WE NEED A KIRK FERENTZ

[GoSU96]

We don't know that at all. How are we sure we'd be any better today? It took Marrone all of 2 years to get back to pre-Grob. How do we know P would have been .500 those 4 Marrone years? You keep thinking we were an 8-4 type program when P was fired. We were a .500 program as evidenced by his last 3 seasons.

There is no way to correlate P bring fired to today's results. It's been 11 years.

I never said then or now, that P should have been coach for life.

As for an 8-4 program, a hell of a lot closer than Robinson ever was.

 

[MadNY3]

If there's no need to make a move now, there was absolutely no "NEED" to make a move then.

The guy was four years removed from a 10-3 season and had one losing season in 14. Mismanagement for an AD and Chancellor to make such a big change so soon into their time here. Unbelievable arrogance on both their parts.

Idiots.

Gross had no say in the football matter in 2004. He was told to fire P from above.

He made a bad hire in Robinson, but he had 0% influence on the timing of Pasqauloni's departure.

 

[SWC75]

I'm not going to pick at the old scabs but I want to add this clarification of my previous post:

I think Ferentz's record would be close to a ceiling for SU in this league. I think the '87 team probably would have gone 10-2 in this league. It's stronger at the top than the old big east, (Florida State, Clemson and Louisville, all in our division - and Miami will be back someday in the other division), but the week-to-week opposition is stronger than we had in the Big East. Pasqualoni's record is similar to Ferentz but I still think it should have been better than it was in that league. I never felt that we were hitting our heads on the ceiling of the program in those days. I thought the ceiling was imposed more by Pasqualoni and DeLeone. I think we should have beaten Miami in '92 and that we had the best team in the elague in each one of the McNabb years. We should have been as good in those years as Virginia Tech was in the Michael Vick years but we couldn't engineer even one year on that level in four years with McNabb. And then the decline of the program began under P-D. It was accelerated by Robinson, but it had already begun before he and Gross took over the program. And what happened at UCONN was relevant because that school was sited as a school that was doing everything in terms of facilities that we were not. We needed to make a change but Gross picked the wrong guy for the wrong reason at the wrong time.

I know others disagree but I wanted to clarify my view.

 

[OrangePA]

We don't know that at all. How are we sure we'd be any better today? It took Marrone all of 2 years to get back to pre-Grob. How do we know P would have been .500 those 4 Marrone years? You keep thinking we were an 8-4 type program when P was fired. We were a .500 program as evidenced by his last 3 seasons.

There is no way to correlate P bring fired to today's results. It's been 11 years.

I think Go is correct.

Had Cantor and the BOT allowed them to handle the Program, Jake and Pasqualoni would have avoided the Robinson results.

I would like to think that Jake would have prevailed on Cantor to spend the infrastructure money that needed to be spent - I think that would have happened.

The push to fire Pasqualoni and I assume to replace Jake came from some very influential BOT members - who raised the actual buy-out money.

It was based on amateur college football analysis and presented very forcefully to a very green and very susceptible Chancellor.

 

[GoSU96]

You're rewriting history. Your first point may be partially true but there had already been discussions on whether to keep P or not. The bowl game, while an immediate decision, was just the straw that broke the camels back. But it's not like that bowl game was the one and only time it was a consideration.

Your second point is completely wrong and you know the story. You may not have like the answer but a thought out search took place. He wanted to use the model he felt was highly successful at USC. An NFL coach with a defensive background. That's all they interviewed. Four coaches that fit that profile. Narrowed to two for more interviews. So hate the model, the profile and the result, but it was thought out.

That's exactly my point, it was a model by an ignorant, arrogant, idiot who hadn't been here long enough to even know the question that needed to be answered.

SU's problem wasn't technical coaching it was falling behind on in the recruiting and resources wars and he has a search for NFL coordinators as if the only thing standing between SU and glory were schemes and teaching.

For all their issue's P and D were infinitely better at that aspect of their jobs than Greg Robinson ever was.

 

[OrangePA]

That's exactly my point, it was a model by an ignorant, arrogant, idiot who hadn't been here long enough to even know the question that needed to be answered.

SU's problem wasn't technical coaching it was falling behind on in the recruiting and resources wars and he has a search for NFL coordinators as if the only thing standing between SU and glory were schemes and teaching.

For all their issue's P and D were infinitely better at that aspect of their jobs than Greg Robinson ever was.

There is no doubt that it was not the coaching.

It was money/infrastructure.

The amateur presumption among some influential alums was that it was coaching.

That presumption was incorrect and turned out to be nearly fatal.

 

[Rocco]

How do we know that Shafer is a long-term guy? Is there any reason to think he wouldn't take a better job if the opportunity arose? We're his 8th coaching stop.

Yes, Shafer isn't leaving. I can speak rather confidently on that one.

 

[GoSU96]

Greg Robinson was a good hire from the perspective of NFL fans/boosters who watch a syracuse game on saturday. Gross was an idiot who went on the recommendation of Pete Carroll, who had no skin in the game and hooked up his buddy. whole thing suffered from navel gazing. Gross's idea of a plan was to ask someone at USC what to do. People of a certain age who went along with Robinson heard Super Bowl rings and west coast offense and nfl defensive experience.

as long as Gross was there, they weren't going to hire anyone any good.

2005 was going to be a mess and I bet gross would've screwed up it up a year later. there is no plan with daryl gross on anything

There was no reason why 2005 should have been a "mess" except sure incompetence.

 

[GoSU96]

I think Go is correct.

Had Cantor and the BOT allowed them to handle the Program, Jake and Pasqualoni would have avoided the Robinson results.

I would like to think that Jake would have prevailed on Cantor to spend the infrastructure money that needed to be spent - I think that would have happened.

The push to fire Pasqualoni and I assume to replace Jake came from some very influential BOT members - who raised the actual buy-out money.

It was based on amateur college football analysis and presented very forcefully to a very green and very susceptible Chancellor.

I assume the same idiots who didn't support Marrone.

 

[GoSU96]

Gross had no say in the football matter in 2004. He was told to fire P from above.

He made a bad hire in Robinson, but he had 0% influence on the timing of Pasqauloni's departure.

You notice I had both in there.

 

[Millhouse]

There was no reason why 2005 should have been a "mess" except sure incompetence.

patterson + rice + lane = mess

patterson + rice + lane + pariani + robinson = historically terrible mess

 

[rrlbees]

I think Go is correct. Had Cantor and the BOT allowed them to handle the Program, Jake and Pasqualoni would have avoided the Robinson results. I would like to think that Jake would have prevailed on Cantor to spend the infrastructure money that needed to be spent - I think that would have happened. The push to fire Pasqualoni and I assume to replace Jake came from some very influential BOT members - who raised the actual buy-out money. It was based on amateur college football analysis and presented very forcefully to a very green and very susceptible Chancellor.

None of that is what my post was about. Right or wrong Jake was already gone so I don't know what Jake has to do with what I said. Your post goes further back in history.

 

[GoSU96]

We should have been as good in those years as Virginia Tech was in the Michael Vick years but we couldn't engineer even one year on that level in four years with McNabb. .

Yeah, because the out of conference schedules were SO similar.

 

[GoSU96]

patterson + rice + lane = mess

patterson + rice + lane + pariani + robinson = historically terrible mess

It's one part of the game.

P comes back it would have been a better version of the 2013 team without the early season identity crisis.

Would have had a backfield of Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Ray Rice, and Tony Fiametta, a very good OL, and a defense full of NFL players and guys who got looks.

It might not have been what you wanted, but it wouldn't have been a mess.

 

[Millhouse]

It's one part of the game.

P comes back it would have been a better version of the 2013 team without the early season identity crisis.

Would have had a backfield of Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Ray Rice, and Tony Fiametta, a very good OL, and a defense full of NFL players and guys who got looks.

It might not have been what you wanted, but it wouldn't have been a mess.

i think they win maybe 4 games and get shutout once. who knows, who cares. nunes was terrible but at least he had WR. it wasn't like they could get by just running the ball in other years

 

[elimunelson]

It's one part of the game.

P comes back it would have been a better version of the 2013 team without the early season identity crisis.

Would have had a backfield of Damien Rhodes, Curtis Brinkley, Ray Rice, and Tony Fiametta, a very good OL, and a defense full of NFL players and guys who got looks.

It might not have been what you wanted, but it wouldn't have been a mess.

More importantly would have the uniforms been changed to those awful ones worn in 2005 if P wasn't fired?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

i think they win maybe 4 games and get shutout once. who knows, who cares. nunes was terrible but at least he had WR. it wasn't like they could get by just running the ball in other years

At Notre Dame (9-3)
At Louisville (9-3)
At Florida State (8-5)
West Virginia (11-1)
Virginia (7-5)

5 losses right there.

Buffalo
Rutgers
Cincinnati
USF
At UConn
At Pitt

Tough to see 6 wins there. USF had speed, and we always struggled at Pitt.

 

[OttoMets]

Yeah, because the out of conference schedules were SO similar.

1997 was the year - the defense peaked and the offense was good as ever, plus the out-of-conference schedule was weak (put aside the names of the schools - Oklahoma was awful). But we couldn't get it done.

 

[GoSU96]

i think they win maybe 4 games and get shutout once. who knows, who cares. nunes was terrible but at least he had WR. it wasn't like they could get by just running the ball in other years

They would have been better than that.

 

[GoSU96]

At Notre Dame (9-3)
At Louisville (9-3)
At Florida State (8-5)
West Virginia (11-1)
Virginia (7-5)

5 losses right there.

Buffalo
Rutgers
Cincinnati
USF
At UConn
At Pitt

Tough to see 6 wins there. USF had speed, and we always struggled at Pitt.

WVU was 15-7 point game and they lost to UVA by a FG, so move those to the other column.

 

[OttoMets]

At Notre Dame (9-3)
At Louisville (9-3)
At Florida State (8-5)
West Virginia (11-1)
Virginia (7-5)

5 losses right there.

Buffalo
Rutgers
Cincinnati
USF
At UConn
At Pitt

Tough to see 6 wins there. USF had speed, and we always struggled at Pitt.

Dunno, West Virginia was very beatable in the opener (weren't they still auditioning quarterbacks?). It took a special kind of offensive ineptitude for us to lose that game. Not a guaranteed win by any stretch, but I think Pasqualoni could certainly have come away with that one.

 

[rrlbees]

1997 was the year - the defense peaked and the offense was good as ever, plus the out-of-conference schedule was weak (put aside the names of the schools - Oklahoma was awful). But we couldn't get it done.

We were never ranked higher than 19th end of season with McNabb, even while one year averaging something like 42ppg.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

WVU was 15-7 point game and they lost to UVA by a FG, so move those to the other column.

WV had beaten Coach P 3 games in a row. Not convinced that 2005 would have been different.

Marques Hagans ran for 2 TD's and threw for another in 2005. Just like he did in 2004. Shades of Walter Washington.

 

[OrangePA]

None of that is what my post was about. Right or wrong Jake was already gone so I don't know what Jake has to do with what I said. Your post goes further back in history.

Jake was supposed to mentor Gross for awhile.

That is not how it was actually done.

But, Jake was still in his regular booth during the Champs Bowl - he was there, but by that time out of the loop.

 

[OrangePA]

WV had beaten Coach P 3 games in a row. Not convinced that 2005 would have been different.

Marques Hagans ran for 2 TD's and threw for another in 2005. Just like he did in 2004. Shades of Walter Washington.

Didn't Bednarik - the relative of Chuck - start for WVU at QB for that game in 2005?