USMNT soccer team thread
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Forza Azzurri
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Great find.
Couple of sentences that really stuck out:
I had a front row seat to the explosion of the pay-for-play academies (on the girls side, not the boys). Those two above statements are so true and are why the pay-for-play Academy is the worst thing that has happened to American soccer.
Pay-for-play is about two things: Paying and winning.
Most parents know little about the game so they have no idea whether the training is good or not.
They are, however, paying a lot of money so they want results. How do they judge whether the 3K ni tuition (plus the up to 10K on tournaments, travel etc..) is well spent?
Easy. Does the team win? If I'm spending 3K to have my kid on a team and I pay 5K more to go to Disney over Xmas break, the team better not lose all their games.
Look at any youth soccer message board> It's all about winning and losing. The Academies know this (the top-tier pay-for-play, second tier pay-for-play, their tier pay-for-play etc...).
Best way to move up the ladder? Start winning. Winning attracts kids (well, actually it attracts parents of kids). Getting better kids means more winning which attracts still better kids (what a virtuous cycle!!!!).
It also means mucho more dinero...Academies quickly realized that parents were willing to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for their kid to play on a C or a D team - just so they could say their kid plays "Academy" soccer. The more you win, the more kids your attract, the more teams you can field in an age group, the more money you collect. (Another virtuous cycle!!!!)
All good, right?
The problem is that playing to win and really learning how to play are not compatible. Learning how to play the ball out of the back, through the midfield and into the final third is a really painful process - replete with ill-advised turnovers in bad areas of the field which lead to chances and goals for the opposing team. This leads to...losing games which leads to frustrated parents who hate spending all that money to watch all that losing. So they look to move their kid to a team where all this losing isn't happening. That is bad for business.
Putting your fastest kid up front and then punting the ball or "booting it" (one of my favorite parental terms) is a much better formula for winning games, especially at younger ages.
As long as parents are writing the checks, winning will take precedence over development and nothing will change.
One non-sequitur:
I could write chapters about all the crap I've seen go on in the pay-for-play worldf but two of the worst are the following:
A second-tier pay-for-play youth academy who put, as part of their mission statement on their web site, that, "By U-10 (fourth grade), soccer should be the second most important thing in your life." No pressure there, eh?
A top-tier pay-for-play academy whose top U10 girls team played 45 games between Labor Day and Thanksgiving. Do the math. The coach should have been arrested for child abuse. The team played the entire EPL season plus the Champions League Group stage in less than three months. Now, that's development, baby!!!!
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DeGrozz
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Forza, just curious (and I may have missed this) but what years did you see this going on, and (if you were there for the turnover) with the USSDA's movement into controlling the elite youth academies, have you seen any positive changes? I thought one of the most interesting/smartest things they did was move to a 10 month game schedule and only allow 20 or 30 games per team in that timeframe. It shifted the focus from games, like you saw in your experience, to practices.
To be fair though, I don't know if the USSDA program has fully been implemented on the girls side of the game yet.
Forza Azzurri
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2010-2014...
In 2014, my daughter had to make a choice - continue to play other sports but leave her high-level team or devote herself to soccer. She chose other sports so she dropped down to a lower-level club team who was not so demanding and allowed her to play other sports. Once that happened, the whole "high-level" soccer scene was left behind and I stopped paying attention.
I agree wtih you that the DA move is a good one. I hope the DA program is successful although I still think it won't fully work until none of the participating academies are pay-to-play.
I will freely admit that I never, ever thought that the US would fail to qualify for the World Cup again in my lifetime.
I bet that Nike and Fox Sports thought the same.
I am wondering if soccer is important enough, economically, to US sponsors that they would consider funding some of these academies. You are going to need a funding source other than MLS teams to bracket the entire country.
DeGrozz
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Nice to hear:
‘I want to push myself’: Bill Hamid won’t return to D.C. United
Hamid is one of 3 or 4 American keepers in the MLS that I wholeheartedly believe is a significantly better shot stoppers than Howard is right now. Developing other aspects of his game will be nice for the US.
‘I want to push myself’: Bill Hamid won’t return to D.C. United
Hamid is one of 3 or 4 American keepers in the MLS that I wholeheartedly believe is a significantly better shot stoppers than Howard is right now. Developing other aspects of his game will be nice for the US.
CUSU
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Hopefully he can stay healthy
DeGrozz
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CUSU
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Yea we'll see.. Maybe he can work his way into another league if he proves he can stay healthy
If Rob Stone is saying that he is an idiot... Pep goes to teams with a huge abundance of talent in place. We don't have the talent to play Pep's game and he's not going to have the patience for our lack of talent players. Now if we told Pep you have a blank check to rebuild soccer in the US from ground up I'd hire him in a nanosecond.
The reality is that the US's biggest problem is that its best players, the core of the team came to MLS to play in environments where they weren't challenged and lost their edge. At its best the USMNT was filled with players playing at the peak of their careers in Europe... the one big outlier was probably Landon Donovan who did play most of his career in MLS but he was such a transcendent challenge that it didn't matter if he played in a challenging environment day in/day out because he was THAT good. I have always wondered how Landon's career would have turned out if he had gone to Europe but the reality is I don't think he could have done any better for the USMNT team than he did because of his amazing talent. I loath Jurgen Klinsmann with a passion that I usually save for the Patriots and Duke basketball but he was spot on in his effort to unearth talent playing in Europe. BUT I think Jurgen's efforts showed that while European players are great, without the passion for the flag and the shield they are playing for they are not going to be as good as the MLS players born and raised in this country. I'm not going to say all foreign born US players had this issue as I'd take Jermaine Jones and Brooks any day of the week, I did feel something was missing with Fab and Chandler and Green and others.
Long story short US players need to start challenging themselves and going to Europe, the more kids we can get into academies in Europe the better. Our core HAS to be made up of US born players playing the peak of their careers in Europe again... sorry MLS. The good news is that these next generations of kids and youth teams are made up of exactly those type of players. We also need to get younger... as a lot of people say, soccer is a young man's game. We got over reliant on the same players who aged out and came back to MLS to really enjoy their latter playing days back home as they deserve to as evidenced by the fact we have basically an entire missing generation of players in their mid to late 20s. This hole needs to be filled asap and we need to ensure that it never gets created again.
DeGrozz
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Wynalda, Gulati, and Donovan.
If that's the lineup for USSF president, I'd love for there to be televised debates.
Wynalda would be the brash, abrasive Donald Trump.
Gulati would be the intelligent with tons of skeletons in the closet Hillary Clinton.
Donovan would be the awkward and turtle loving JEB! Bush.
If we could get Klinnsman to come in and be Bernie 'we have to do it like they do in Europe' Sanders, that's an excellent HBO documentary series right there...
If that's the lineup for USSF president, I'd love for there to be televised debates.
Wynalda would be the brash, abrasive Donald Trump.
Gulati would be the intelligent with tons of skeletons in the closet Hillary Clinton.
Donovan would be the awkward and turtle loving JEB! Bush.
If we could get Klinnsman to come in and be Bernie 'we have to do it like they do in Europe' Sanders, that's an excellent HBO documentary series right there...
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I just hope Tab Ramos isn’t hired.
He is too much of the status quo.
He should be the replacement for the next guy if they bomb out.
Orangezoo
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Potential President Wynalda discusses plans for US Soccer
Some really great stuff in here. He has my vote.
Some really great stuff in here. He has my vote.
DeGrozz
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20 year-old Shaq Moore is starting for Levante in the copa del rey today.
I gotta be honest, I don't think I've heard his name mentioned in years. According to Wiki he kinda fell off the US radar after captaining our U17s. Moved from Dallas to Levante a few years ago and hasn't gotten much run with our youth teams since his move.
Levante isn't exactly a big club in Spain. They bounce around the top two divisions and I seem to remember them almost closing their doors during the financial crisis. Other than that, it's hopefully a good home for him and maybe a stepping stone to bigger and better things. I couldn't tell you a thing about their (or Shaq Moore's) style though...
I gotta be honest, I don't think I've heard his name mentioned in years. According to Wiki he kinda fell off the US radar after captaining our U17s. Moved from Dallas to Levante a few years ago and hasn't gotten much run with our youth teams since his move.
Levante isn't exactly a big club in Spain. They bounce around the top two divisions and I seem to remember them almost closing their doors during the financial crisis. Other than that, it's hopefully a good home for him and maybe a stepping stone to bigger and better things. I couldn't tell you a thing about their (or Shaq Moore's) style though...
CUSU
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Not many Americans have played in Spain. Only one currently right?
DeGrozz
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This kid is the only current player I know of that I've seen actually getting time. There are others in residency (Ben Lederman at Barca is our most famous). Other than that we rarely have talent in La Liga -- Gooch, Jozy, and no one else that I can remember in the last 10 or so years. (I'm not gonna count Guiseppi Rossi, for obvious reasons...)
DeGrozz
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McKennie, Adams, Miazga headline USMNT preliminary roster
The headliner of the group is Weston McKennie, a 19-year old regular for Schalke in the Bundesliga, who is arguably the most exciting young American included in the preliminary roster.
Also included, sources tell Metro, are the likes of Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls), Walker Zimmerman (FC Dallas), Jonathan Gonzalez (Monterrey), Matt Hedges (FC Dallas), Timmy Parker (Vancouver Whitecaps), Matt Miazga (Chelsea), Christian Ramirez (Minnesota United), Lynden Gooch (Sunderland) and Erik Palmer-Brown (Sporting Kansas City).
The headliner of the group is Weston McKennie, a 19-year old regular for Schalke in the Bundesliga, who is arguably the most exciting young American included in the preliminary roster.
Also included, sources tell Metro, are the likes of Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls), Walker Zimmerman (FC Dallas), Jonathan Gonzalez (Monterrey), Matt Hedges (FC Dallas), Timmy Parker (Vancouver Whitecaps), Matt Miazga (Chelsea), Christian Ramirez (Minnesota United), Lynden Gooch (Sunderland) and Erik Palmer-Brown (Sporting Kansas City).
DeGrozz
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Good news! Shaq made his La Liga debut today.
I knew nothing about him -- but after digging a little it sounds like he is a pretty good physical defender that likes to mix it up in the box and is quite good in the air defensively. It also sounds like he's got a nice mix of size and athleticism.
Unfortunately, it also sounds like he is still developing his defensive awareness and doesn't add much value offensively.
Still, a 20 year-old getting PT and training in a top-5 league is never a bad thing.
CUSU
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My young roster moving forward. Immediately start grooming talent for 2022, find out what works and what doesn't.
-----------Wood----Sargent----------
-----------------Pulisic-----------------
--Roldan---Mckennie---Gonzalez
Villa------Brooks---Miazga-----Yedlin
-------------------Horvath--------------
Starters:
Wood - 24 - Experience works hard plays in Bundesliga
Sargent - 17 - headed to the Bundesliga
Pulisic - 19 - best player Bundesliga
Roldan - 22 - playing well for Seattle, has great potential with some bite, MLS
Mckennie - 19 - getting starts for Schalke, Bundesliga
Gonzalez - 18 - starting for the best team in LigaMX, team of the week appearances
Villafaña - 28 - need a replacement, Liga MX
Brooks - 24 - will be in prime at next World Cup, Bundesliga
Miazga - 22 - plays for Vitesse, Dutch league
Yedlin - 24 - starter in the BPL
Horvath - 22 - Belgium league
Reserves:
Hyndman - 21 - Bournemouth
Carleton - 17 - Atlanta United
Gooch - 21 - Sunderland
Tyler Adams - 18 - NY Red Bull's
CCV - 19 - loan from Tottenham
Steffen - 22 - Columbus Crew
Jesse Gonzales - 22 - Dallas FC
Arriola - 22 - D.C. United
Haji Wright - 19 - Loan from Schalke
Danny Williams - 28 - Huddersfield Town, BPL
Lletget - 25 - LA Galaxy
-----------Wood----Sargent----------
-----------------Pulisic-----------------
--Roldan---Mckennie---Gonzalez
Villa------Brooks---Miazga-----Yedlin
-------------------Horvath--------------
Starters:
Wood - 24 - Experience works hard plays in Bundesliga
Sargent - 17 - headed to the Bundesliga
Pulisic - 19 - best player Bundesliga
Roldan - 22 - playing well for Seattle, has great potential with some bite, MLS
Mckennie - 19 - getting starts for Schalke, Bundesliga
Gonzalez - 18 - starting for the best team in LigaMX, team of the week appearances
Villafaña - 28 - need a replacement, Liga MX
Brooks - 24 - will be in prime at next World Cup, Bundesliga
Miazga - 22 - plays for Vitesse, Dutch league
Yedlin - 24 - starter in the BPL
Horvath - 22 - Belgium league
Reserves:
Hyndman - 21 - Bournemouth
Carleton - 17 - Atlanta United
Gooch - 21 - Sunderland
Tyler Adams - 18 - NY Red Bull's
CCV - 19 - loan from Tottenham
Steffen - 22 - Columbus Crew
Jesse Gonzales - 22 - Dallas FC
Arriola - 22 - D.C. United
Haji Wright - 19 - Loan from Schalke
Danny Williams - 28 - Huddersfield Town, BPL
Lletget - 25 - LA Galaxy
DeGrozz
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Love the inclusion of Roldan! He really showed some diversity last night playing more disruptive than he's normally called upon to do. He really should be a nice addition to the team in the next cycle. I think he'd work great in your lineup because he let's players play off of him very naturally -- I think it has to do with how good he is with the ball in tight spaces -- and that could really help out Pulisic.
Tyler Adams is gonna provide a lot of diversity for the team. I talk about the kid all the time, but in the first half tonight and the elimination game last week, he's been excellent. I feel we are watching a career take off right now. He's good in defense, smooth on the ball, tough, and really smart in possession for an 18 year old.
One player to keep an eye on is Tim Weah. He should be 20/21/22 -- somewhere around there next world cup. Training at one of the top clubs in the world can't hurt either, as well as being the son of the one-time greatest player in the game. PSG has been doing a lot right recently.
A name that doesn't pop up too often, but maybe should is Matthew Olosunde (sp?). The only reason I say that is because he had been making a position for himself in the Man U U-23 defense. I think he may currently be injured, but he's 19 and him getting playing time has gotta be a pretty good sign. I know nothing else about him, but I like the pedigree.
Other than that, if we are looking for our next Donovan/Beasley 2002 roles, we have 2 youths at Barca, including one of their top prospects, and a handful of dual-nationals at Bayern -- all who should be in the 18-20 range come 2022. I think the Bayern kids may be leaning Deutch, but one can hope.
I don't like Steffen as much as many do -- especially after his monster performance against ATL (he also had a mixed bag of brilliant saves and boneheaded plays against NYCFC the game prior). We are going to be looking for consistency in the back this cycle. For me, he's made way too many boneheaded plays this year to earn his spot. He has potential and should be really maturing in the next 4 years, but I like quite a few 24 to 28 year-old keepers more than him right now.
Now, I'll give you my unpopular opinion. I don't think Jordan Morris should be written off yet. This year, for both club and country, he's regressed. But I'll point to his 2016 club campaign to show he does have promise. He's on the opposite end of the spectrum from our golden boy Pulisic in nearly every aspect of the game. He's a brute athlete, he's not smooth, he has terrible form in most things he does, but I've watched him do a lot of nice things on the soccer field. He scores in a variety of ways, he is better with the ball at his feet than people give him credit for, I think he moves defenders well off of the ball and does make nice runs when he catches defenders out of position. He was definitely a big part of Deuce's resurgence in 2016. He's got a lot to prove to get back in the picture, but I just can't write him off yet, based on prior results.
Giovinco just hit a nasty free kick too! After opening night, there have been some good games in the MLS playoffs recently if you haven't been paying attention!
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