"Virginia lost by 15 points at Boston College. Nobody asked Tony Bennett to play zone, because that's their defense." - JB, today

[Cuse1055]

So frustrating listening to people feeding right into JB’s BS, although it does seem like Axe isn’t buying it anymore and knows a change is what’s best.

 

[two3zone]

Why wouldn’t I believe it?

 

[two3zone]

So frustrating listening to people feeding right into JB’s BS, although it does seem like Axe isn’t buying it anymore and knows a change is what’s best.

I usually listen to the local shows. They’re currently unbearable. That ball gargling Pauly is unlistenable, is there anyone more clueless other than the MyPillow clown that has a platform?

 

[PhatOrange]

I’d rather know what BC did offensively to win.

 

[Scooch]

Good post, per usual, Scooch.

I agree, it should be easy to understand how someone with the nearly unprecedented success JB has had over his 47 career becomes so entrenched in their beliefs. It's natural human nature. The more difficult perspective for many to wrap their heads around is how can JB be so thin skined given all that success. It is incongruent. Belichick is obviously more conmfortable with his self worth. For JB to acknowledge that his way is no longer working would tear at the thing he fears the most.

That doesn't make JB a bad person (I'm not suggesting you think that). You can't help the way you feel. I do not mean to imply that this an excuse for JB's behavior. But, it does help to explain why acts this way. Even though a person can't help the way they feel, you can learn to control how you react to those feelings. That's the disappoionting part for me in watching JB struggle.

I agree completely.

I also think it's instructive to consider how someone achieves their success. Using my Belichick example, he's a guy who has always been at the forefront of innovation in his sport. The guy literally has a defensive gameplan in the Hall of Fame from his time as DC of the Giants. In his tenure with the Pats he has always prioritized finding the inefficiencies in the NFL and exploiting them, be it in terms of scheme or personell.

So it's not a surprise that he's still comfortable making radical changes to his approach even very late in his career, and despite his prior success.

I don't want to overstate my point, but JB has been the opposite of that, very broadly speaking. His success has come from developing a unique scheme and steadfastly sticking to it. To be honest I always loved that about JB, that he didn't chase trends, but rather focused intently on a small number of things that really matter and have impact.

However, that approach always has a shelf life, because every sport changes eventually to the point where your approach has to evolve. You can't run a baseball team in 2023 like you did in 2003. Same applies to hoops. I just don't think he's wired to make the necessary changes.

 

[Scooch]

I’d rather know what BC did offensively to win.

Shots were made.

 

[two3zone]

Shots were made.

They got up and got rebounds.

 

[UpstateSM]

Shave your head, Hubbs. It’s okay to be bald in your 20s. I promise. You don’t have to wear a hat 24/7.

- a bald 25 year old

 

[Toga]

I agree completely.

I also think it's instructive to consider how someone achieves their success. Using my Belichick example, he's a guy who has always been at the forefront of innovation in his sport. The guy literally has a defensive gameplan in the Hall of Fame from his time as DC of the Giants. In his tenure with the Pats he has always prioritized finding the inefficiencies in the NFL and exploiting them, be it in terms of scheme or personell.

So it's not a surprise that he's still comfortable making radical changes to his approach even very late in his career, and despite his prior success.

I don't want to overstate my point, but JB has been the opposite of that, very broadly speaking. His success has come from developing a unique scheme and steadfastly sticking to it. To be honest I always loved that about JB, that he didn't chase trends, but rather focused intently on a small number of things that really matter and have impact.

However, that approach always has a shelf life, because every sport changes eventually to the point where your approach has to evolve. You can't run a baseball team in 2023 like you did in 2003. Same applies to hoops. I just don't think he's wired to make the necessary changes.

And at the heart of all that is his inability to admit he can be wrong. I bet growing up in a funeral home with a demanding father probably sucked is my Psych 101 summary.

 

[two3zone]

So frustrating listening to people feeding right into JB’s BS, although it does seem like Axe isn’t buying it anymore and knows a change is what’s best.

Listening now, Axe is currently giving an on air handy. He defended his students which is the hardest he’s ever gone after coach, but his cute “free throws matter kids” is probably his second hardest hitting take.

 

[Gotothehole]

OK, but Coach K nd Jay Wright retired with grace and dignity. In fact, most coaches do...

Why can't ours? Is it really that hard?

That’s a good question. I am certain that some one here can ask him

 

[Fly Rodder]

I’d rather know what BC did offensively to win.

Used a tough man d to interrupt Tony's newer triangle offense, and UVA couldn't hit the open shots they did get. It happens. My guess is that UVA beats them 8 out 10 times.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree completely.

I also think it's instructive to consider how someone achieves their success. Using my Belichick example, he's a guy who has always been at the forefront of innovation in his sport. The guy literally has a defensive gameplan in the Hall of Fame from his time as DC of the Giants. In his tenure with the Pats he has always prioritized finding the inefficiencies in the NFL and exploiting them, be it in terms of scheme or personell.

So it's not a surprise that he's still comfortable making radical changes to his approach even very late in his career, and despite his prior success.

I don't want to overstate my point, but JB has been the opposite of that, very broadly speaking. His success has come from developing a unique scheme and steadfastly sticking to it. To be honest I always loved that about JB, that he didn't chase trends, but rather focused intently on a small number of things that really matter and have impact.

However, that approach always has a shelf life, because every sport changes eventually to the point where your approach has to evolve. You can't run a baseball team in 2023 like you did in 2003. Same applies to hoops. I just don't think he's wired to make the necessary changes.

I don't think the scheme was the reason for his overall success. He used to bring in a bunch of talented players. That had more to do with the Ws than the scheme. I do think the scheme played a huge role in our recent NCAAT runs. But prior to 2013, I think the scheme was a minor player in JB's success.

 

[thedisciple]

We shot 29-58 from 3 over those 2 games in 2021.

The SDSU game was over before halftime, and WVU shot 42% from 3. Offense was the reason for those wins, not the zone.

No need to discuss Houston.

The SDSU game was over at halftime because of offense AND defense. We completely shut them down. West Virginia got hot late but was contained for most of the game. And why not discuss Houston? The issue was our inability to score that game. Our defense shut them down just not as much as they shut us down.

 

[thedisciple]

Why not just play M2M like the 359 1/2 other D1 teams and not worry about having a specific player body type but just good basketball players? Can teams not have good defenses with M2M?

Because when Boeheim constructs a team with the zone in mind (instead of the likes of Buddy, Jimmy, Girard, Allen Griffin etc), the zone is a lot better than the vast majority of M2M defenses.

 

[thedisciple]

this is great. you say that the zone being obsolete is bs because there were two tournament games one year where teams missed alot of shots against it. BRILLIANT.

No I'm saying when we have the right personnel playing the zone it can still shut opposing offenses down. Not because we got lucky that the other teams shot bad. In the tournament that year Boeheim made one of the best coaching decisions of his career... Benching the defensively invisible Allen Griffin in favor of Braswell and giving more PT to Edwards and Kadary Richmond. The point is we had ideal zone personnel playing in the tourney that year and the results were immediate. Get the right type of players back in the zone and can go back to being one of the top 20 defenses (ish) in the NCAA as it was for large parts of 2008-2019.

 

[djcon57]

Because when Boeheim constructs a team with the zone in mind (instead of the likes of Buddy, Jimmy, Girard, Allen Griffin etc), the zone is a lot better than the vast majority of M2M defenses.

It’s a good point. Why do you think he went away from constructing a team with the zone in mind In recent years?

 

[Fly Rodder]

Because when Boeheim constructs a team with the zone in mind (instead of the likes of Buddy, Jimmy, Girard, Allen Griffin etc), the zone is a lot better than the vast majority of M2M defenses.

No it’s not.

 

[LaggyJon]

I think we'd all go a lot easier on JB if we saw any sign that he was admitting that there have been failures and he was genuinely trying to alter his approach. But he really hasn't. It's very disappointing.

This is the best distillation of the frustration I’ve felt the last few years. I’ve been more than willing to give JB some rope to make changes and get back the program back to where we all want it to be, even if it meant taking some lumps in the meantime.

Instead it’s the same staff, same defensive scheme, same (lack of) offensive scheme, same inane deflections and aggressiveness when he gets the slightest pushback from the media or fans.

Nothing would’ve made me happier than JB finishing his career on a high note. But he seems unwilling to even acknowledge that there’s a problem, never mind take any steps to fix it.

 

[Charbroil]

The zone is a part of the problem. Although I believe it can still be successful as a team’s primary defense (shouldn’t be run exclusively, however). But by far the biggest issue with this program is a very noticeable talent drop-off over the last several years.

I have no doubt that a team consisting of guys like CJ Fair, Michael Carter-Williams, and Brandon Triche (in their 2013 forms) would be a top 15 squad with a good defense.

 

[DoctorBombay]

No I'm saying when we have the right personnel playing the zone it can still shut opposing offenses down. Not because we got lucky that the other teams shot bad. In the tournament that year Boeheim made one of the best coaching decisions of his career... Benching the defensively invisible Allen Griffin in favor of Braswell and giving more PT to Edwards and Kadary Richmond. The point is we had ideal zone personnel playing in the tourney that year and the results were immediate. Get the right type of players back in the zone and can go back to being one of the top 20 defenses (ish) in the NCAA as it was for large parts of 2008-2019.

Agreed.
Personally I'm not anti-zone, it's a lethal weapon with the right personnel especially in the Dance. We beat Michigan State w/ suffocating defense and a Tyus Battle clutch jumper. We had no business winning that game- the difference maker was the 2-3.
It's Daddy Ball and stubbornness that killed the SU defense. Buddy & JG were both pathetic defensive players, I have PTSD thinking about them at the top of the zone. But JB threw his philosophy down the drain to, IMO, accommodate their deficiencies. His coaching was unrecognizable these last few years, and it's gotten worse.