Virginia Gameday...

[Powellfan]

I may get blasted for this, but if you take Will Mark off this team there really isn’t much improvement from last year’s team.

The defense is extremely concerning. The amount of goals given up on the doorstep is eye opening. At the college level a dodger shouldn’t be able to dump it to the crease guy for a goal. There’s no second slide, no helping and recovering. If a defense is working well, when the offense dodges and draws a slide, it should be 2-3 passes before the offense gets a shot, ideally from 10+ yards out (not on the doorstep). This is basic stuff.

The face off teams are getting out worked/out hustled.

Offense shows glimpses of being promising but overall the carelessness and sloppiness has not improved.

I don’t see this team competing for ACC championships without improving these things drastically. The improvement over last year is marginal at best. Will Mark and a weak schedule are the only reason the record looks better than last year. I want them competing for championships as much as anyone here but there’s still a lot of concerns.

You definitely shouldn’t be blasted for your post. The numbers don’t really back it up with the offense though. Even after yesterdays beat down the offense is fourth in the country in adjusted efficiency. That’s really good especially when you consider the unit is majority freshmen and transfers. The turnovers, especially in recent weeks have been frustrating but I have to imagine the possession pressure they are under makes for shaky nerves at times. Not trying to blame everything on the faceoff crew but I think it plays a role.

The defense you might be on to something. They are 41st in efficiency which isn’t great but is better than last year when they were in the 60s. The thing I’m struggling with is how Mark can make 14-17 saves per game and the team is still giving up goals in the high double digits? Is it just faceoffs? Does Mark give up too many rebounds? I don’t think so. Against Princeton, SU dominated faceoffs and Mark still had to make 17 saves, while allowing 13 goals. Was hoping a better lacrosse mind might shed light on the situation.

Anyways, this season is simply better for the reason that last year SU’s season was over with more than one game remaining on the schedule. This year, while it might be improbable, SU is at least still alive for a playoff spot with one game to go. To me that’s progress.

 

[Cuse All-In]

You definitely shouldn’t be blasted for your post. The numbers don’t really back it up with the offense though. Even after yesterdays beat down the offense is fourth in the country in adjusted efficiency. That’s really good especially when you consider the unit is majority freshmen and transfers. The turnovers, especially in recent weeks have been frustrating but I have to imagine the possession pressure they are under makes for shaky nerves at times. Not trying to blame everything on the faceoff crew but I think it plays a role.

The defense you might be on to something. They are 41st in efficiency which isn’t great but is better than last year when they were in the 60s. The thing I’m struggling with is how Mark can make 14-17 saves per game and the team is still giving up goals in the high double digits? Is it just faceoffs? Does Mark give up too many rebounds? I don’t think so. Against Princeton, SU dominated faceoffs and Mark still had to make 17 saves, while allowing 13 goals. Was hoping a better lacrosse mind might shed light on the situation.

Anyways, this season is simply better for the reason that last year SU’s season was over with more than one game remaining on the schedule. This year, while it might be improbable, SU is at least still alive for a playoff spot with one game to go. To me that’s progress.

I am definitely not a better lacrosse mind but I might be better looking??

The answer to your point about Mark and saves is fairly straightforward. When a strong goalie faces a very large number of shots week after week - and please note that total shots as well as shots on goal are important - he will have double digit save numbers. That is simply because saves over time will represent a proportion or percentage of shots and shots on goal. Also, the quality of opposition shots affects the numbers - Mark's save percentage against ACC teams (below 50%) is significantly lower than against other teams this season. This is not because Mark is weaker against the ACC - it just means the ACC exposes our D and has wide open shots which no goalie can be expected to stop. Mark is obviously not alone there as most goalies numbers are disproportionately lower against the ACC. I'm sure if you asked Mark, the fatigue factor of having the field tilted and the ball in our end also plays into it.

All you need to do is look at the total shots that other ACC teams have fired at us: Duke - 66! UVA - 60!! UNC - 50 etc. That tells you that our D is simply full of holes and we are losing the possession battle.

Let's put it another way - if your goalie is one of your star players and regularly making double digit saves, it means your team defense is lousy and the other team is getting more possessions. We saw enough of this in 2021 and hoped not to see it again.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I am definitely not a better lacrosse mind but I might be better looking??

The answer to your point about Mark and saves is fairly straightforward. When a strong goalie faces a very large number of shots week after week - and please note that total shots as well as shots on goal are important - he will have double digit save numbers. That is simply because saves over time will represent a proportion or percentage of shots and shots on goal. Also, the quality of opposition shots affects the numbers - Mark's save percentage against ACC teams (below 50%) is significantly lower than against other teams this season. This is not because Mark is weaker against the ACC - it just means the ACC exposes our D and has wide open shots which no goalie can be expected to stop. Mark is obviously not alone there as most goalies numbers are disproportionately lower against the ACC. I'm sure if you asked Mark, the fatigue factor of having the field tilted and the ball in our end also plays into it.

All you need to do is look at the total shots that other ACC teams have fired at us: Duke - 66! UVA - 60!! UNC - 50 etc. That tells you that our D is simply full of holes and we are losing the possession battle.

Let's put it another way - if your goalie is one of your star players and regularly making double digit saves, it means your team defense is lousy and the other team is getting more possessions. We saw enough of this in 2021 and hoped not to see it again.

Bingo, this nails it 100%.

 

[DoctahLexus]

A lot of the more disgusting play from the defense was there against UNC and Princeton too. Just went up against a team that is better at cleanly executing when we make the same bonehead slides and rotations. I practically had a satisfied feeling when they scored a 1v1 iso goal. There were a depressingly low amount of goals that fit that description. Garno beat Rice once, Dickson beat Aviles a couple times. McConvey once on a broken play. That is literally it! You should be able to live with that! Sure there were a couple bullets dodged at other times but they were not giving us major trouble off the dodge overall, and still all those goals. It's disgusting. And they could have had more.

Wgdsr's post on the last page does a good job of breaking it down, but just to reiterate. There first two goals were with guys dodging without much urgency at all against our top two cover guys on the team. At no point did they gain a step. And still someone had the bright idea (or was coached) to just abandon their man completely for a wide open shot. It is game 14. Year 2 for Petro. How. in. the. hell. is this the game plan. It is malpractice to have your stick anywhere besides on Dickson and Cormiers hands unless it is in absolute emergency. How many times have we said that about a certain off-ball threat? How in the hell is this slide happy nonsense the overarching strategy? How in the hell is there not better communication/organization on who the two slide is because they are almost ALWAYS nowhere to be found when someone gets the idea to bum rush the guy with the ball. This goal total should only be reached if both your long poles and ssdms are getting torched off the dodge left and right.

Even a couple of their goals in transition were not actually plays where they had numbers. Just laziness and disorganization. Agree with DMV and others who said we should have kept Dwan in the close D unit. He is one of the few D-pole guys who seems to make the right decisions off ball. Should have kept the cohesion in the unit from the last two games. That's it for micro coaching critiques. The rest are big picture and long term unless we make a change. Petro has to have some answers on why we seem to prefer a wide open shot on the crease or with time and room at 12 yards than a contested low angle shot in a 1v1 situation. Why we don't give a darn about sliding off of teams off-ball threats. Why we slide and double team hoping to put the ball on the ground when an easy goal is the more likely result. Nobody legit will hire him as head coach unless he changes the narrative here. If they somehow do I would be shocked...and not that mad about it.

 

[AD31]

I really think they need to play Cohen this week. Kirst is the only one who can dodge and create a shot on his own. They need someone else who can do it this is do or die. Virginia didn't slide at all because no one can beat there man one on one. Even if he don't create his own shot he will open up someone else if he beats his man and draws the slide. He needs to be out there. The D got torched which we expected pretty much but the offense didn't light up the scoreboard either. I know turnovers hurt so they didn't get a lot of possessions but still the offense needs someone else who can dodge not just Kirst.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I really think they need to play Cohen this week. Kirst is the only one who can dodge and create a shot on his own. They need someone else who can do it this is do or die. Virginia didn't slide at all because no one can beat there man one on one. Even if he don't create his own shot he will open up someone else if he beats his man and draws the slide. He needs to be out there. The D got torched which we expected pretty much but the offense didn't light up the scoreboard either. I know turnovers hurt so they didn't get a lot of possessions but still the offense needs someone else who can dodge not just Kirst.

I wouldn't hold your breath, unfortunately this staff is worse then the previous one when it comes to modifying the two deep. They get so dug in that it takes an injury or a one off to make a move. Birtwistle should be seeing more time with the 1s and Cohen time with the 2's, no real rationale why neither move isn't happening.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

. Agree with DMV and others who said we should have kept Dwan in the close D unit. He is one of the few D-pole guys who seems to make the right decisions off ball.

We need more Dwans and fewer of the guys we have.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I wouldn't hold your breath, unfortunately this staff is worse then the previous one when it comes to modifying the two deep. They get so dug in that it takes an injury or a one off to make a move. Birtwistle should be seeing more time with the 1s and Cohen time with the 2's, no real rationale why neither move isn't happening.

Think the rationale is essentially “if it ain’t broke.” Kirst is far from the only guy who can create off the dodge. Hiltz Leo Spallina Simmons Rhoa and even Cook have done plenty for us this year creating off the dodge. A quiet game from some of those guys while we ride the Kirst hot hand doesn’t change that.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Think the rationale is essentially “if it ain’t broke.” Kirst is far from the only guy who can create off the dodge. Hiltz Leo Spallina Simmons Rhoa and even Cook have done plenty for us this year creating off the dodge. A quiet game from some of those guys while we ride the Kirst hot hand doesn’t change that.

I agree those guys have shown they can dodge but only Leo and to an extent Spallina have done it consistently and even that might be a stretch. Simmons and Thomson have excellent numbers but neither is a great dodger and Thomson has hardly dodged at all. I am not saying Cohen should be running with the 1st but giving him a few runs a half and giving Birtwistle sometime with the 1s (a guy who has done nothing but score) seems like a small thing March could easily do especially against upper level defenses.

 

[AD31]

I agree those guys have shown they can dodge but only Leo and to an extent Spallina have done it consistently and even that might be a stretch. Simmons and Thomson have excellent numbers but neither is a great dodger and Thomson has hardly dodged at all. I am not saying Cohen should be running with the 1st but giving him a few runs a half and giving Birtwistle sometime with the 1s (a guy who has done nothing but score) seems like a small thing March could easily do especially against upper level defenses.

Yeah Birtwhistle was scoring like crazy early in the yr on the first line. Leo can dodge I forgot about him. Just would like to see Cohen mix in on the 2nd line he can beat anyone one on one with his speed.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I agree those guys have shown they can dodge but only Leo and to an extent Spallina have done it consistently and even that might be a stretch. Simmons and Thomson have excellent numbers but neither is a great dodger and Thomson has hardly dodged at all. I am not saying Cohen should be running with the 1st but giving him a few runs a half and giving Birtwistle sometime with the 1s (a guy who has done nothing but score) seems like a small thing March could easily do especially against upper level defenses.

I think the offense creates enough looks and opportunities to score where lack of dodging is not a major concern for me. Looking back on Saturday the opportunities were there to bury more goals. Some inexplicable lapses from Thomson and Spallina finishing. We know they are better than that. Hiltz hits Rhoa (or Birtwistle not sure) wide open with a btb feed and they stupidly take a btb shot from 6 yards out for no reason. Think the opportunities were there to keep it close down the stretch. Then as powellfan and others have mentioned the tendency to rush things when you are down 7 or 8 goals is hard to overcome. There were some early shot clock looks that we went for when we should have waited for better.

Trying Cohen for Cook is one thing. Not sure I would want to break up the two man game duo of Simmons and Thomson on the first line by adding in Birtwistle instead, but maybe it was the right move with Thomson having a rough day at the office/not challenging his ssdm match up off the dodge. Make too many changes to service dodging and you might be left wondering where the passing and chemistry went.

 

[cuselaxss26]

Well birt last year believe had few goals by riding himself. But he just sits inside non stop not really trying to take anyone. If anyone read what quint said he blamed two guys kinda for our defense woes. I have feeling it’s kol and clary. Think clary was more injured n missing games being out of mix n pace of play. Kol has done well in moments but his poor choices and positioning is just not good for most part. I think he is the weak link and that’s all ya need is one guy to make poor choice or move and whole defense can fall apart. Cause he makes bad move and rest defense has to try make up for that or slide or move cause kol did. I mention it before i’d like to see no doubt dwan olexo cacaemo as close until clary gets back to himself atleast. Or id even go with beck who is faster then kol bigger believe also and is young. Plus he’s on man down so clearly they trust him somewhat. Also agree cohen n even his name slipping me 29 on cuse a run or two here and there threw game. Why cook gets so much when just doesn’t make a lot of plays or helps team in so many ways. Vs poorer teams cook does well but the better teams he struggles and wouldn’t even know he’s been on field if haven’t watch it for years.

 

[cuselaxss26]

cordes that’s name sorry bugging me couldn’t remember it now did. Cohen and cordes should get time also. Even if run a third line out there early once in while. No team would expect it or scout it cause we always run same guys non stop. Highly doubt with last game of season possibly anything changes. Also didn’t get why once got it within 5 from johnny winning faceoffs they went back to fine who lost 4 in row and they scored everytime. Unless johnny was just beat tired i don’t know. Can spell him keep petey guessing but not 4 in row maby 1-2 then johnny’s. Never thought would of asked for johnny at x either but he did well.

 

[Powellfan]

Apologies if this has been posted but I don’t recall seeing it. It was taped prior to the Virginia game.

 

[UrbanaOrange]

Apologies if this has been posted but I don’t recall seeing it. It was taped prior to the Virginia game.

Great interview. Really like how the ACCN promotes the sport. KT, GG and players from both mens and women's teams have been on the show of late. Packer has made comments on a couple of occasions that lax "means more" to people in Upstate and CNY.

 

[sholokov2]

Do we have defensemen who can play outside and inside against ND and UVA or Duke? Why did SU come closer to UVA in their first meeting? I reviewed the first UVA game. Dixon and Cormiers were good, but not magical like they have become over the course of the season. I've watched some great finishers over the last thirty years. The very good teams have usually had one who could score at will. I do not remember a combination as good as Dixon and Cormiers who play from the crease to about ten feet from the goal. They strike like rattlers. Lightning reflexes, incredible eye hand coordination. They have improved their coordination over this season. The other aspect sometimes missed about these guys is physical. Cormier is a big strong veteran player. Dixon reminds me of a great ballet dancer. Grace and speed unmatched by most players. It would take at least two elite longs to handle them. SU has none. Combine them with four other exceptional athletes and Katie bar ... No defensive scheme regardless of how well executed will stop these guys. You have to outscore UVA and ND and probably Duke. Posters have suggested various combinations of offensive players. Cohen and Cordes are not enough, though they may be a slight improvement. SU's offense may grow into as devastating a group as UVA in a couple of years. Not this year.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Do we have defensemen who can play outside and inside against ND and UVA or Duke? Why did SU come closer to UVA in their first meeting? I reviewed the first UVA game. Dixon and Cormiers were good, but not magical like they have become over the course of the season. I've watched some great finishers over the last thirty years. The very good teams have usually had one who could score at will. I do not remember a combination as good as Dixon and Cormiers who play from the crease to about ten feet from the goal. They strike like rattlers. Lightning reflexes, incredible eye hand coordination. They have improved their coordination over this season. The other aspect sometimes missed about these guys is physical. Cormier is a big strong veteran player. Dixon reminds me of a great ballet dancer. Grace and speed unmatched by most players. It would take at least two elite longs to handle them. SU has none. Combine them with four other exceptional athletes and Katie bar ... No defensive scheme regardless of how well executed will stop these guys. You have to outscore UVA and ND and probably Duke. Posters have suggested³ various combinations of offensive players. Cohen and Cordes are not enough, though they may be a slight improvement. SU's offense may grow into as devastating a group as UVA in a couple of years. Not this year.

SU only played UVA once this year, not sure what your referencing by "first meeting".

 

[Hoo's That]

Do we have defensemen who can play outside and inside against ND and UVA or Duke? Why did SU come closer to UVA in their first meeting? I reviewed the first UVA game. Dixon and Cormiers were good, but not magical like they have become over the course of the season. I've watched some great finishers over the last thirty years. The very good teams have usually had one who could score at will. I do not remember a combination as good as Dixon and Cormiers who play from the crease to about ten feet from the goal. They strike like rattlers. Lightning reflexes, incredible eye hand coordination. They have improved their coordination over this season. The other aspect sometimes missed about these guys is physical. Cormier is a big strong veteran player. Dixon reminds me of a great ballet dancer. Grace and speed unmatched by most players. It would take at least two elite longs to handle them. SU has none. Combine them with four other exceptional athletes and Katie bar ... No defensive scheme regardless of how well executed will stop these guys. You have to outscore UVA and ND and probably Duke. Posters have suggested various combinations of offensive players. Cohen and Cordes are not enough, though they may be a slight improvement. SU's offense may grow into as devastating a group as UVA in a couple of years. Not this year.

That's the problem UVa presents when the 1st midfield is playing. You've got 5 players you'd want to pole (Shellenberger, Dickson, Cormier, McConvey, and Schutz) but only 4 poles on the field.

 

[sholokov2]

SU only played UVA once this year, not sure what your referencing by "first meeting".

my bad you are correct.

 

[Powellfan]

 

[Cuse All-In]

No wonder they lost - they thought they were playing Hobart