Virginia

[HarrisonJBounel]

Nonsense. "Many do not?" The vast majority do.

Many of the highest impact players in recent years do not stay four years - Melo, Greene, Flynn, Devo, Harris, Fab, Waiters, Ennis (likely), Grant (likely). Better?

Therefore to your "nonsense" I say...nonsense.

 

[RF2044]

Many of the highest impact players in recent years do not stay four years - Melo, Greene, Flynn, Devo, Harris, Fab, Waiters, Ennis (likely), Grant (likely). Better?

Therefore to your "nonsense" I say...nonsense.

It is nonsense, when you look at things in aggregate.

Of that list, three of those players were not extended the option of returning. They left SU because they didn't have a choice [two of whom expressed an interest in returning but were denied].

Counting Ennis and Grant doesn't substantiate your argument, and is a huge reach.

So we're talking Melo more than 10+ years ago, Greene, Flynn, Waiters, and MCW since 2003. You could also include Wes in there, but I tend not to since he was a transfer in, and hence an unusual circumstance.

That means that every other player recruited during the last decade fits the mold of what I described above--players who in general were good system fits, who tended to stay for the entire duration of their careers [or transfer out]. But program guys nonetheless.

We've had a couple of players jump to the NBA early, but far fewer than many other top programs. Which was the point. We recruit a couple of elite guys, and cluster them with system fit role players, who often are also good athletes and develop into good players over the course of their four year career here at SU. Sometimes those elite talents pan out and live up to the hype [MCW, Waiters], sometimes they fall short [Fab / Harris / Rak / Coleman]. But the four year players are often as important [GMac, Andy, Onuaku, Rick, Scoop, Kris, Fair, etc.] to team success.

 

[sewdog]

No need to apologize. I just want to point out that we aren't and haven't been a haven for one-and-dones like many other elite programs. We're a team that recruits to a defensive system first.

I agree we have good players / good athletes, and are known for that. But we're the ultimate system team--relying upon a blend of elite talents and system-oriented role players who develop over the course of a four year career.

Well, in that case we are very much alike, with the exception that you get top 50 talent and we do not. I must admit that to those of us who are not yet as familiar with Syracuse as we will be now that you have joined our league, Carmelo Anthony remains the face of your program. I believe he stayed one year, yes? He is the outlier, but just as you all undoubtedly associate UVA with Ralph Sampson if you associate anyone at all with our program, we at UVA look at Syracuse and see Carmelo and his headband (or for those of us with a little more life experience, we think of Pearl Washington.)

 

[jordoo]

I think UVA has potential but they need a couple consecutive top 25 recruiting classes before they will be back year in year out. If Pitt can become an annual top 25 team their is no reason UVA can't do the same. I think UVA has the ability to recruit at a higher level than Pitt as well. 3 or 4 consecutive NCAA appearances would mean UVA is back for me. NC State is quietly trying to get their 3rd straight NCAA bid this year. The ACC needs more consistency from its middle class in basketball just like it does in football, but unlike football the ACC basketball brand will have 4 of the top 10 brands in college basketball next year with Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville.

Right but we are talking regularly ranked and regularly in the NCAAT not a powerhouse. I agree that Bennett can probably get them to that point. But you still have to rely on the guys you bring developing over time like at Pitt.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

It is nonsense, when you look at things in aggregate.

Of that list, three of those players were not extended the option of returning. They left SU because they didn't have a choice [two of whom expressed an interest in returning but were denied].

Counting Ennis and Grant doesn't substantiate your argument, and is a huge reach.

So we're talking Melo more than 10+ years ago, Greene, Flynn, Waiters, and MCW since 2003. You could also include Wes in there, but I tend not to since he was a transfer in, and hence an unusual circumstance.

That means that every other player recruited during the last decade fits the mold of what I described above--players who in general were good system fits, who tended to stay for the entire duration of their careers [or transfer out]. But program guys nonetheless.

We've had a couple of players jump to the NBA early, but far fewer than many other top programs. Which was the point. We recruit a couple of elite guys, and cluster them with system fit role players, who often are also good athletes and develop into good players over the course of their four year career here at SU. Sometimes those elite talents pan out and live up to the hype [MCW, Waiters], sometimes they fall short [Fab / Harris / Rak / Coleman]. But the four year players are often as important [GMac, Andy, Onuaku, Rick, Scoop, Kris, Fair, etc.] to team success.

You have chosen the harshest possible definitions of why a player did not return in order to characterize him as a "system" player, and it is not accurate in the context of the discussion.

I actually forgot Wes Johnson, and he supports my argument perfectly - thank you. Boeheim knew he was likely a one and done, and therefore not a "system" player. Similarly, add Kristof Ongenaet to that list - a JUCO transfer. A consummate role player, yes, but hardly a "system" player.

I would also add that while we haven't had many one-and-dones, it has not been for a lack of trying. Nerlens Noel comes to mind. We wanted him badly knowing he was an almost certain one-and-done, and therefore not a "system" player. There have been others we tried to get, and there will be more.

And I never said that the four-year players aren't key to our success. My original point is that we are not a "system" basketball team as the UVA fan here would describe it - hence his distinction between our program and theirs. And I would agree, hence my support of him. We are more of a hybrid - most are four year "system" players, but many are not. My statement stands.

My work here is done. You may now have the last word.

Including Grant and Ennis is not a "huge" reach, and not a reach at all. Your use of hyperbole only serves to expose the weakness of your argument.

 

[RF2044]

You have chosen the harshest possible definitions of why a player did not return in order to characterize him as a "system" player, and it is not accurate in the context of the discussion.

I actually forgot Wes Johnson, and he supports my argument perfectly - thank you. Boeheim knew he was likely a one and done, and therefore not a "system" player. Similarly, add Kristof Ongenaet to that list - a JUCO transfer. A consummate role player, yes, but hardly a "system" player.

I would also add that while we haven't had many one-and-dones, it has not been for a lack of trying. Nerlens Noel comes to mind. We wanted him badly knowing he was an almost certain one-and-done, and therefore not a "system" player. There have been others we tried to get, and there will be more.

And I never said that the four-year players aren't key to our success. My original point is that we are not a "system" basketball team as the UVA fan here would describe it - hence his distinction between our program and theirs. And I would agree, hence my support of him. We are more of a hybrid - most are four year "system" players, but many are not. My statement stands.

My work here is done. You may now have the last word.

Including Grant and Ennis is not a "huge" reach, and not a reach at all. Your use of hyperbole only serves to expose the weakness of your argument.

No I didn't--that is a pretty far fetched misinterpretation on your part.

What I actually said sans fantasy land interpretation is that we tend to recruit few elite players, and surround them with guys who fit our defensive system. Historically, that bears out no matter what you'd like to pretend.

Even with increased [relative to our fairly small number of NBA players we've historically produce] number of NBA early entrants we've had, in general we tend not to have more than 1 NBA prospect on the team at any given time, and more specifically less than one who is actually playing an important role at any given time. For example, Dion and MCW were both on the 2012 team, but MCW didn't play.

The lone exception to that rule of thumb is Greene / Flynn, and we both know how their careers panned out. Otherwise you have Carmelo and a bunch of complimentary talent. Wes and a bunch of very good system role players. Dion and a bunch of role players. MCW and a similar bunch of role players. See the pattern?

And no, I don't count Devo, Harris, or Fab as NBA talents--nor as elite players.

I know that you are an NBA star chaser, and that you've expressed in the past how important it is that we continually crank out NBA prospects to bolster recruiting, but wishing doesn't make it so.

Your characterization about both Wes and Onganet demonstrates how far off base you are. I won't get started on you counting chickens about Ennis and Grant, and their respective NBA chances.

Agree to disagree about this topic. Again, wow.

 

[jordoo]

The beauty of the situation at UVA is that we do not have to try to compete with the elite teams for talent. It is our system that allows us to be competitive. Because we are not loaded with Mcdonalds AAs, our players stay in the system longer and we gain the benefit of upper class leadership. Everyone has his own opinion about "one-and done" (and I live in Lexington KY, the one-and-done capital of the world) but I know that recruiting elite talent makes a coach's job much more difficult because of the constant turnover. UVA is beginning the see the benefits of Coach Bennett's system, as the seniors this year are from his first recruiting class. The game Saturday will pit Syracuse and its athletes (and famed zone D) against our system. You guys certainly have the pedigree and our hoops history cannot hold a candle to yours, but the excitement in Charlottesville is due to the fact that we believe we have solved the riddle about how to be competitive in the ACC. Good luck Saturday and I expect it to be a heck of a game. It's our Senior Day and we are sending off two of the most beloved and unselfish players in the history of our program.

We start a Senior, Junior, Sophomore, Redshirt Sophomore and a Freshman. Our backup big is a Senior and our backup guard is a Sophomore who transferred. So while we get plenty of top notch talent and have been putting guys into the NBA early we also recruit players the coaches expect to be around and develop overtime. This years class of freshman we got a top level starting PG. A very good forward who simply has much better players in front of him but should see a lot of time next year. Then we redshirted a big guy and have another G/ who projects to be a good player down the road. SU also has system guys they are just usually more highly regarded recruits than yours and have to wait there turn longer than they would at other schools.

 

[SWC75]

We obviously have the greater history in basketball, (football, too, and other sports). We had the more impressive pre-conference schedule and record. But that won't mean much on Saturday.

A better clue to the challenge ahead of us is in the comparative scores, (one more of which is due in tomorrow).

Virginia:

beat Wake Forest at home 74-51; We beat Wake on the road 67-57
won at NC State 76-45; We beat NC State 56-55 at home
lost 65-69 at Duke; We lost 60-66 there but beat them at home 91-89 in overtime
beat UNC at home 76-61, as did we, 57-44
beat Virginia Tech at home, 65-45 and on the road 57-53; We beat Tech on the road 72-52
beat Notre Dame on the road 68-53 and at home 70-49;. We beat them at home 61-55
beat Pittsburgh on the road, 48-45; So did we, 58-56 and at home 59-54
They beat Boston College at home 77-67; We beat them by the same margin, 69-59 on the road but lost 59-62 at home
They beat Maryland 61-53 at home; We beat them 57-55 on the road
They beat Clemson 63-58 on the road; We beat then 57-44 at home

If you look only at the games played against the same team at the same venue, ("home" being a venue) it loos like this:

at Duke Syracuse 60-66; Virginia 65-69 / Advantage: Virginia 2 points
UNC: Syracuse 57-44; Virginia 76-61 / Advantage: Virginia 2 points
at Virginia Tech: Syracuse 72-52; Virginia 57-53 / Advantage: Syracuse 16 points
Notre Dame: Syracuse 61-55; Virginia 70-49 / Advantage: Virginia 15 points
at Pittsburgh: Syracuse 58-56; Virginia 48-45 / Advantage: Virginia 1 point
Boston College: Syracuse 59-62; Virginia 77-67 / Advantage Virginia 13 points
Net advantage: Virginia 5 games to 1 and by 17 points

They will be a most formidable opponent, especially if Jerami grant isn't fully healthy and Trevor Cooney keeps clanging three pointers.

And now they beat Miami 65-40, at home. We beat Miami 49-44 in the Dome. Advantage: Virginia 20 points
Net advantage: Virginia 6 games to 1 and by 37 points.

 

[pearl31]

And now they beat Miami 65-40, at home. We beat Miami 49-44 in the Dome. Advantage: Virginia 20 points
Net advantage: Virginia 6 games to 1 and by 37 points.

uh-huh, cuz that's clearly a predictor

 

[SWC75]

uh-huh, cuz that's clearly a predictor

It's an indicator that we have a big challenge coming up. Maybe we should save the trash talk for after the game.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

Going off this question a little bit I feel like besides the one and done factory of Kentucky most elite schools it seems like, recruit a few elite players then surround them with program players. Even Duke UNC and Kansas seem to do that, but definitely have more guys leave early than us.

 

[CaptainJ]

Many of the highest impact players in recent years do not stay four years - Melo, Greene, Flynn, Devo, Harris, Fab, Waiters, Ennis (likely), Grant (likely). Better?

Therefore to your "nonsense" I say...nonsense.

Heck, you left out MCW. Gotta give him some loving too!

I'm with you on the gap between us and UVA, but(and a lot of folks aren't going to like this) if people look at the grading of classes, we still have considerable ground to close with Duke and UNC if next season's class is any indicator. As an example, Duke has 4 incoming players ranked ahead of our top incoming freshman. We still need to be more of a system program at this point than a few teams, although we are closing ground and likely will more so with the move to the ACC. You and RF both have good points, I'm just trying to establish some middle ground.

Perhaps not, but most would say that your players are more naturally gifted than our players. You do employ a defensive system that is vaunted and has served you well in the past. The point I was making in response to another's comment is that UVA can't compete for talent with the conference's bluebloods, but our system makes us competitive with the talent we do have. If you took my remark as a disparagement of your team, your players, or your program, that was not my intent and I apologize.

No need to apologize around here. We just had a multipage thread dissecting their necessity and sincerity. As I noted above, I see the points folks are making and there is some truth in most of them. I appreciate what your coach has done, as I can only imagine what Boeheim would have done with the talent certain other teams have had for a sustained length of time.

 

[pulaski74]

No I didn't--that is a pretty far fetched misinterpretation on your part.

What I actually said sans fantasy land interpretation is that we tend to recruit few elite players, and surround them with guys who fit our defensive system. Historically, that bears out no matter what you'd like to pretend.

Even with increased [relative to our fairly small number of NBA players we've historically produce] number of NBA early entrants we've had, in general we tend not to have more than 1 NBA prospect on the team at any given time, and more specifically less than one who is actually playing an important role at any given time. For example, Dion and MCW were both on the 2012 team, but MCW didn't play.

The lone exception to that rule of thumb is Greene / Flynn, and we both know how their careers panned out. Otherwise you have Carmelo and a bunch of complimentary talent. Wes and a bunch of very good system role players. Dion and a bunch of role players. MCW and a similar bunch of role players. See the pattern?

And no, I don't count Devo, Harris, or Fab as NBA talents--nor as elite players.

I know that you are an NBA star chaser, and that you've expressed in the past how important it is that we continually crank out NBA prospects to bolster recruiting, but wishing doesn't make it so.

Your characterization about both Wes and Onganet demonstrates how far off base you are. I won't get started on you counting chickens about Ennis and Grant, and their respective NBA chances.
Carmelo and a bunch of complimentary talent. sorry, have to disagree on that
Agree to disagree about this topic. Again, wow.

 

[pulaski74]

 

[pulaski74]

didnt mean to get i
I didnt mean to get into your message, new at this, but i think melo had alot of talent surrounding him

 

[orangenirvana]

You have to love this post from thesabre

"I just really hate Syracuse. They flatter themselves by claiming co-elite status with Duke and UNC, when the reality is they're one fluke Carmelo title away from having nothing at all. So basically they're Maryland, albeit with a good team this year."

 

[RF2044]

didnt mean to get i

I didnt mean to get into your message, new at this, but i think melo had alot of talent surrounding him

Do you agree that Carmelo was the only NBA early entrant on that team?

Because that's what we were discussing above, not whether there were other talented players. The only other NBA player on that team was Hak, who stayed all four years and was a guy who improved incrementally over the course of his four year career. He was brought in as a raw prospect with great athleticism, which made him a system fit with lots of upside. And he maximized his potential over the course of his four year career in Orange, and parlayed that into a solid journeyman NBA career.

Nobody disputes that there was talent on that roster, but that's not the point being discussed. Players like GMac, Edelin, Pace, Duany, Forth, McNeil, etc. were all to varying degrees very important, talented players. But Carmelo was the only elite talent on that squad.

And that team serves as a perfect example of how our teams are typically constructed. One stud surrounded by a group of talented role playing system fits.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

The beauty of the situation at UVA is that we do not have to try to compete with the elite teams for talent. It is our system that allows us to be competitive. Because we are not loaded with Mcdonalds AAs, our players stay in the system longer and we gain the benefit of upper class leadership. Everyone has his own opinion about "one-and done" (and I live in Lexington KY, the one-and-done capital of the world) but I know that recruiting elite talent makes a coach's job much more difficult because of the constant turnover. UVA is beginning the see the benefits of Coach Bennett's system, as the seniors this year are from his first recruiting class. The game Saturday will pit Syracuse and its athletes (and famed zone D) against our system. You guys certainly have the pedigree and our hoops history cannot hold a candle to yours, but the excitement in Charlottesville is due to the fact that we believe we have solved the riddle about how to be competitive in the ACC. Good luck Saturday and I expect it to be a heck of a game. It's our Senior Day and we are sending off two of the most beloved and unselfish players in the history of our program.

The bolded part is an excellent point. Many teams never solve that. In the BE, Rutgers, SH, etc, never solved it, even with some decent talent, or an up and coming coach. Why hasn't NC. St or Md, with name brands in hoop, solved it the last decade? Pitt solved it by using the four and five year player, hedging their bets on easy games pre-season and over-aggressive D. It has worked for them for a decade, except for underachieving in the big dance.

If Virg can do the 4 year player, with a great system, it's kind of like how mid-majors have great teams, except Virg can recruit top 75-125, are still a good hoop brand, in a great conference...it's a recipe for success.

 

[pulaski74]

Do you agree that Carmelo was the only NBA early entrant on that team?

Because that's what we were discussing above, not whether there were other talented players. The only other NBA player on that team was Hak, who stayed all four years and was a guy who improved incrementally over the course of his four year career. He was brought in as a raw prospect with great athleticism, which made him a system fit with lots of upside. And he maximized his potential over the course of his four year career in Orange, and parlayed that into a solid journeyman NBA career.

Nobody disputes that there was talent on that roster, but that's not the point being discussed. Players like GMac, Edelin, Pace, Duany, Forth, McNeil, etc. were all to varying degrees very important, talented players. But Carmelo was the only elite talent on that squad.

And that team serves as a perfect example of how our teams are typically constructed. One stud surrounded by a group of talented role playing system fits.

Sorry man, I'll remember never to disagree w/ you again

 

[NKR1978]

This thread took an interesting turn. I've seen this commented about on the Sabre, so if any Virginia fans read this I totally understand how excited you are about this game and the way your season turned around. While our program's NCAA drought wasn't as long as yours, the period from 05-08 was brutal for us. The two first round flameouts followed by two NIT appearances. It was a low point and horrible not seeing our name called on Selection Sunday. Then our 09 team came around and we got to have real excitement for SU hoops again. So I hope Virginia fans enjoy the ride. They have a really good team that is playing great.

This is the most hyped game Virginia has played in probably forever. For us, it's the most hyped game since last Saturday. Excited to see how we respond to that crazy environment. I'm sure it will be nothing like Pitt, Duke, Storrs or Notre Dame when they've had good teams.

 

[Alsacs]

This thread took an interesting then. I've seen this commented about in the Sabre, so if any Virginia fans read this I totally understand how excited you are about this game and the way your season turned around. While our program's NCAA drought wasn't as long as yours, the period from 05-08 was brutal for us. The two first round flameouts followed by two NIT appearances. It was a low point and horrible not seeing our name called on Selection Sunday. Then our 09 team came around and we got to have real excitement for SU hoops again. So I hope Virginia fans enjoy the ride. They have a really good team that is playing great.

This is the most hyped game Virginia has played in probably forever. For us, it's the most hyped game since last Saturday. Excited to see how we respond to that crazy environment. I'm sure it will be nothing like Pitt, Duke, Storrs or Notre Dame when they've had good teams.

We basically had one bad recruiting class Nichols, McCrosky, Watkins, Roberts not live up their recruiting rankings and that made us decline for 4 years 2 of which we still won the BET and the other 2 were one of the first 4 out and if they had 68 teams like now we would have it made both times. UVA has been done for a while. They had a good 2006 season as a 4 seed and lost to Tennessee in Columbus, Ohio in the 2nd second round. However, I respect the program as UVA has a national brand that if they get their crap together should be a top half ACC team every year with the right coach. Laura Keeley my favorite non-ACC reporter even if she covers Duke showed that UVA isn't scheduled to play a team in the top 7 of the ACC standings 2 times, and while I realize that isn't UVA's fault just kinda shows their record is a little inflated even if they are IMO a top 3 ACC team this season. I think the first team to 50 wins and while they may think we are Maryland they are crazy if they do. We are fluke jumper in 1987 from winning the NC against Indiana and if we didn't face probably the best college team of the 90's in the 96 Final against that beyond stacked Kentucky team we would have more than 1 title. Maryland made 2 Final Fours the last 20 years and rode Dixon-Blake-Baxter-Wilcox-Morris to their 2 Final Fours and 1 NC and since 2002 they have done nothing of real significance on the national level. Syracuse is a top 10 basketball brand and we can rise even higher.

 

[NKR1978]

We basically had one bad recruiting class Nichols, McCrosky, Watkins, Roberts not live up their recruiting rankings and that made us decline for 4 years 2 of which we still won the BET and the other 2 were one of the first 4 out and if they had 68 teams like now we would have it made both times. UVA has been done for a while. They had a good 2006 season as a 4 seed and lost to Tennessee in Columbus, Ohio in the 2nd second round. However, I respect the program as UVA has a national brand that if they get their crap together should be a top half ACC team every year with the right coach. Laura Keeley my favorite non-ACC reporter even if she covers Duke showed that UVA isn't scheduled to play a team in the top 7 of the ACC standings 2 times, and while I realize that isn't UVA's fault just kinda shows their record is a little inflated even if they are IMO a top 3 ACC team this season. I think the first team to 50 wins and while they may think we are Maryland they are crazy if they do. We are fluke jumper in 1987 from winning the NC against Indiana and if we didn't face probably the best college team of the 90's in the 96 Final against that beyond stacked Kentucky team we would have more than 1 title. Maryland made 2 Final Fours the last 20 years and rode Dixon-Blake-Baxter-Wilcox-Morris to their 2 Final Fours and 1 NC and since 2002 they have done nothing of real significance on the national level. Syracuse is a top 10 basketball brand and we can rise even higher.

I was going for subtle condescension.

 

[sewdog]

I was going for subtle condescension.

We may be in first place currently, but your team has the higher ranking and gets more respect. UVA is #12 because voters don't believe. We have to win this game to validate our season, seemingly. That's fine. The lack of respect and attention have helped our guys keep their focus. There are lots of ways to take shots at the season UVA has had so far, but the fact remains that we played the games the league told us to play and we are winning games that past Virginia teams didn't win. And we are winning decisively. We killed Miami last night. They made 12 baskets the WHOLE GAME against our D. We won at Pitt. We went down to Florida and won games against the Florida schools for the first time in forever. We thumped UNC. We were one Amile Jefferson rebound away from beating Duke at Duke. This is stuff that Virginia hasn't done in two decades. That's why we are excited. Look at the rest of the ACC and even your own team. How did you lose to BC? That's life in the ACC (and was also life in the Big East). This is a major conference and we spend the season beating each other up. The middle of the pack in the ACC still is better than 75% of all the other teams in D1. Is Wichita State better than NC State? NCSU has an SOS of 26. WSU's SOS is 119. Hmmm. All this pre-game banter is great fun and I thank you for allowing me to hang out here for awhile. Those of you who visit thesabre.com and cherry pick an idiotic quote from one of our posters and bring it back here to illustrate what morons we are doing the rest of you a disservice. Believe me, UVA has great respect for Syracuse and we are fortunate to be able to have this very important game be a home game for us. Were the game at Syracuse I doubt the pundits would be giving us much of a chance. The schedule has worked to our benefit but still we had to make the most of the opportunity and so far we have. Let's tip this mother off and see what happens!

 

[Alsacs]

We may be in first place currently, but your team has the higher ranking and gets more respect. UVA is #12 because voters don't believe. We have to win this game to validate our season, seemingly. That's fine. The lack of respect and attention have helped our guys keep their focus. There are lots of ways to take shots at the season UVA has had so far, but the fact remains that we played the games the league told us to play and we are winning games that past Virginia teams didn't win. And we are winning decisively. We killed Miami last night. They made 12 baskets the WHOLE GAME against our D. We won at Pitt. We went down to Florida and won games against the Florida schools for the first time in forever. We thumped UNC. We were one Amile Jefferson rebound away from beating Duke at Duke. This is stuff that Virginia hasn't done in two decades. That's why we are excited. Look at the rest of the ACC and even your own team. How did you lose to BC? That's life in the ACC (and was also life in the Big East). This is a major conference and we spend the season beating each other up. The middle of the pack in the ACC still is better than 75% of all the other teams in D1. Is Wichita State better than NC State? NCSU has an SOS of 26. WSU's SOS is 119. Hmmm. All this pre-game banter is great fun and I thank you for allowing me to hang out here for awhile. Those of you who visit thesabre.com and cherry pick an idiotic quote from one of our posters and bring it back here to illustrate what morons we are doing the rest of you a disservice. Believe me, UVA has great respect for Syracuse and we are fortunate to be able to have this very important game be a home game for us. Were the game at Syracuse I doubt the pundits would be giving us much of a chance. The schedule has worked to our benefit but still we had to make the most of the opportunity and so far we have. Let's tip this mother off and see what happens!

Good natured trash talk is fine. However, I just hope the portion of your fanbase that thinks we are Maryland is actually very small. As I said above we are fluke jumper in the last 4 seconds in 1987 from winning that NC against Indiana and we played the most talented college team in the 90's in the 96 championship game. We are closer to Duke/UNC level than most realize we just needed to win those last games which we didn't. This game should be a good grind it out old Big East style of game as both teams strengths come from the defensive end, and most of SU fans have a respect for the UVA season we just feel that while we don't blow people away we typically take teams best punches and still find ways to win games. I think UVA can become a better version of Pitt who has been top 25ish under Dixon they rely on 4 and 5 yr players and make the tournament every season. Until UVA recruits top 25 classes I think they won't be a consistent ACC or NC contender, but should be a tournament team basically every year.

 

[RF2044]

Sorry man, I'll remember never to disagree w/ you again

I couldn't care less whether you disagree with me--this is a discussion board, after all.

I'm just not sure that we were actually disagreeing, b/c the position you took inferred something that I hadn't implied.