We go as our Seniors go

[anglerman]

Fans are dillusional when they believe every lost is the coaches fault or some different decision would have changed the outcome. Sometimes you just lose and anyone arguing that JS should have played more IN A GAME HE FOULED OUT OF and the was a coaching issue does not understand basic logic. The COACH wanted him to play more but the RULES OF THE GAME prevented that for happening!

I'm not talking about just one game. I'm aware of what transpired in that game.

 

[asj410]

I would be glad to. Let's start with that JS a better defender and rebounder. He also wasn't the turnover machine that Joseph was. Lastly I also thought he was a betteer scorer. Sorry if these facts were obvious to me and they weren't to you. I saw what I saw and I'm sorry if some find this offensive.

With MCW I saw a player that had a skill set that I had not previously seen in an SU uniform. I'm thinking that I wasn't blind he's exactly the player I thought he was. i can respect the fact that maybe JB really didn't play him because he didn't want him to jump to the NBA and be left without a guard for this year. For those that think he wasn't the talent he is now weren't watching the games.

Good grief.

 

[rrlbees]

I would be glad to. Let's start with that JS a better defender and rebounder. He also wasn't the turnover machine that Joseph was. Lastly I also thought he was a betteer scorer. Sorry if these facts were obvious to me and they weren't to you. I saw what I saw and I'm sorry if some find this offensive.

With MCW I saw a player that had a skill set that I had not previously seen in an SU uniform. I'm thinking that I wasn't blind he's exactly the player I thought he was. i can respect the fact that maybe JB really didn't play him because he didn't want him to jump to the NBA and be left without a guard for this year. For those that think he wasn't the talent he is now weren't watching the games.

Jb watched the games AND practices.

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[br801]

I would be glad to. Let's start with that JS a better defender and rebounder. He also wasn't the turnover machine that Joseph was. Lastly I also thought he was a betteer scorer. Sorry if these facts were obvious to me and they weren't to you. I saw what I saw and I'm sorry if some find this offensive.

With MCW I saw a player that had a skill set that I had not previously seen in an SU uniform. I'm thinking that I wasn't blind he's exactly the player I thought he was. i can respect the fact that maybe JB really didn't play him because he didn't want him to jump to the NBA and be left without a guard for this year. For those that think he wasn't the talent he is now weren't watching the games.

You answered none of my questions. But you did continue to spin your little fantasies. No need to take this further.

 

[Gabjon]

I'm not talking about just one game. I'm aware of what transpired in that game.

We only lost 3 so point to one of the other 2 games and make a serious argument that Kris or Scoop cost us that game...Let me help you out...you can't therefore your point is baseless.

 

[ClamOtto]

We were the #1 seed in the east with a top 5 team in Ohio State as #2. Beating ND and Cincy would not have changed that one iota. The only things that could have possibly changed the outcome of last season were 1) No Fab suspension, obviously, and 2) having a credible officiating crew in the elite 8. As was already pointed out, James fouled out of the elite 8. Regardless of what you think about MCW and Southerland, playing them more couldn't have possibly have improved the ultimate outcome of last season (though it could have made it worse).

 

[bozophobe]

Joseph was somehow unsatisfying - but that's due to Boeheim somewhat; in that some of his offenses often leave one guy as a "roamer." CJ is sort of that guy this year. Ultimately, it's the coach's responsibility to specifically run plays through certain people if they are going to have a major impact, no?

As far as JS goes, he was still extremely erratic last year in most areas of the game. I do admit I've long wished that Boeheim would play his bench a little more during the Big East season (Sonny Spera! Michael Brown! Earl Duncan! Keith Hughes! Tony Scott!), so that the bench might be better by tournament time. But by the time Bobby Lazor came here, I started to (think I) see what Coach B says he sees. Lazor did well at Ariz. St., but that was someone else's system. I personally think Boeheim was still a little over his head around the time Coleman and Seikaly showed up, but that he noticeably continued to evolve (as we all should hope to, heh) as an efficient coach (as opposed to a brilliantly far-sighted coach; more on that later). By the time of Hill/Reafsnyder and Forth/McNeil, I was no longer falling into the trap of either/or. He used both sets nicely.

But Scoop, like others said, really became solid as the year progressed. Heroic shots (if ill advised) - but almost no bonehead plays either. And MCW also had just as big an attitude that Dion had as a freshman (and Dion at least had a point whenever he put up a fight). MCW was actually in Boeheim's doghouse, and people forget that. Just a little insuboordination can do a lot of damage.

 

[anglerman]

Jb watched the games AND practices.

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Do you think joseph was good last year? Were you bummed to see him graduate? Do you wish you had him back?

 

[anglerman]

You answered none of my questions. But you did continue to spin your little fantasies. No need to take this further.

Because of the reasons that I stated playing JS more than joseph would have made the team better. Is that good enough for you?

 

[Gabjon]

Do you think joseph was good last year? Were you bummed to see him graduate? Do you wish you had him back?

The Boston Celtics thought and think he is good!

 

[anglerman]

The Boston Celtics thought and think he is good!

I noticed you didn't answer the question though.

 

[Gabjon]

I noticed you didn't answer the question though.

Yes he was good last year his performance against G-town last season when he had 29 of the teams 64 points was more impressive and vs better competition than James' performance on Friday.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

If Fab goes to class we make it to the NC game this debate probably doesn't happen.

 

[orangefan13]

Joseph had some post up game, a pretty good dribble drive, and not so good of a three point shot.
James last year was a 33% shooter less of a rebounder then Joseph, almost no post up game, and no dribble drive.

James broke out THIS year not last year. Last year he shot 110 threes making only 37.
This year he already has made 18 of his 33 shots. at that rate he will make 37 shots in 68 instead of 110. His arc has changed drastically.
How is that the same as last year???? How is James not shooting 34% last year on JB? Heck Dion shot 4% better then him from outside the arc last year.
16 mpg and James averaged one three pointer a game. One.
I seem to remember James going 0-9 two years ago against some nobody team. that is Cooney like stats. Is it JB's fault Cooney isn't playing 35 minutes and shooting 50% from three while Triche only plays 5 mpg as well?


MCW was no where near the level of beating his man off the dribble as he is this year nor the outside shooter that scoop was. Its not even close. Passer maybe but he couldn't beat his man any better then scoop, nor pop a midrange J that scoop can. He may have had a easier time throwing entries passes with his height, and is a amazing passer right on target. But, that is all he proved last year in all his earned minutes. He had a highlight dunk in transition and banked home a three off the glass against St Johns (thats not the mark of a shooter).
This year MCW is light years better at getting by his man and into the lane. Its not even close.

On a pay isider site on another board a scout who went to alot of the closed practices comented saying that MCW had trouble most of the year but by the end of the year Dion, Scoop and Triche had a hard time guarding him. It took him a long time to develop that. So yes he got better as the year went on, which means he probably got better in the offseason as well. 30 in game practices wouldn't have changed him any faster.

 

[mark79]

I think you guys believe that JB always makes the right decision and it's just not true. Joseph at the end of last year was flat out terrible but JB was going to leave him on the floor no matter what. That was a coaching mistake. He had another option but chose to stick with one that wasn't working.

You guys that think that JS and MCW became much better players during the off season are either blind or dillusional. They had the same talent last year and it was there in plain sight.

So was that true of Fab as well? Do you also think JB made a bad decision there not to play him as a freshman? Or play Dion his freshman year? Do you think those players matured and became better players during the offseason? Maybe spending time in the gym and in a great conditioning program and working on their shots and weaknesses during the off season is a waste of time.

 

[rrlbees]

Do you think joseph was good last year? Were you bummed to see him graduate? Do you wish you had him back?

I thought he was good but up and down at times. Wasn't as good as I had hoped but still good. I wish we still had him, why not? Who wouldn't want an NBA player in their roster?

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[anglerman]

So was that true of Fab as well? Do you also think JB made a bad decision there not to play him as a freshman? Or play Dion his freshman year? Do you think those players matured and became better players during the offseason? Maybe spending time in the gym and in a great conditioning program and working on their shots and weaknesses during the off season is a waste of time.

No I don't think Fab or Dion should have played more as frosh. I think MCW is a very special talent, one of the best to ever play here. I saw that ability last year, so time will tell if I'm right or not.

 

[bozophobe]

Everybody saw that talent. Maybe we should clarify the definition of "talent.' Does it imply potential, or is it fully defined by realized skills?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Look Joseph flat out sucked at the end of the year last year. Playing him more than JS was not going to win the game at at hand and the same goes to for MCW.

Call me when MCW makes his 1st big 3 w/ less than 2 minutes to play. But wait, he dunked on St. Johns. Oh, my bad.

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[billsin01]

I think you guys believe that JB always makes the right decision and it's just not true. Joseph at the end of last year was flat out terrible but JB was going to leave him on the floor no matter what. That was a coaching mistake. He had another option but chose to stick with one that wasn't working.

You guys that think that JS and MCW became much better players during the off season are either blind or dillusional. They had the same talent last year and it was there in plain sight.

etan thomas had the same talent as a frosh that he had as a senior
Ditto for J Hart
Fab had the same talent as a frosh and soph.


The list can go on and on, but the point is simple -- talent is well and good but it doesn't always equate to consistency and production. AND, while we're on the topic, we've had few guys in this program the last 15 years or more that have had more "talent" than KJ.

 

[billsin01]

Call me when MCW makes his 1st big 3 w/ less than 2 minutes to play. But wait, he dunked on St. Johns. Oh, my bad.

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Yeah, I LOVE MCW but people getting caught up in how things should have gone down last year based on the fact that he put up big numbers in November are grasping. I think you could easily make the argument that MCW would have been a really good player last year if given a ton of minutes early, but we already had a really good player who had proven he could be a huge asset in Scoop. You don't replace a guy you know is a quality with a guy you *think* could be great *if* he progresses the way you *think* he will.

 

[br801]

Call me when MCW makes his 1st big 3 w/ less than 2 minutes to play. But wait, he dunked on St. Johns. Oh, my bad.

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You must have missed the memo. We've skipped ahead to the deification stage of MCW's career.

 

[mark79]

No I don't think Fab or Dion should have played more as frosh. I think MCW is a very special talent, one of the best to ever play here. I saw that ability last year, so time will tell if I'm right or not.

Many of us including me saw that talent last year. No one here is arguing that we didn't see the talent. Or that he may very well become the best point guard ever here. And we saw that last year as well, at least I did. But he was still very raw, unmolded and immature basketball wise, system wise and strength wise. A year practicing under scoop and dion and Triche matured that raw talent and a summer of strengthening matured his body to the point that we are seeing today.

 

[SaintTristan]

JB Always has ulterior motives when he selects pt. Always thinking about what's best for the program long term. Sometimes he makes mistakes.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think you guys believe that JB always makes the right decision and it's just not true. Joseph at the end of last year was flat out terrible but JB was going to leave him on the floor no matter what. That was a coaching mistake. He had another option but chose to stick with one that wasn't working.

You guys that think that JS and MCW became much better players during the off season are either blind or dillusional. They had the same talent last year and it was there in plain sight.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. I don't mean on this board, I mean ever!