Virginia
- Thread starter NKR1978
- Start date
Again, you fail to provide any evidence for your claims. History is NOT a guaranteed indicator of the future in something like college basketball. The turnover from year to year is significant. The changes in team dynamics are incredibly significant. You can't state that because we've been mediocre for 17 years before this one (which I would happily debate, but that's for another post) that that alone is evidence that we will continue to be mediocre. I mean, I guess you could, but it's not in any way a compelling argument.
Our recruiting has much improved since Leito and even Gillen, but more importantly our player development has been tremendous. Akil Mitchell was a 2 star recruit who made 2nd team All-ACC last year. Williford has been amazing at developing our big men, and I'm afraid we will lose him in the near future to a HC gig somewhere.
And finally, CTB (Coach Tony Bennett) has improved each season he has been at the helm at UVa, winning more games overall and more games in the ACC in each subsequent year. I think that is much more important and relevant for the future of Virginia basketball than looking at the past 17 years.
As 01Hoo stated, we have a very different team from FSU from '12 and Miami from '13. There was an expected drop-off after those seasons ended. There isn't one for UVa after this season for the reasons stated above.
100% correct. Any message you read on the UVa boards that is saying otherwise is drinking too much of the kool aid. There are biased homers in every fan base.
We are an energized fan base that is excited about its basketball team for the first time in a long time, which I think is the main thing to take away from reading thesabre.
No? JB inherited a team that was decent and since has lead it to 20 + wins/season in 32 of the last 36 years. Seems like good consistency to me.
ThePoint
Scout Team
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2013
- Messages
- 483
- Like
- 1,548
A couple of questions for UVA fans:
1. Do you believe that Coach Bennett will play bleed the clock on offense Saturday?
2. What has changed from your OOC schedule to now to account for your team's current success?
To be clear - none of this is meant as a flame.
I think UVA has potential but they need a couple consecutive top 25 recruiting classes before they will be back year in year out. If Pitt can become an annual top 25 team their is no reason UVA can't do the same. I think UVA has the ability to recruit at a higher level than Pitt as well. 3 or 4 consecutive NCAA appearances would mean UVA is back for me. NC State is quietly trying to get their 3rd straight NCAA bid this year. The ACC needs more consistency from its middle class in basketball just like it does in football, but unlike football the ACC basketball brand will have 4 of the top 10 brands in college basketball next year with Duke, North Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville.
I was not discrediting Syracuse's basketball tradition, nor JB excellent coaching history. In fact, I have nothing but respect for Cuse and their fan base. I was pointing out the flaws in SU4life's straw man argument.
Syracuse's current success is not due strictly to their past. It's one of the top programs thanks to great recruiting, good player development, great fans, money in facilities, etc. But especially great in-game coaching.
To say it's solely due to history is not giving credit to all aspects of building (AND maintaining) a top level basketball program, some of which I listed above.
GoHoosGo
Walk On
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2014
- Messages
- 15
- Like
- 54
The recent past is probably the best indication of the near future, no? In that case, consider the state of the program Bennett inherited (a total mess, our previous coach was not good, to put it lightly), and take a look at his teams' records in the 5 seasons he's been at the helm:
2010: 15-16 (5-11)
2011: 16-15 (7-9)
2012: 22-10 (9-7) - NCAA Tournament appearance
2013: 23-12 (11-7) - NIT quarterfinals
2014: 23-5 (14-1) - NCAA tournament lock
There's a steady pattern of improvement there. It's taken Bennett some time to find the right mix of players as guys from the previous regime have transferred and graduated, but the steady continuity of the process is why many UVA fans believe he is building a program that will be here to stay as a competitor in a top-notch ACC conference. The fact that he was on a similar trajectory at WSU (and was named NCOY for it) is also heartening. Nobody is rationally claiming that we are all of a sudden going to unseat the Dukes and UNC's of the world as the conference's premier programs, but we are at least positioned to compete, which is far better than what we've had in years past when successful seasons were flashes in the pan surrounded by spells of mediocrity.
Good questions. Here's what I think:
1. No, but it may seem like it at times. The main priority of the offense is to get uncontested, high percentage shots if at all possible. I suspect with the effectiveness of the Cuse zone that could prove difficult, although if the offense is clicking we're certainly not against picking up the tempo some (see 25-0 run against Notre Dame Saturday in about 8-10 minutes). If we're getting to the end of the shot clock on offense, it won't be with a purpose of shortening the game but more because we're not finding shots we like.
2. A couple of things changed in my opinion - more defined roles, and less of a reliance on Joe Harris to score. Because Bennett has about 9 guys he's comfortable playing, early in the season the starting lineup was unsettled and there wasn't a clear flow to the substiution patterns. Additionally, anytime there was a lull in the offense, it was almost like the entire team looked to Harris to bail them out. Teams could key on him and shut us down for stretches. In the Florida State game, the first after the Tennessee debacle, Harris went out early with a concussion and the rest of the team seemingly realized they were good enough to compete and win without him. Since then we've been very balanced on offense and much harder to defend.
kingtidge
All American
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2011
- Messages
- 4,798
- Like
- 9,685
Sounds like a familiar story... Our cross-bearer when the rest of the offense is in a rut is CJ Fair.
However, in the last 3 weeks, he's hit his own wall with some slumping play. Has been better in the last couple games but got into foul trouble last game uncharacteristically...
Every year coaches return starting players from the year before. Some teams return more starting
UVA: We expect, we expect , we should , we
Time will tell!! I know for a fact that Syracuse will win on average 25 games per year. You know why? Because historically that is what we do. I know for a fact that SU will be in the hunt for a conference championship next year because historically that is what we do. Right now UVA's performance statistically is an anomaly of in regards to even recent history, in fact your program maybe at its historical apex right now. You that there will be no drop off for next year. How can you be so certain when it comes to sports. The only indicator of any sort of predictive value in sports is past performance. Hell, professional players enter into new contracts based on past performance, ranking for next year are based on past performance, and UVA's current ranking and lack of respect nationally is based on your past performance.
I dunno, I would say those attributes you mention are a direct result of the history of the program. It feeds its self. If there wasn't history why would a prospect want to come to snowy Syracuse? Or a booster donate? Or be able to fill up a 35k venue?
sewdog
Walk On
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Like
- 9
The beauty of the situation at UVA is that we do not have to try to compete with the elite teams for talent. It is our system that allows us to be competitive. Because we are not loaded with Mcdonalds AAs, our players stay in the system longer and we gain the benefit of upper class leadership. Everyone has his own opinion about "one-and done" (and I live in Lexington KY, the one-and-done capital of the world) but I know that recruiting elite talent makes a coach's job much more difficult because of the constant turnover. UVA is beginning the see the benefits of Coach Bennett's system, as the seniors this year are from his first recruiting class. The game Saturday will pit Syracuse and its athletes (and famed zone D) against our system. You guys certainly have the pedigree and our hoops history cannot hold a candle to yours, but the excitement in Charlottesville is due to the fact that we believe we have solved the riddle about how to be competitive in the ACC. Good luck Saturday and I expect it to be a heck of a game. It's our Senior Day and we are sending off two of the most beloved and unselfish players in the history of our program.
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,609
- Like
- 98,594
I'm not sure that the highlighted section above is an accurate depiction of our team. We are the ultimate system team.
sewdog
Walk On
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Like
- 9
Our rotation was not settled at the beginning of the season. We were giving meaningful minutes to 9-10 guys and I think our players were afraid that because of the depth, they would not be allowed to play through their mistakes. Additionally, Malcolm Brogdon, who has become our best player, was coming off a injury-dictated redshirt year. He showed some obvious rust in the early games, but he is clicking now. However, I believe the biggest change has been the emergence of London Perrantes at the point. He is a freshman and started the year playing behind Brogdon. Brogdon was playing PG at the beginning of the year and still gets a few minutes each game at that position but he is a natural 2. Perrantes is truly the player that makes us go. That should come as no surprise, as good PG play is an almost universal commonality among elite teams. After the much-talked about Tennessee game in which we got pasted, Coach Bennett shortened the rotation, put Perrantes into the starting lineup, and simplified the offense, The team, for its part, realized that it had no superstars and that a true team effort would be required for any kind of success. Since that realization a few coaching tweaks, we have been a different team.
chlywtr
2nd String
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 965
- Like
- 1,015
is weather really that great a factor when discussing a winter sport which is played inside???? it sure seems to be a big talking point when people try and bring up negatives regarding syracuse
pearl31
in cahoots
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2011
- Messages
- 15,009
- Like
- 35,833
Well, sorry our guys will ruin such a grand occasion for y'all. :noidea:
djcon57
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 15,348
- Like
- 54,424
People DIE IN CAR ACCIDENTS in the snow up here.
This is totally out of line to bring this up in regards to basketball recruiting.
Please stop joking about our weather
(Note: Above is parody to Twitter outburst to Shaffer's softnosed line. Please do not respond seriously)
sewdog
Walk On
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Like
- 9
Perhaps not, but most would say that your players are more naturally gifted than our players. You do employ a defensive system that is vaunted and has served you well in the past. The point I was making in response to another's comment is that UVA can't compete for talent with the conference's bluebloods, but our system makes us competitive with the talent we do have. If you took my remark as a disparagement of your team, your players, or your program, that was not my intent and I apologize.
pearl31
in cahoots
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2011
- Messages
- 15,009
- Like
- 35,833
HarrisonJBounel
All Conference
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 3,204
- Like
- 2,216
I think what sewdog meant is that UVA players stay four years (at least no one leaves early to go pro), learn Bennett's system, and provide senior leadership when their turn comes. Certainly JB is the consummate system coach, and some of our players stay four years (eg, CJ, BMK), but many do not, or will not. We now recruit top-shelf, or near top-shelf athletes that, if they blossom, head for the pros. UVA does not, or does not yet. To his point, there is a discernible difference in our relative programs in that respect. The difference may be more perception, but there is a difference.
sewdog
Walk On
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Like
- 9
That would be very ungracious of you. I would expect guests to be a little more respectful.
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,609
- Like
- 98,594
No need to apologize. I just want to point out that we aren't and haven't been a haven for one-and-dones like many other elite programs. We're a team that recruits to a defensive system first.
I agree we have good players / good athletes, and are known for that. But we're the ultimate system team--relying upon a blend of elite talents and system-oriented role players who develop over the course of a four year career.
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,609
- Like
- 98,594
Nonsense. "Many do not?" The vast majority stay four years., with very few historical exceptions over many years.
And in recent years, at least two players who "declared" for the draft weren't extended the option of returning.
Last edited:
