held the offense in check.
Maybe the Fogos suprise us and hold there own. I do like how scrappy Richuisa is when I watched some of his tape from last yr. Hopefully he got a little stronger and keeps working hard. He can improve as the season goes.
 
DoctahLexus said:
Well at least it is just a model like he says. Wonder what the system is for lost and gained players as that seems like it would be the toughest thing to calculate, with many players replaced by unknowns. You can bet that the main reason by far for that number is us having one of the least efficient defenses in the nation last year and the least efficient man down unit by any metric. Frankly, if the defense looks like it did last season then I would take the under on this. You put last years D efficiency with this years fogo unit and it will be ugly as hell this year.

I guess it is encouraging to see the optimism from some of the fans here this year, along with a surprising amount of neutral lax fans confident in us covering against UVM, but I just can't get over how terrible we looked on D for most of the season and how important Phaup was for all of it. I have some hope and think this team has a high ceiling, but can't ignore that the floor for this team is low low low. Petro has to prove he is not our biggest problem.
Expand...
I don't think Petro is a problem at all. The man knows defense better then most. His defense fell off at the end at Hopkins but so did the talent he had. Hopkins don't have the greatest facilities and don't have a big time D 1 football program. Kids started choosing other programs that have more for them besides Lacrosses. Petro didn't forget Defense and how to coach it. He had the worst goalie group not only on the ACC but maybe all of D 1 last yr. Lol I'm sorry Gavin was pitiful he couldn't save anything. He barerly played at Virginia and never would. That's why they got a talented freshman and was starting him. They knew Gavin wasn't good. At SSDM only Aviles was solid. Rice is athletic and fast but last yr he was out of position a lot and not used to playing defense. He should be better this yr with more experience. The rest were not athletic enough and didn't have the footwork. Either u can play defense of u can't. If u can play good D u usually can in any sport. I played football when I was younger and was very good defensively. I could play any other sport and D up anyone. Couldn't shoot a basketball but could cover the best guy on the court. This yr Aviles and Rice should be solid then Murphy u will see is very solid and has that D ability as he was a top LB on HS and RB. Those 3 will be very good SSDMs this yr and maybe the freshman too. Goalie will be much improved so I almost guarantee the D will be better and Petro is not an issue at all the man knows defense. He just didn't have the talent in the two most important positions on defense which is Goalie and SSDM. The goal of every teams offense is to get matchups with shortys so if ur weak there then ur getting smoked and especially with terrible goalie play. The D played well last week vs Michigan and will play well tomo. As the season goes it will keep improving. Watch u guys who don't believe will see. This team is gonna be very competitive this yr.
 
AD31 said:
The D played well last week vs a pretty good Michigan offense. 2nd yr in the system and a few new players along with a better goalie and the D can definitely be improved. Now the offense moving the ball looking for good shots will be fun to watch and Spallina will be a star All American as a freshman I truly believe. Look what CJ Kirst did for Cornell last yr. I'm not comparing they have a better team but this team has talented players especially on offense.
Face offs could be the biggest issue but maybe with a 3 man group these guys really compete out there fighting for the job. It's not gonna be great this yr at the dot but if they can at least stay in the high 40s then this team will be much better then what all these outsiders think. Some of these freshman seem more ready then most to contribute this yr. The transfers are solid vets.
No reason this team shouldnt win all 6 OOC mid major games and then definitely can win the OOC game vs Hopkins. Maryland and Princeton would be a miracle lol. Now they should be able to split with NC and maybe even take both games. Duke and and Virginia might take a miracle too at least with Virginia. Last week was a good start vs a pretty good Michigan team and again everyone thinks the D will be terrible but they played well vs a talented Michigan offense. They improved SSDM and Goalie with the portal. U can't have a good defense without solid SSDM and Goalie play u just can't. Even if some aren't sold on Will Mark he's still a guarantee improvement from last yr. He's way more experienced and talented so will definitely be an upgrade. U know I believe he's gonna be a top goalie in the country but time will tell with that.
I know this team will go over 5.5 wins and could even come close to doubling it. Spallina was nasty in the fall scrimmages and I heard he had something like 4 goals and 3 assist vs Michigan last week in a little more then a half. This kid is ready to dominate like he was ready in 8th and 9th grade. He's used to playing with older guys from school and club leagues. He is the real deal. Spallina, Hiltz, Simmons, Birtwhistle, Kirst, Finn Thompson might be ridiculous this yr too and then the rest of the freshman. The offense is gonna be legit and the D will be solid like they were last week vs Michigan. It's all talk but time will tell. Like Gait said this team got smacked last yr vs Michigan. This yr they beat 'em pretty good and held the offense in check.
Maybe the Fogos suprise us and hold there own. I do like how scrappy Richuisa is when I watched some of his tape from last yr. Hopefully he got a little stronger and keeps working hard. He can improve as the season goes.
Expand...

Love your detailed takes AD but you gotta help us out and use some paragraphs. My eyes glazed over trying to read all that.
 
Lol I know I promised u a while back. I go on rants haha. I will try for now on I promise. I know u agree tho about the defense being improved. U seem to know about a lot of the transfers and feel good about them. Will Mark is very talented. Maybe he won't be an All American thsi yr in the ACC but he's gonna at least be an improvement and hold his own in the cage. I think he will raise his level of play but only time will tell. He will at least be solid and make saves that last yr the goalies just didn't make.
 
AD31 said:
Lol I know I promised u a while back. I go on rants haha. I will try for now on I promise. I know u agree tho about the defense being improved. U seem to know about a lot of the transfers and feel good about them. Will Mark is very talented. Maybe he won't be an All American thsi yr in the ACC but he's gonna at least be an improvement and hold his own in the cage. I think he will raise his level of play but only time will tell. He will at least be solid and make saves that last yr the goalies just didn't make.
Expand...

Your doing great work, your detailed thoughts are certainly welcome here.
 
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