Watching how bad Penn St is/ was makes me

[K Otto XLIV]

Disagree Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, can all be superpower teams thanks to the brands. Those teams can recruit anywhere in the nation. Florida State got stale because Bowden stayed to long, Ohio State w/ Meyer will always have a dominant offense. Michigan with Harbaugh will be elite.

I would agree on Miami, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Penn State though they aren't getting back to superpower status.

Forgot to mention Ohio State. They will be a superpower as well. I don't think Michigan can get there. There is too much parity and not enough local recruiting. Ohio State can pull it off because they have a great HC and are willing to cut corners. Look at who their last two HCs have been. Harbaugh doesn't fit that mold. He will use a pro style O and he hasn't shown that he can recruit. Minus Andrew Luck what he built at Stanford is on par with Michigan State. Unless he keeps getting top QBs I don't see Michigan being any better than Wisconsin. That is good but not good enough to beat out Ohio State.

 

[Millhouse]

I hope you meant PSU, and not SU.

whoops

the dome wants to hire me to design their turf after that post

 

[SWC75]

Disagree Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, can all be superpower teams thanks to the brands. Those teams can recruit anywhere in the nation. Florida State got stale because Bowden stayed to long, Ohio State w/ Meyer will always have a dominant offense. Michigan with Harbaugh will be elite.

I would agree on Miami, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Penn State though they aren't getting back to superpower status.

I wouldn't underestimate the football factories. They can be down but they are never out. I remember reading 20 years ago that USC would never be a power again because the neighborhood they were in has deteriorated and nobody wants to go there any more. Then came the Pete Carroll era. Oklahoma stunk in the 90's and became perennials NC contenders in the next decade. Alabama was dumpster fire until Saban got there. Miami was down in the late 90's and came roaring back. There are reasons why some schools have been elite over the years and those reason don't go away with a rough patch.

I think the most vulnerable powerhouse school is probably Nebraska simply because they have to import top talent from other areas. Most powerhouse schools are right in the middle or prime recruiting areas. Penn State will be Penn State again when they get the right coach. Michigan and Michigan State get much of their talent from Ohio are are rarely good at the same time. It doesn't help Oklahoma, much less Texas to have so many good teams in Texas right now and if the big three in Florida all get going again, Georgia, Alabama and Auburn probably won't be as good. But they won't go away.

 

[Millhouse]

I wouldn't underestimate the football factories. They can be down but they are never out. I remember reading 20 years ago that USC would never be a power again because the neighborhood they were in has deteriorated and nobody wants to go there any more. Then came the Pete Carroll era. Oklahoma stunk in the 90's and became perennials NC contenders in the next decade. Alabama was dumpster fire until Saban got there. Miami was down in the late 90's and came roaring back. There are reasons why some schools have been elite over the years and those reason don't go away with a rough patch.

I think the most vulnerable powerhouse school is probably Nebraska simply because they have to import top talent from other areas. Most powerhouse schools are right in the middle or prime recruiting areas. Penn State will be Penn State again when they get the right coach. Michigan and Michigan State get much of their talent from Ohio are are rarely good at the same time. It doesn't help Oklahoma, much less Texas to have so many good teams in Texas right now and if the big three in Florida all get going again, Georgia, Alabama and Auburn probably won't be as good. But they won't go away.

i agree with this. what historical powers have stopped being powers outside of ivies and army? maybe this time is different but the powers keep being the powers

minnesota maybe?

 

[MikeSU02]

My cousin is a walk-on at PSU. Apparently, most of the team hates Franklin and thinks the staff is a bunch of amateurs, especially the OC. Won't be surprised to see a lot of transfers after this season and the QB turn pro, even if his stock is hurt because the offense sucks. They all loved O'Brien.

There has been an ongoing issue with what is presented to the public and what is really going on. This isn't necessarily different from other schools, but the degree to which it is occurring in the locker room versus what is portrayed is very different.

The story after the sanctions came out made it seem like the team banded together and vowed to get through it, in the face of all the external programs trying to get kids to transfer and sanctions and press (etc etc).

A lot of the kids, to their credit, were not as enamored with the 'rah-rah, stick it out as a team' crap that was being said. All you have to do is look at what coaches were retained to know how close PSU was to losing a significant number of important players that would have rendered them irrelevant in the near term, with a longer-lasting impact.

They are lucky to even be where they are.

But to then hire Franklin, with his history, after what had transpired, is the height of hubris.

 

[Chip]

I wouldn't underestimate the football factories. They can be down but they are never out. I remember reading 20 years ago that USC would never be a power again because the neighborhood they were in has deteriorated and nobody wants to go there any more. Then came the Pete Carroll era. Oklahoma stunk in the 90's and became perennials NC contenders in the next decade. Alabama was dumpster fire until Saban got there. Miami was down in the late 90's and came roaring back. There are reasons why some schools have been elite over the years and those reason don't go away with a rough patch.

I think the most vulnerable powerhouse school is probably Nebraska simply because they have to import top talent from other areas. Most powerhouse schools are right in the middle or prime recruiting areas. Penn State will be Penn State again when they get the right coach. Michigan and Michigan State get much of their talent from Ohio are are rarely good at the same time. It doesn't help Oklahoma, much less Texas to have so many good teams in Texas right now and if the big three in Florida all get going again, Georgia, Alabama and Auburn probably won't be as good. But they won't go away.

Everyone seems to agree on Nebraska.

And I agree with everyone.

I think what they built will be hard to build again at that level.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

IMO there is a difference between superpower and power. Since their unexpected title in 1997, Michigan would have made the theoretical college football playoffs ONE time: in 2003 (assuming they beat Purdue in the CG). In the last 23 seasons they would have had only 2 appearances (assuming they beat Purdue in the 1997 CG). They really haven't been a superpower since Schembechler left.

I expect Harbaugh to have Michigan playing for access bowls every year. The difference is that I expect Meyer to be playing for a playoff spot every year.

Penn State is just as bad. They would have made it in 2005 (assuming they beat Northwestern in the CG) and in 1994 (assuming they beat Wisconsin in the CG). That would 2 appearances in the last 24 seasons. They really haven't been the same since they joined the B1G.

Most programs would kill to be Michigan and Penn State. The fact that they COULD make the college football playoffs is something that most schools can only dream of. But I think both programs are a step below other schools and I don't see that changing because of culture and a lack of local talent.

 

[Alsacs]

Super power programs: Alabama,Auburn, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, USC
Atleast 1 NC or multiple NC appearances in the BCS Era.

Power programs: Michigan, Georgia, UCLA, Texas A&M, Penn State, Miami, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Clemson, Tennessee, Notre Dame
Multiple BCS appearances

One step below: Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, rest of the SEC outside of Kentucky/Vanderbilt, Michigan State, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State.

That is how I would tier it now.

 

[SWC75]

IMO there is a difference between superpower and power. Since their unexpected title in 1997, Michigan would have made the theoretical college football playoffs ONE time: in 2003 (assuming they beat Purdue in the CG). In the last 23 seasons they would have had only 2 appearances (assuming they beat Purdue in the 1997 CG). They really haven't been a superpower since Schembechler left.

I expect Harbaugh to have Michigan playing for access bowls every year. The difference is that I expect Meyer to be playing for a playoff spot every year.

Penn State is just as bad. They would have made it in 2005 (assuming they beat Northwestern in the CG) and in 1994 (assuming they beat Wisconsin in the CG). That would 2 appearances in the last 24 seasons. They really haven't been the same since they joined the B1G.

Most programs would kill to be Michigan and Penn State. The fact that they COULD make the college football playoffs is something that most schools can only dream of. But I think both programs are a step below other schools and I don't see that changing because of culture and a lack of local talent.

My dream is that the eastern schools regain their sense and form a New Big East:
Boston College, Syracuse, Army, Navy, Connecticut and Rutgers, Penn State, Temple, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and maybe Cincinnati and Louisville.
Natural rivalries and the Northeast is once again on the college sports map. It won't happen, of course. That's what makes it a dream.

 

[SWC75]

Super power programs: Alabama,Auburn, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, USC
Atleast 1 NC or multiple NC appearances in the BCS Era.

Power programs: Michigan, Georgia, UCLA, Texas A&M, Penn State, Miami, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Clemson, Tennessee, Notre Dame
Multiple BCS appearances

One step below: Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, rest of the SEC outside of Kentucky/Vanderbilt, Michigan State, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State.

That is how I would tier it now.

I think the first two groups change from time to time with some of those teams moving back and fourth between them. They will change again.

 

[Alsacs]

I think the first two groups change from time to time with some of those teams moving back and fourth between them. They will change again.

No doubt Miami in 2003 would be in the top group and Oregon obviously not.
I just buy Oregon stock right now and would be a hold on Miami.

 

[SWC75]

i agree with this. what historical powers have stopped being powers outside of ivies and army? maybe this time is different but the powers keep being the powers

minnesota maybe?

I did this a couple of years ago. It might be helpful in determine who the historical powerhouses have been.

I was watching some old college football clips on U-Tube and I wondered how the great powers of the sport really stack up against each other over the years. I decided to take the Associated Press, (writer’s) Poll final rankings from 1936, when it started, to 2012, (the last full year before this) and “add them up” with a 25 points for first place, 24 for second, etc. system to determine which schools had done the best in the rankings over the years. I stuck with the writers because I wanted one source for the rankings to avoid confusion. They are usually not so different from each other that it would make a noticeable difference if I used the coaches poll instead. And I didn’t want to use the various mathematical systems and other rankings on the net because they represent a more personalized point of view, (for example James Howell, whom I have used for other things, tends, for some reason, to downgrade Midwestern teams in the pre-war period ). The writer’s poll is itself an accumulation of opinions from knowledgeable sources so it will do for this project.

Note: The writer’s poll was a Top 20 from 1936- 1961, a Top 10 from 1962-67, a Top 20 again from 1968-88 and has been a Top 25 since 1989. I nonetheless gave 25 points for 1st place, 24 for second place, etc. for every year. We are missing some teams from the bottom of the list prior to 1989 but a national championship is still a national championship in any era.

The All-Time Top 25:

Oklahoma 974
Alabama 958
Michigan 943
Notre Dame 919
Ohio State 890

Nebraska 784
So California 782
Texas 772
Tennessee 679
Penn State 667

Louisiana St. 580
Georgia 531
Auburn 526
Miami (Fla) 503
UCLA 483

Florida 488
Florida State 486
Arkansas 439
Michigan State 381
Texas A&M 357

Washington 341
Georgia Tech 325
Mississippi 322
Wisconsin 305
Clemson 300


Syracuse? 191.

 

[tep624]

http://deadspin.com/james-franklin-claims-he-lied-about-seeing-vanderbilt-r-1643928752

A BuzzFeed report from Sept. 2013 claimed that a source close to one of the dismissed players said a player showed the video to Franklin, who told him to delete it. Franklin denied this claim through his attorney, Hal Hardin.

He's such a creep. It just blows my mind that Penn State admin would think he was an appropriate person to hire for that role in light of where he and they had both come from.

 

[Briancuse]

If PSU does not go 6-6 this year, I do not expect to see Franklin there next year. That is one school that has unlimited money and alumni backing to bring in whoever the hell they want to win now.

I really can't see psu giving up on Franklin after two years.

 

[Trueblue25]

lets go buffalo.

 

[longtimefan]

i agree with this. what historical powers have stopped being powers outside of ivies and army? maybe this time is different but the powers keep being the powers

minnesota maybe?

If you're going back to the '30's, how about Pitt?

 

[wfschrec]

If you're going back to the '30's, how about Pitt?

They did win a title during the Marino era but that being said ... yeah its been a while.

 

[JoeCollege]

My dream is that the eastern schools regain their sense and form a New Big East:
Boston College, Syracuse, Army, Navy, Connecticut and Rutgers, Penn State, Temple, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and maybe Cincinnati and Louisville.
Natural rivalries and the Northeast is once again on the college sports map. It won't happen, of course. That's what makes it a dream.

Don't forget Fordham. They were a power back when Army was. Since Tristan's NYU plans never came to fruition, they might help us lock up the Bronx market.

 

[Orangello]

Karma baby

 

[Ottoble]

If you're going back to the '30's, how about Pitt?

Or Colgate two national titles. Do you know how many football titles SU would have from the early 20th century except for losing to Colgate? Try 4 or 5 we had 5 undefeated seasons except for colgate between 1915 and 1940.