WE NEED A KIRK FERENTZ

[OrangeXtreme]

Didn't Bednarik - the relative of Chuck - start for WVU at QB for that game in 2005?

Correct. Bednarik got injured during the season and they made the switch to Pat White.

 

[TexanMark]

There is no doubt that it was not the coaching.

It was money/infrastructure.

The amateur presumption among some influential alums was that it was coaching.

That presumption was incorrect and turned out to be nearly fatal.

I think infrastructure was the main point...but, the game was evolving and Coach P/D were not.

 

[orangecuse]

The best example of what our program is or can be is Iowa. We cant afford to get a guy who will leave and jump on a bigger ship leaving us to start over again. I want consistency like Kirk Ferentz gives hawkeye nation. He might not be considered one of the best coaches in the country but he is well respected, his teams play hard despite being less talented. They go through their ups and downs as a program but he built his brand and sticks to it. This is what I think Shafer can bring to us. He needs to improve his game day decisions but I think he can be a steady head coach who can bring us a conference championship here and there. Look at Ferentz first 3 years and then look at the 4th year. We need consistency in upstate NY. If we are loyal to him he just may stay loyal to us like Frentz is with Iowa. Shafer will get paid like other ACC coaches if he shows progress like this. BTW, 4 years ago people wanted Ferentz fired. How are they doing this year? lol, This is what the SU football program needs. We are never going to be a Michigan or Ohio St but we can be an Iowa.

1999 Iowa 1–10 0–8 11th
2000 Iowa 3–9 3–5 8th
2001 Iowa 7–5 4–4 T–4th W Alamo
2002 Iowa 11–2 8–0 T–1st L Orange† 8 8
2003 Iowa 10–3 5–3 T–4th W Outback 8 8
2004 Iowa 10–2 7–1 T–1st W Capital One 8 8
2005 Iowa 7–5 5–3 T–3rd L Outback
2006 Iowa 6–7 2–6 T–8th L Alamo
2007 Iowa 6–6 4–4 T–5th
2008 Iowa 9–4 5–3 T–4th W Outback 20 20
2009 Iowa 11–2 6–2 T–2nd W Orange† 7 7
2010 Iowa 8–5 4–4 T–4th W Insight
2011 Iowa 7–6 4–4 4th (Legends) L Insight
2012 Iowa 4–8 2–6 T–5th (Legends)
2013 Iowa 8–5 5–3 T–2nd (Legends) L Outback
2014 Iowa 7–6 4–4 4th (West) L TaxSlayer
2015 Iowa 7–0 3–0 (West)

That would feel like heaven right about now.

 

[skytop44]

I want Shafer to win so it doesn't matter but if he doesn't and a change is made, we need a long term guy that will be here for awhile. Yes we had that in Doug but he was given an opportunity that most coaches would have taken. Even Saban made the jump. I'm confident that whatever happens, Coyle will make the best decision for us and if he makes a change, I have confidence that he will get a guy that fits Syracuse in here for the long haul. IMO thats the direction we need to go if there is a change.

 

[longtimefan]

So what?

That's has nothing to do with how an emotional, panicked decision drove the program over the cliff, which is the major source of all the difficulties since.

One more season and a well thought out search wouldn't have hurt.

One (or two) fewer seasons and a well thought-out search would have worked, too. I think Jake may have made a change if he wasn't right at the end of his tenure. Remember, Donnie Webb posted on line that he had a reliable source that told him that Jake wanted to make a change after the Rutgers wind-blown abomination game, but was vetoed by Buzz Shaw. (Webb said he didn't publish because he could not find a confirming source.)

 

[SWC75]

Yeah, because the out of conference schedules were SO similar.

You keep throwing me that knuckleball and keep hitting it out of the park. Once again:

We have McNabb...they don't have Vick
1995 Syracuse 9-3 (5-2 in conference) Virginia Tech 10-2 (6-1) They beat us, 7-31
1996 Syracuse 9-3 (6-1) Virginia Tech 10-2 (6-1) We beat them 52-21
1997 Syracuse 9-4 (6-1) Virginia Tech 7-5 (5-2) They beat us, 3-31
1998 Syracuse 8-4 (6-1) Virginia Tech 9-3 (5-2) We beat them 28-26
Totals Syracuse 35-14 (23-5) non-conference: 12-9 Virginia Tech 36-12 (22-6) non-conference: 14-6 2-2 head to head, points 90-109

We no longer have McNabb...and now they have Vick
1999 Syracuse 7-5 (3-4) Virginia Tech 11-1 (7-0) They beat us 0-62
2000 Syracuse 6-5 (4-3) Virginia Tech 11-1 (6-1) They beat us 14-22
Totals: Syracuse 13-10 (7-7) non-conference 6-3 Virginia Tech 22-2 (13-1) non-conference 9-1 head to head, 0-2 points: 14-84

The six year totals, when we had McNabb for four years and they had Vick for 6:
Syracuse 48-24 (30-12) NC: 18-12, Virginia Tech 58-14 (35-7) NC: 23-7 head-to-head: 2-4 points: 104-193

Yes, they had a lighter non-conference schedule and a better record there. But they were just one game short of us in the conference when we had McNabb and they didn't yet have Vick and when they did have Vick, they won 93% of their conference games while we won 82& of ours with McNabb. And we were only a .500 conference team without McNabb. And they dominated the head-to-head games.

They were as good as us when we had the superior quarterback and far better they had the superior quarterback. The non-conference schedule had nothing to do with it. I think I'll just keep a copy of this and re-post it the next time this comes up. It will save time.

 

[GoSU96]

You keep throwing me that knuckleball and keep hitting it out of the park. Once again:

We have McNabb...they don't have Vick
1995 Syracuse 9-3 (5-2 in conference) Virginia Tech 10-2 (6-1) They beat us, 7-31
1996 Syracuse 9-3 (6-1) Virginia Tech 10-2 (6-1) We beat them 52-21
1997 Syracuse 9-4 (6-1) Virginia Tech 7-5 (5-2) They beat us, 3-31
1998 Syracuse 8-4 (6-1) Virginia Tech 9-3 (5-2) We beat them 28-26
Totals Syracuse 35-14 (23-5) non-conference: 12-9 Virginia Tech 36-12 (22-6) non-conference: 14-6 2-2 head to head, points 90-109

We no longer have McNabb...and now they have Vick
1999 Syracuse 7-5 (3-4) Virginia Tech 11-1 (7-0) They beat us 0-62
2000 Syracuse 6-5 (4-3) Virginia Tech 11-1 (6-1) They beat us 14-22
Totals: Syracuse 13-10 (7-7) non-conference 6-3 Virginia Tech 22-2 (13-1) non-conference 9-1 head to head, 0-2 points: 14-84

The six year totals, when we had McNabb for four years and they had Vick for 6:
Syracuse 48-24 (30-12) NC: 18-12, Virginia Tech 58-14 (35-7) NC: 23-7 head-to-head: 2-4 points: 104-193

Yes, they had a lighter non-conference schedule and a better record there. But they were just one game short of us in the conference when we had McNabb and they didn't yet have Vick and when they did have Vick, they won 93% of their conference games while we won 82& of ours with McNabb. And we were only a .500 conference team without McNabb. And they dominated the head-to-head games.

They were as good as us when we had the superior quarterback and far better they had the superior quarterback. The non-conference schedule had nothing to do with it. I think I'll just keep a copy of this and re-post it the next time this comes up. It will save time.

The non-conference schedule had nothing to do with what? They lost 5 conference games in four years and VT lost 6, how is that an indictment on SU? Obviously VT was a very good team already, you might not realize it, but there is more to football team then the Quarterback.

1/3rd of their schedule was significantly easier every year. Might explain a game or two a year.

Do you realize that SU opened the 97 season with Wisconsin, NC State, at Oklahoma, and at VT, at night, while VT opened Rutgers, SU, Temple, Arkansas St, Miami Ohio.

By the time SU got to VT, McNabb had injuries to both shoulders, he spent the whole week wrapped up like a mummy, all three FB's were out, they were running the offense with Dee Brown at FB that week. The team was spent.

 

[elimunelson]

I was looking at out of conference schedules recently and came across BC 1995. They opened with Ohio State and then played OOC teams: Michigan, Michigan St, Army and then played ND later in the season. That my friends is a gauntlet.

 

[Ish88888]

Coaches like ferenz can survive at a midwest program like Iowa going 6-6, 7-5. Its very much a st. Louis cardinal fan mentality where the fans cheer hitters out of 0-20 slumps rather than boo.

 

[SWC75]

The non-conference schedule had nothing to do with what? They lost 5 conference games in four years and VT lost 6, how is that an indictment on SU? Obviously VT was a very good team already, you might not realize it, but there is more to football team then the Quarterback.

1/3rd of their schedule was significantly easier every year. Might explain a game or two a year.

Do you realize that SU opened the 97 season with Wisconsin, NC State, at Oklahoma, and at VT, at night, while VT opened Rutgers, SU, Temple, Arkansas St, Miami Ohio.

By the time SU got to VT, McNabb had injuries to both shoulders, he spent the whole week wrapped up like a mummy, all three FB's were out, they were running the offense with Dee Brown at FB that week. The team was spent.

The point being that the head-to-head numbers and the in conference numbers have nothing to do with out of conference strength of schedule and those numbers show that Va Tech was as good as we were when we had McNabb and they didn't have Vick but we weren't anywhere near as good as they were when they had Vick and we didn't have McNabb. That's not the product of the non-conference schedule.

 

[Ottoble]

Had one, but he got fired in 2004.

Impossible to overestimate the negative impact the P/Robinson exchange had on the program.

Gross 'ed up managing the football program from the drop.

This... this is really close to what P's record loked like... the vote of confidience followed by a late fire of a 14yr vet by the new regieme was poorly timed leaving us the dregs and alienated the shallow pool of candidates available. Then he hired poorly somone with no knowledge or refererence point for the program. This is ALL on Gross.

He should have at the very least kept P for the year and performed an under the radar search in case 2005 went south.

Saw that back then Bo Pellini was considered missed the boat on that one, and he'll be snapped up by a big name this cycle, worst record at Nebraska had 9 wins even with a conf change. Just chilling at Youngstown waiting for calls.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ferentz is one of the top 10-12 paid coaches

 

[rrlbees]

This... this is really close to what P's record loked like... the vote of confidience followed by a late fire of a 14yr vet by the new regieme was poorly timed leaving us the dregs and alienated the shallow pool of candidates available. Then he hired poorly somone with no knowledge or refererence point for the program. This is ALL on Gross. He should have at the very least kept P for the year and performed an under the radar search in case 2005 went south. Saw that back then Bo Pellini was considered missed the boat on that one, and he'll be snapped up by a big name this cycle, worst record at Nebraska had 9 wins even with a conf change. Just chilling at Youngstown waiting for calls.

Hows it all on Gross? He gave P a vote of confidence like you said. Firing P was mandated by those above him.

 

[Millhouse]

Jake was supposed to mentor Gross for awhile.

That is not how it was actually done.

But, Jake was still in his regular booth during the Champs Bowl - he was there, but by that time out of the loop.

i'm glad for jake's sake that's not how it was done.

jake would try to teach him about running an athletic department and gross would be ignoring him shopping for velvet ropes

 

[StanCuse44]

i'm glad for jake's sake that's not how it was done.

jake would try to teach him about running an athletic department and gross would be ignoring him shopping for velvet ropes

True dat.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Hows it all on Gross? He gave P a vote of confidence like you said. Firing P was mandated by those above him.

Wasn't the "vote of confidence" all Cantor? She said that at Jakes retirement announcement, long before Gross was even hired.

 

[rrlbees]

Wasn't the "vote of confidence" all Cantor? She said that at Jakes retirement announcement, long before Gross was even hired.

She then left it up to Gross as the new guy. But the bigger point was Gross didn't fire P.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

05 would have been the final year of P's contract,no?Do you extend him?Let him try to recruit as a lame duck?

 

[OrangePA]

She then left it up to Gross as the new guy. But the bigger point was Gross didn't fire P.

Gross was not involved in the decision.

 

[MadNY3]

You notice I had both in there.

But it wasn't both. It was 100% Cantor (influenced by the BoT) and 0% Gross.

I love your use of both. Jim Boeheim and I both coached the 2003 National Championship team would be accurate.

<smiley emoji>

 

[Frozen]

But it wasn't both. It was 100% Cantor (influenced by the BoT) and 0% Gross.

I love your use of both. Jim Boeheim and I both coached the 2003 National Championship team would be accurate.

<smiley emoji>

I blame you for the loss at Rutgers.

 

[Chip]

exactly.

Chip fired P.

and he did it with CTO's blessing, 7 budweisers in to the game...

If they made me pay for the beer, I would have said you should give him at least one more year, the timing is terrible.

But it was free, so...

 

[Chip]

WVU was 15-7 point game and they lost to UVA by a FG, so move those to the other column.

Not that I really want in on this debate, but the only reason we were playing WVU in the season opener on a Sunday on ABC was us having a new coach. If Pasqualoni returned, we would have been playing that game in October or November. And by October and November, the Adam Bednarik, Jason Colston era was over. The Pat White, Steve Slaton era had begun.

Doesn't excuse the possibly worst offensive game we've ever played in a season full of them, just saying.

 

[MadNY3]

I blame you for the loss at Rutgers.

That would be accurate. I wore orange, which I never do on Cuse Football game days because they lose. And they did.

That contributed to why both Coach P and I are no longer coaching.