We’re just unlucky too

[kcsu]

If we could play man we win going away. Last time we tried, we got our doors blown off by a Division 8 team, in our building.

My gosh wasn't that before Buddy was born.

 

[kcsu]

Also, Boeheim planned and executed 9/11.

No. But he did plan Hops departure.

 

[br801]

No. But he did plan Hops departure.

Still not sure why you're allowed to pollute this board on a regular basis.

 

[sugrad68]

C'mon.

How many teams put up ridiculous perimeter shooting performances against us this year??

Player after player getting career highs...

If it was an one off anomaly freak performance ok, but it happened way too often.

It was not a coincidence.

True. So true. When it happens as often as it did this year, it is not an anomaly. The college basketball game has changed. Many teams playing 4 guards, all of whom can shoot from deep, and a single forward. I am not sure whether SU's zone is no longer effective against such teams or this year's SU team was not as effective as other recent SU teams in playing the zone.

 

[Zepharus]

C'mon.

How many teams put up ridiculous perimeter shooting performances against us this year??

Player after player getting career highs...

If it was an one off anomaly freak performance ok, but it happened way too often.

It was not a coincidence.

OPEN... SHOTS ALL YEAR LONG = BAD D zone or Man. BAD

 

[samspann1]

I'm not going to look up all those games, but I just looked up Old Dominion. They shot 36% from 3 against us. If that is the definition of getting lit up then half the country gets lit up from 3 every game.

Perhaps we've been a little too spoiled with our great defenses lately to have real perspective on this issue?

ODU shot above their season average from 3-pt range against us, which would lead one to believe that our perimeter D didn't really bother them, or it bothered them less than that of the rest of their opponents.

 

[Cusefan0307]

6 FREAKING YEARS AGO...these kids were in grade school then

Actually it was 10 years ago...

 

[Sherman20]

Jim Boeheim is a syracuse legend.

He is syracuse basketball.

I have followed him since he took over the program when I was 5 years old. My father and grandfather went to SU and I grew up in a heavily pro-orange household.

I've said no such thing about his success and results. He has built this program and deserves all the credit for it.

I HAVE said that going exclusively zone in the current college game is showing more and more limitations.

The game has changed, recruiting has changed, and we should change with it.

If that is viewed by some as some sort of heresy or blasphemy, so be it.

It's not that at all.

It's a difference of opinion.

That is a fair and reasonable point and well articulated. I don’t agree at this moment in time (because our overall defensive numbers are very good) but you could be right. I’m way more concerned about the stagnant offense and the lack of ball movement, diversity, creativity in play calling. I’m also concerned about recruiting and player development. Hope we see a turnaround next season and that the new recruits can have an impact.

 

[kingtidge]

That is a fair and reasonable point and well articulated. I don’t agree at this moment in time (because our overall defensive numbers are very good) but you could be right. I’m way more concerned about the stagnant offense and the lack of ball movement, diversity, creativity in play calling. I’m also concerned about recruiting and player development. Hope we see a turnaround next season and that the new recruits can have an impact.

Fair assessment and I don't disagree that the stagnant offense is also a problem.

I think a lot of that has to do with the players we have and how JAB coaches offense.

He's treats the players like pros. That works great when you have a handful of highly skilled players with good floor IQs that can beat their man, have vision and pass, and do the basics exceedingly well.

We've had those teams in the past and the success that comes with it.

Right now, we have tier 2 level talent (with exception of TB).

Those types of players need a lot more hands on coaching to be successful.

Pick and roll sweeps from players that can't beat their man or get separation... Can't see or make the pass necessary in open seams and players that can't receive those passes and finish with them... The offense is designed for more talented players, sadly. (MD the exception from a vision and passing perspective... We need more slovaks!)

But on a good night, it sometimes clicks when we face teams that can't or won't defend us like glue.

We need better recruits.

All that said, we also have a laziness that sets in in some games. Almost like the team collectively decides they can't compete and drop their effort level.

It may be frustration with the offensive set not working, overall speed of play not being adequate, etc., but we've seen teams that ratchet up defensive pressure completely shutdown our already anemic offense.

That's what bothers me most. Not losing, but getting our doors blown off because we've dropped our effort and accepted a loss.

Having a true floor general at PG is part of the issue.

Frank has never been that leader.

 

[TinyManInside]

Dudes catching the ball with their feet set, squared to the basket, within 25 feet, shooting with a defender 6-8 feet away from them, is not luck. It is skill. Nowadays every team has 3 to 5 guys who can do this. The difference is just whether the team is patient enough with good enough ballhandlers and passers to execute an offense to get these shots. A lot of teams aren't, and we beat them. A lot of teams are, and we lose.

 

[samspann1]

Dudes catching the ball with their feet set, squared to the basket, within 25 feet, shooting with a defender 6-8 feet away from them, is not luck. It is skill. Nowadays every team has 3 to 5 guys who can do this. The difference is just whether the team is patient enough with good enough ballhandlers and passers to execute an offense to get these shots. A lot of teams aren't, and we beat them. A lot of teams are, and we lose.

Well said.

 

[djcon57]

Dudes catching the ball with their feet set, squared to the basket, within 25 feet, shooting with a defender 6-8 feet away from them, is not luck. It is skill. Nowadays every team has 3 to 5 guys who can do this. The difference is just whether the team is patient enough with good enough ballhandlers and passers to execute an offense to get these shots. A lot of teams aren't, and we beat them. A lot of teams are, and we lose.

They don’t want to hear it

 

[Cusefan0307]

Dudes catching the ball with their feet set, squared to the basket, within 25 feet, shooting with a defender 6-8 feet away from them, is not luck. It is skill. Nowadays every team has 3 to 5 guys who can do this. The difference is just whether the team is patient enough with good enough ballhandlers and passers to execute an offense to get these shots. A lot of teams aren't, and we beat them. A lot of teams are, and we lose.

Nope. We don’t have 3-5 guys who can do this.

 

[djcon57]

Nope. We don’t have 3-5 guys who can do this.

We destroyed zones all year

 

[TinyManInside]

Nope. We don’t have 3-5 guys who can do this.

Obviously I'm exaggerating a little, but most GOOD teams have that. I would say Hughes and Boeheim fit this mold of guys who can make a lightly guarded three pointer given the space and shot setup. Howard and Battle, hard to say, because often the threes they shot weren't within the mold of what I was describing above. Both were often shooting late in the shot clock when the offense (such as it is) had broken down and we're in "avoid shot clock violation" mode.

 

[Marty McFly]

Our offense might have this too, but we rarely see good offensive sets, for anyone to notice. If a player gets hot its, great, but not great "offense" in terms of set plays. I think our D this year, was very sub par. it was one of the main reasons we let teams get into a comfort zone. (aside from UVA, VA Tech, and Mason from baylor). Bad rotations, not hustling, poor effort leads to what Mason describes above. You still have to make the shot, but I think our poor perimeter D was exploited a ton this year. Granted we were decent which just goes to prove Tiny's point that not a lot of teams have 3-5 dudes that can score consistently from outside.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

My gosh wasn't that before Buddy was born.

No, but again, thats not the point. But, either way, if it was 10 years ago, does that make it more or less likely that we could just pick it up and play it effectively now? And who’s going to actually coach it, since JB is largely a ‘supervisor’ according to practice reports. How much did Hopkins contribute in that area?

 

[Kowbelkat]

No, but again, thats not the point. But, either way, if it was 10 years ago, does that make it more or less likely that we could just pick it up and play it effectively now? And who’s going to actually coach it, since JB is largely a ‘supervisor’ according to practice reports. How much did Hopkins contribute in that area?

Kids play probably 90% mtm in hs b-ball do I guess they lose the ability as soon as they drive into the 315

 

[tipphill]

People may say I’m crazy but Baylor 1/10 today from 3 and have had some open looks. Teams were extra lucky vs us this year too. It happens. UConn even went Bizerk vs us

no we are bad -- and will remain so

 

[doc05]

Yeah, it's just all a lucky coincidence that teams get "extra lucky" for some reason against our vaunted zone -- must have leprechauns on their benches adorned with four leaf clovers.

 

[OrangeDW]

Kids play probably 90% mtm in hs b-ball do I guess they lose the ability as soon as they drive into the 315

It’s a team defense. If they haven’t practiced and played it as a team, they won’t be good at it. It takes a ton of practice.

 

[CsonkaStash]

Yeah, it's just all a lucky coincidence that teams get "extra lucky" for some reason against our vaunted zone -- must have leprechauns on their benches adorned with four leaf clovers.

No you’re right there is zero luck involved in 72% from 3 and two banked 3s going in against Baylor. That’s all because of the zone. Even Ucon who’s a terrible shooting team, it’s all the zones fault, give me a break

 

[CsonkaStash]

no we are bad -- and will remain so

Wow who brought the Debbie Downer to the party