we need southerland back or the season is a wrap | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

we need southerland back or the season is a wrap

Obviating ... ooooh

moqui said:
Look, I am Dirty's biggest fan, and I agree that with him in the lineup, Syracuse is a serious national title contender . . . but I also think that, long term, Grant is probably a better prospect, so that the ability to force feed him minutes in Big East action could go a long way towards obviating the loss of Southerland by the time the NCAAT rolls around.

I have to keep repeating this: while currently the most productive players on the team are upperclassmen, the most talented players (MCW, Roc, Grant) are underclassmen, and all of them should be better in 2 months than they are now.

If the goal is to get ranked #1 sometime in the middle of the season, things look a little bleak right now; but if the goal is to be the last team standing in April, then there is still plenty left in the arsenal to make that happen.
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realorange said:
And gee----------what happened in March of 96?
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...we got to the championship game and may very well have won had Sims not gotten briefly injured and had to leave?
 
We can beat any team with what we have left right now. Plus MCW, Grant and Rak will be much better by tourny time. Who knows maybe Cooney will suddenly make shots, Baye will learn not to foul and Brandon will play like a dominant player for long stretches of every game rather than just once in a while. The team is still talented and young in key spots we have know that since last season ended.
 
jordoo said:
We can beat any team with what we have left right now. Plus MCW, Grant and Rak will be much better by tourny time. Who knows maybe Cooney will suddenly make shots, Baye will learn not to foul and Brandon will play like a dominant player for long stretches of every game rather than just once in a while. The team is still talented and young in key spots we have know that since last season ended.
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We can...
We can, but we're running out of guys that get blocked by 5'8 guards that pad their stats from 0.0 blocks per game to 2.7, players that fart unnecessarily making the game more "uneasy" than it was to begin with and yet still, other graceful players that break chairs, out injured because they walked into glass doors and can't fence worth of jack shiite.

It's just getting weird around here.
 
jekelish said:
...we got to the championship game and may very well have won had Sims not gotten briefly injured and had to leave?
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Exactly! I don't think our OP even stopped to think about that.
 
Some Coleman Stats and Information from ESPN Stats and Information:

DaJuan Coleman has played a factor in Syracuse's wins this season, averaging just under 15 minutes in those games while adding 5.6 PPG and 4.8 RPG. In the Orange's two losses, Coleman is averaging 0.0 PPG and just 0.5 RPG in his 5.5 minutes. He failed to attempt a field goal in their two losses this season.

DaJuan Coleman needs James Southerland, and now, the Orange need both of them. In games with Southerland, Coleman averaged 5.7 PPG and 5.3 RPG while playing 15.0 minutes per game. In the games without Southerland, Coleman is averaging less than 10 minutes a game and just 2.3 PPG and 0.8 RPG.

With DuJuan Coleman expected to be out at least 4 weeks, the Orange are going to need to find a replacement. This season, Coleman ranks 8th in minutes played, while ranking 7th in PPG (5.0) and grabs just under 5 boards a game, which is 5th-best on the team.
 
jekelish said:
Because while that team had a better #1 player, this team BURIES that team 2-7.
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I don't know, man... I think "buries" is WAY too strong of a word here. Our current team has nothing in the same stratosphere as Otis Hill in terms of low-post hands and offensive maneuvering. A sophomore Todd Burgan was very effective as an inside/outside glue guy and a complement to Wallace. And clearly Sims isn't as talented as MCW, but his shooting percentages were higher across the board, and he averaged a very solid 7.4 dimes per game.

I think if 1996 1-7 played our current 2013 1-7 100 times, it's pretty close to an even matchup.
 
Gentlemen,

There is no direct correlation between PT and player development. More of the former does not guarantee more of the latter. Believe it. And while player development certainly may occur with floor time, it's not like putting more gas in the tank and being able to drive farther on it.

Recall the plight of Terrence Roberts, Louis McCroskey, Josh Wright, Matt Gorman, Paul Harris, Donte Greene, etc. Darrell Watkins improved only incrementally over his career; Roberts only managed to jump farther into the stands trying to block shots from the wing; and for all practical purposes, Harris and Greene were playing the same game on their last day in Orange as they were on their first.
 
Bottom line with this team, right now if they were to go to March: Have the pieces and talent to make it far, but have serious flaws that can easily result in an early exit. Flaws such as guard consistently missing free throws when the game is on the line. I think that the free throw shooting by guards is going to kill us in March. MCW HAS to shoot a better percentage from there. As well as Triche. Obviously would love to see Southerland back, but Grant is doing great but the cuse cannot afford him to getting into foul trouble. Syracuse pretty much absolutely won that game verse nova and they had nothing really going their way
 
jekelish said:
Honest question: are you old enough to remember the team primarily being referenced? The 95-96 team? Because while that team had a better #1 player, this team BURIES that team 2-7. So yes, I'm fine with Cooney and Keita being our 6 and 7, especially since, again, DC2 should be back for the tourney, and Dirty could be as well.

Edit: I say that 2-7 statement even with Lazarus Sims being my favorite basketball player of all time, just so you know I'm not bullshitting.
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Not for nothing, but Otis (My Man) is better than any big we've got (and I'm Rakeem's biggest proponent around these parts). And people are quick to forget - Reafsnyder was very capable. He did everything Keita does, only he could also score and catch passes. An argument could be made for 1996 Z over 2013 Carter-Williams (putting his ceiling aside for the moment). Right now, Janulis would get a long look before I'd call Cooney the better player.

Triche > Cipolla and Fair > Burgan, of course.

Player for player, 1-7, I've got the '96 team over our current short group. At worst, I wouldn't think we bury them by any means.
 
eao1115 said:
I don't know, man... I think "buries" is WAY too strong of a word here. Our current team has nothing in the same stratosphere as Otis Hill in terms of low-post hands and offensive maneuvering. A sophomore Todd Burgan was very effective as an inside/outside glue guy and a complement to Wallace. And clearly Sims isn't as talented as MCW, but his shooting percentages were higher across the board, and he averaged a very solid 7.4 dimes per game.

I think if 1996 1-7 played our current 2013 1-7 100 times, it's pretty close to an even matchup.
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Damn, beat me to it.
 
OttoMets said:
Not for nothing, but Otis (My Man) is better than any big we've got (and I'm Rakeem's biggest proponent around these parts). And people are quick to forget - Reafsnyder was very capable. He did everything Keita does, only he could also score and catch passes. An argument could be made for 1996 Z over 2013 Carter-Williams (putting his ceiling aside for the moment). Right now, Janulis would get a long look before I'd call Cooney the better player.

Triche > Cipolla and Fair > Burgan, of course.

Player for player, 1-7, I've got the '96 team over our current short group. At worst, I wouldn't think we bury them by any means.
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comparing what I assume will be the starting lineup without DC or JS
96. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
PF Wallace >>>>>> Fair
C Otis >>>>>>>>> Roc
SF Burgan >>>>>> Grant
PG Sims < < < < < < MCW (although as Otto notes, disregarding MCW's ceiling it is pretty close, IMO)
SG Cippolla < < < < < Triche
and now the bench
Reafsnyder = = = = = BMK
Janulis >>>>>> Cooney
 
Sims on his experience and ball handling against the present MCW is the better choice.
The 96 team would also be the better rebounding team.
One other thought would be MCW only trying to drive on Otis once.
 
I was not trying to compare which team was better, merely stating that a 7 man rotation with 2 bench guys who don't give "Starter" quality play can still achieve great things.

And if I were to compare, I'd take Z in his senior season. "Upside" aside, his overall play was consistent, and he was an incredible distributor who could hit clutch shots when needed. Hopefully by year end MCW gets there, and he probably will.
 
moqui said:
comparing what I assume will be the starting lineup without DC or JS
96. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
PF Wallace >>>>>> Fair
C Otis >>>>>>>>> Roc
SF Burgan >>>>>> Grant
PG Sims < < < < < < MCW (although as Otto notes, disregarding MCW's ceiling it is pretty close, IMO)
SG Cippolla < < < < < Triche
and now the bench
Reafsnyder = = = = = BMK
Janulis >>>>>> Cooney
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I would peg Reafsnyder as one of our most underappreciated and currently underrated guys; when he played, I thought he was a stiff. Having gotten to re-watch a few games from that era in the past couple years, I have to compliment the guy.

Solid positional defender (in an era when we played man and zone), certainly tough enough to mix it up on the defensive glass, and relatively skilled on the offensive end. Keita's a better shot-blocker, but Reafsnyder could do a lot more things. There's a reason he started over Hill for most of 1995.

In other news, if you'd have told us in October that we'd be favorably comparing a limited nine-loss team from the mid-'90s to our current squad, I'd have been extremely concerned.
 
OttoMets said:
In other news, if you'd have told us in October that we'd be favorably comparing a limited nine-loss team from the mid-'90s to our current squad, I'd have been extremely concerned.
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however, we are comparing a team that got really hot at the end of the year to a team that has several key players getting their first real consistent college action . . . MCW has gotten legitimate minutes vs, what, maybe 8 high quality teams in his career? While Z was a fifth year senior. I think our youngsters are going to improve and be a lot better in March. I bet if I revisit these comps in April, it will look quite a bit different.
 
moqui said:
however, we are comparing a team that got really hot at the end of the year to a team that has several key players getting their first real consistent college action . . . MCW has gotten legitimate minutes vs, what, maybe 8 high quality teams in his career? While Z was a fifth year senior. I think our youngsters are going to improve and be a lot better in March. I bet if I revisit these comps in April, it will look quite a bit different.
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Here's hoping.

And I still think that Christmas puts it together. Cooney and Grant have room to grow, too.
 
OttoMets said:
Here's hoping.

And I still think that Christmas puts it together. Cooney and Grant have room to grow, too.
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Honestly, I think Rak is extremely close to the light switch going on. He's so athletic, and is so much better on offense than probably even he realizes. He's very smooth when he wants to be.
 
jekelish said:
Honestly, I think Rak is extremely close to the light switch going on. He's so athletic, and is so much better on offense than probably even he realizes. He's very smooth when he wants to be.
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He's got a ton of offensive skill. Hell, I said he'd become John Wallace this season.

Can't completely stand by that, but he's a few more minutes and post touches away from being a double-figure scorer. And that'd be huge. Defensively, he's in need of a different mindset. Could be too much to hope for. But he's capable of great things.
 
OttoMets said:
He's got a ton of offensive skill. Hell, I said he'd become John Wallace this season.

Can't completely stand by that, but he's a few more minutes and post touches away from being a double-figure scorer. And that'd be huge. Defensively, he's in need of a different mindset. Could be too much to hope for. But he's capable of great things.
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Honestly, he's behind where I thought he would be, offensively. But I remember in the McD game, his one basket was a beautiful turnaround, fallaway 12 foot jumper that was a perfect swish. I was floored by how smooth he was, and how great his release was, on that play. I've been expecting him to eventually become an offensive presence ever since.
 
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