Washington Huskies

[OrangeDW]

You can’t really use the conference as a crutch when you lose to URI and Umass OOC. Maybe you’re just not good.

Im blanking but who else was a first rounder besides Donte that year?

 

[Alsacs]

When you lose to Umass, URI, and a pedestrian Ohio State out of conference the “monster conference” narrative loses its luster somewhat.

And, again, you seem to be making a huge distinction between the NIT and getting into the tournament as...what? a ten seed? Eleven? The point was underachieving with a lot of talent. If we have to dream of a scenario where the tournament was expanded or Georgia losing in order for that team to get in then that’s...not great.

Actually no it doesn't. We would have made the tournament under 2019 tournament field size. I don't think the 2008 team is a good comparison for this Washington team.
If 2019 Washington doesn't make the tournament they won't get in because they likely don't have enough quality wins. The 2008 Big East schedule added losses to the 2008 Syracuse team. 8 of the 18 BE games were against ranked teams.

Washington has played 1 game and against ranked conference opponent in Oregon. They will play 2 games against Arizona and that is it. 3 of the 18 games against ranked teams is not a hard schedule.
The 2008 Orange played almost half of its games against ranked teams and if I went by the last top 25 poll of that year its 9 of 18 as Pitt wasn't ranked when we lost to them.

That team was young playing in a brutal league. Washington needs to be better than 2-5 in the Pac-12 thru 7 games.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Im blanking but who else was a first rounder besides Donte that year?

Flynn was...eventually.

Fine I’m playing with the facts a little.

 

[Alsacs]

Im blanking but who else was a first rounder besides Donte that year?

Flynn the following year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Actually no it doesn't. We would have made the tournament under 2019 tournament field size. I don't think the 2008 team is a good comparison for this Washington team.
If 2019 Washington doesn't make the tournament they won't get in because they likely don't have enough quality wins. The 2008 Big East schedule added losses to the 2008 Syracuse team. 8 of the 18 BE games were against ranked teams.

Washington has played 1 game and against ranked conference opponent in Oregon. They will play 2 games against Arizona and that is it. 3 of the 18 games against ranked teams is not a hard schedule.
The 2008 Orange played almost half of its games against ranked teams and if I went by the last top 25 poll of that year its 9 of 18 as Pitt wasn't ranked when we lost to them.

That team was young playing in a brutal league. Washington needs to be better than 2-5 in the Pac-12 thru 7 games.

Alsacs the point is underachieving with talent and not necessarily a direct comparison to UW.

You want to try and argue that that team didn’t underachieve with the talent it had then fine.

We also had our fair share of loses to unranked teams in conference. So not sure about that argument either.

 

[Alsacs]

Alsacs the point is underachieving with talent and not necessarily a direct comparison to UW.

You want to try and argue that that team didn’t underachieve with the talent it had then fine.

I am just giving JB some credit it here.
The 2008 team makes the tournament this year.
I want Hop to replace JB as he has shown enough at UW to warrant the job IMO.

I am just being fair for all the crap JB has gotten from our side. Hop's team should be better. Those Pac-12 losses are brutal. They got swept by the Bay area teams. If you watched that Stanford game it was an epic chokejob just like last night. You can't lose an 11 point lead with 5 minutes to go.

Washington is probably the biggest underachiever outside of North Carolina this season.

 

[Gabjon]

I didn't watch the game, but 2 of UW starters fouled out.

They lost the foul shooting battle 32 attempts to 14.

So I would like to see the game before I start killing Hop on this one.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I didn't watch the game, but 2 of UW starters fouled out.

They lost the foul shooting battle 32 attempts to 14.

So I would like to see the game before I start killing Hop on this one.

By my extremely objective reasoning Hops players let him down. On the other hand Uconn lost to Houston purely because of coaching.

 

[Jake]

He is struggling no doubt. Learning curve issues right now. 6 losses by 6 points or fewer. I think not having Quade is part of it.

If Hop has a blind spot imo, it’s that he tends to undervalue shooting and over value athleticism in recruiting. You could see it here, especially in the years immediately following the NC.

He needs a dead eye...even if it’s a sacrifice on the defensive end of the court.

 

[Alsacs]

I didn't watch the game, but 2 of UW starters fouled out.

They lost the foul shooting battle 32 attempts to 14.

So I would like to see the game before I start killing Hop on this one.

Washington was up 7 with 2 minutes to go Utah guy drove to the hoop and got fouled. McDaniels from UW kicked another Utah player and got called for T and was fouled out on the T.

Utah made all 4 FTs and then scored after getting the ball back on the T. Went from 7 to 1 and Washington was able to recover.
Washington was up 5 with 50 seconds left. They gagged. Washington missed two 1 and 1s to salt the game. Utah scored off both misses and then Utah won on bank off the glass shot and 1.

It was an epic gag job. This board would have been lit up.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Gotta admit watching the last two Washington losses/meltdowns looked an awful lot like that Ga Tech game Hopkins coached when JB was suspended when we blew a late lead and lost in OT. Not laying all the blame at his feet but I find it hard to believe JB loses all three of those games as the HC. Tough spot for him right now with an under achieving team in a pretty weak conference.

 

[Gabjon]

By my extremely objective reasoning Hops players let him down. On the other hand Uconn lost to Houston purely because of coaching.

It is rare that a zone team loses the foul shooting battle that badly. There have been games where Stewart has shot 14fts by himself.

Like I said I didn't see the game, but a condensed version showed Utah going to the line time and again in the last 5 minutes, it didn't show the actual fouls though.

 

[orangecuse]

He is struggling no doubt. Learning curve issues fight now. 6 losses by 6 points or fewer. I think not having Quade is part of it.

If Hop has a blind spot imo, it’s that he tends to undervalue shooting and over value athleticism in recruiting. You could see it here, especially in the years immediately following the NC.

He needs a dead eye...even if it’s a sacrifice on the defensive end of the court.

Interesting. Considering Hop was not an athletic type himself, but more of a solid skill set of shooting, passing, etc. Along with his high drive, grittiness and fire in going all out, diving for loose balls, etc.

 

[JeremyCuse]

He is struggling no doubt. Learning curve issues fight now. 6 losses by 6 points or fewer. I think not having Quade is part of it.

If Hop has a blind spot imo, it’s that he tends to undervalue shooting and over value athleticism in recruiting. You could see it here, especially in the years immediately following the NC.

He needs a dead eye...even if it’s a sacrifice on the defensive end of the court.

Excellent point about the shooting Jake, while we haven't been totally void of shooters while Hop was here we certainly didn't have a ND type of squad with multiple shooters starting and off the bench outside of maybe the 2009 team or one of the Southerland years. While this year has been a struggle at times its been a breath of fresh air to have at least 3 guys who can shoot 3 from pretty much anywhere and when they pull up your first thought isn't "oh god no".

 

[Gabjon]

He is struggling no doubt. Learning curve issues fight now. 6 losses by 6 points or fewer. I think not having Quade is part of it.

If Hop has a blind spot imo, it’s that he tends to undervalue shooting and over value athleticism in recruiting. You could see it here, especially in the years immediately following the NC.

He needs a dead eye...even if it’s a sacrifice on the defensive end of the court.

I agree in general but they shot 45% from 3, 9-20 (Utah 3-24)

They shot 51% from the field overall 23-45 (Utah 20-59)

They were killed on the glass giving up 18 offensive rebounds and only getting 5

They lost the TO battle 17 TOs to 10 for Utah.

Utah was +13 at the line

 

[IthacaMatt]

Its stunning to watch how these 2 teams have changed course since the beginning of the season. opening night win over Baylor who is now #1. Cuse got hammered by Def NC UVA. UW now sinking like a stone in a weak Pac 12 with I believe 2 mock 1st rd picks in Stewart and Carter. Inexcusable really

Hopkins has some charisma to sign guys, but man he is struggling to finish games and get wins. Its the classic he can recruit but cant coach.

Contrast that with JB who has lost he recruiting touch at his advanced age, but man, he can scout and make adjustments for that 2nd matchup with teams that beat him previously, see his 3-0 record in rematches this year.

I think you should pump the brakes there. Hop won the Pac-12 in his first 2 seasons and was coach of the year both times. Last year, he won the regular season title by a 3 game margin. Unheard of.
This year, maybe he has a loaded roster, but sometimes too many stars don't make a team.

 

[supp]

Excellent point about the shooting Jake, while we haven't been totally void of shooters while Hop was here we certainly didn't have a ND type of squad with multiple shooters starting and off the bench outside of maybe the 2009 team or one of the Southerland years. While this year has been a struggle at times its been a breath of fresh air to have at least 3 guys who can shoot 3 from pretty much anywhere and when they pull up your first thought isn't "oh god no".

Neither Boeheim nor Hop have been great at constructing a roster recently. And if Carey is healthy, do we see as much of Girard as we have? Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you make your luck. A bit of both going on at SU this year. Hop had things fall into place for him the past two. Not so much this year.

 

[721Comstock]

I think you should pump the brakes there. Hop won the Pac-12 in his first 2 seasons and was coach of the year both times. Last year, he won the regular season title by a 3 game margin. Unheard of.
This year, maybe he has a loaded roster, but sometimes too many stars don't make a team.

Well, yeah - but especially if 1 of those stars is NOT a PG.
Our '89-'90 team says HAI.

You know, the one that had Michael Edwards/Stevie Thompson at PG, rather than Kenny Anderson.
With All-World Senior Derrick Coleman, and Soph Billy Owens.

... what could have been...

 

[br801]

Neither Boeheim nor Hop have been great at constructing a roster recently. And if Carey is healthy, do we see as much of Girard as we have? Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you make your luck. A bit of both going on at SU this year. Hop had things fall into place for him the past two. Not so much this year.

I think some people don't appreciate how fine a line there can be between a successful season and an unsatisfying one.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I'm old enough to remember when they used to say that JB can recruit but can't coach.

Yup...79-86...reaching a crescendo after losing to Navy at home...subsided after '87 but, 88, 90 and, by 91, had reached a full-throated roar again...probation tempered expectations...

'96 pretty much changed people's perceptions of JB in terms of coaching ability...

 

[supp]

I think some people don't appreciate how fine a line there can be between a successful season and an unsatisfying one.

Yep. Read SWC's transcript from last night's show with Boeheim. The kids we have on the court now have really stepped it up since January but if you think that this was the "plan" that Boeheim had hatched for the season...well not really. He's still prioritizing defense and maybe for good reason given what we've got coming up. But relying on SU just outscoring teams...that's not part of his thinking even now.

 

[supp]

Yup...79-86...reaching a crescendo after losing to Navy at home...subsided after '87 but, 88, 90 and, by 91, had reached a full-throated roar again...probation tempered expectations...

'96 pretty much changed people's perceptions of JB in terms of coaching ability...

Rhode Island...brutal. I remember people in town calling for Tom Penders as coach.

 

[Cuseball]

Washington was up 7 with 2 minutes to go Utah guy drove to the hoop and got fouled. McDaniels from UW kicked another Utah player and got called for T and was fouled out on the T.

Utah made all 4 FTs and then scored after getting the ball back on the T. Went from 7 to 1 and Washington was able to recover.
Washington was up 5 with 50 seconds left. They gagged. Washington missed two 1 and 1s to salt the game. Utah scored off both misses and then Utah won on bank off the glass shot and 1.

It was an epic gag job. This board would have been lit up.

excellent summary. No debating at all that this was an epic gag job and there have been a couple like this recently. Had nothing to do with Utah shooting more free throws. Game was over and then it wasn’t.
Cuse

 

[nyucuse]

He is struggling no doubt. Learning curve issues right now. 6 losses by 6 points or fewer. I think not having Quade is part of it.

If Hop has a blind spot imo, it’s that he tends to undervalue shooting and over value athleticism in recruiting. You could see it here, especially in the years immediately following the NC.

He needs a dead eye...even if it’s a sacrifice on the defensive end of the court.

Give Hop Eli, or even Buddy. Or give JB IS.. there's a reason the band was so good before Yoko..

 

[JOC44]

Rhode Island...brutal. I remember people in town calling for Tom Penders as coach.

I remember hearing that Penders got Dick Vitale to tout him on national TV as a potential JB replacement the second the Fat Rob Johnson investigation started.