We need to hire an offensive coordinator.

[Forloveoforange]

Syracuse 2012 is better than anyone's team since.

 

[l'orange]

We don’t get enough easy points

The zone is supposed to lead to transition points but I don't see us taking advantage of that and I don't think we have players that can finish in transition like we had years ago.
Devo on a fast break? Count the points.

 

[RF2044]

Syracuse 2012 is better than anyone's team since.

I really would have liked to see us play Kentucky that year to find out. They were LOADED with Anthony Davis, but so were we. With Fab, I think we'd have an easier time against their defense than their frosh would have had playing against our zone that year.

 

[Alsacs]

Thanks, Alsacs -- not sure that it warrants that praise, I posted it more to generate dialogue about whether the offensive system is the culprit, versus other factors [I think it is the latter].

If you don’t have the talent to run what you want you don’t run it.
That is why I can’t give the talent issue a pass.
Plus JB constructed this roster.
He doesn’t get a pass when we didn’t have a guard backup plan to Green and then he decided to go after Thorpe.

I bet another coach would have our offense better. He can still coach defense but you aren’t going to win a NC title without offense.
We beat Virginia in the elite 8 because we sped them up and made shots.
Our current system can’t rely on talent being perfect. That won’t sustain.
Our talent will be better next year but if we run the same offense and we will it won’t be consistently better it will be talent overcoming.

 

[RF2044]

If you don’t have the talent to run what you want you don’t run it.
That is why I can’t give the talent issue a pass.
Plus JB constructed this roster.
He doesn’t get a pass when we didn’t have a guard backup plan to Green and then he decided to go after Thorpe.

I bet another coach would have our offense better. He can still coach defense but you aren’t going to win a NC title without offense.
We beat Virginia in the elite 8 because we sped them up and made shots.
Our current system can’t rely on talent being perfect. That won’t sustain.
Our talent will be better next year but if we run the same offense and we will it won’t be consistently better it will be talent overcoming.

I don't give the talent issue a pass either -- that's one of the main issues for our predicament / depth / offensive circumstances.

Here's where I differ from the opinion you express above. Let's look at what happened on the others side of the floor before talking about offense. For years, people complained about the zone, especially when we had a small guy like Gmac up top, imperfect pieces of the puzzle like Pace / Harris playing on the back line. Why don't we adjust, people used to lament, we don't have the right personnel for this system. Well, JB went out and recruited the right personnel, and defense hasn't been an issue [outside of the absurdity that was 2017] for an extended period of time. Now, you can nitpick about whether we should switch things up more, press more, etc. but by and large our defense has gone from not having the right personnel to be effective / sustainable [using your term], to being consistently one of the best nationally, and some years elite nationally. No defense is impregnable, and won't ever be, but defense [outside of 2017] hasn't been a problem in a long time.

I think we're seeing a similar issue play out in terms of offensive play. Want better offense in general? Stop trying to convert bigger wings who lack point-guard acumen to lead guards, since the position is so vital in collegiate basketball. Recruit a lead guard who can actually orchestrate an offense and make the right plays in transition. If we'd landed [just for example] Monte Morris, and not had three different PGs in three consecutive years post-Ennis, I believe that the offense would have potentially thrived instead of struggling. Now, consider what having inadequate lead guard play means in terms of our half court offensive sets, and transition opportunities. Taking care of this issue year-over-year should be remediation goal #1 [and Carey is a step in the right direction in that regard].

We also need to recruit a full roster, so that we can shrug off injuries, instead of being completely hamstrung by them. And also so that if a player transfers [looking at you, Taurean] or leaves early a la Ennis / Dion / Mali / Lydon / Grant / McCullough, it won't be a colossal setback.

We need to stop sacrificing skill for athleticism, especially on the wings. It was great to read that article about Elijah Hughes yesterday, and how versatile he is. Now, time will true if that proves to be true -- but just imagine having a skilled wing who can actually shoot, handle, create his own shot, or serve as a playmaker for others? Now, compare that to Battle [who I like, but who hurts this team in some ways by not being more versatile] or Andrew White [who couldn't dribble down his chin] and what they brought to the table, and how their limitations bog down the offense. Players like Bazley and Hughes are going to do wonders for our offense, simply by being multi-dimensional.

We also need to introduce an element of inside play to the equation, to make us more difficult to defend. Maybe Sidibe will bring that next year. Perhaps Oshae will spend the offseason figuring out ways to be more effective scoring inside after a season of futility on two point FGs. Maybe Moyer will come back after a season's worth of game experience under his belt, and be an improved scorer in the paint. If those things happen, then our team isn't going to be easy to defend, defenses will pay for overplaying to take away guard penetration or challenge outside shooting, and overall offensive execution will be better.

I honestly believe that the issues you describe aren't insurmountable. Just as we straightened out the defense about 10 years ago, JB can right the ship in terms of offensive execution if they just do a better job with roster management, not sacrificing skill for athleticism / length, and building better depth to withstand the unexpected.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Thanks, Alsacs -- not sure that it warrants that praise, I posted it more to generate dialogue about whether the offensive system is the culprit, versus other factors [I think it is the latter].

Pretty spot on though. Geez I miss Gbinijie. Freaking MVP of the F4 team and he played downhill more than people think. He really had the ability to carry the team for stretches against very good competition. The quality of play then was way better than this year of ACC/college b-ball.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The 2010 team had an OUTSTANDING half court offense. That's the last team we've had for which we could say that was true. Consider the next 7 years.

2011 was a "meh" year, even with Rick inside. We struggled trying to replace Wes / Arinze, and were anemic offensively much of the year.

This is going to sound sacrilegious, but the 2012 team wasn't especially good at HALFCOURT offense, either. But we were so dynamite defensively / forcing turnovers that we got a TON of points in transition, which helped to mask our limitations [i.e., lack of inside scoring, streaky shooting]. And we came at teams in waves that year, so it was tough to gameplan how to stop us; focus [for example] on trying to take Kris Joseph away, and boom -- CJ or Dion or Triche go off and make you pay for selling out to take something away.

2013 had major halfcourt offensive limitations. Inside scoring was generally non-existent, until Keita starting giving us a minimal modicum of consistent production toward the postseason. Outside shooting was a streaky adventure -- even our best shooter, Southerland, was so up and down that any given game he might be invisible. CJ was the only consistent offensive player we had that year, in terms of both productivity and efficiency. But when the team put it together toward the end of the season, they were extremely dangerous.

2014 was the infamous Ennis / 25-0 year. We got a lot of bounces during the 25-0 run, and a lot of bounces went against us thereafter. We didn't push in transition, CJ's efficiency plummeted, and we were shooting challenged, with limited depth.

2015 was a strange year. We had no point guard, the focal point of our offense was getting the ball inside [for once]. We took top 10 teams like Notre Dame and Louisville to the woodshed, but were generally pretty poor, lacked depth, had a key injury, and couldn't shoot well. This season was noteworthy only for Rak's brilliance and Gbinije's emergence, otherwise more of the same vis a vis poor offense.

2016 was another strange year. Gbinije excelled as a full time lead guard, surprisingly. And we got off to a great start, after the team looked inept during the preseason portion of the schedule. But then we had the nine-game Boeheim suspension, depth was an issue, and two of our top four scorers were frosh. When we were dialed in, we could beat anybody and had a final four run. But the team had virtually no inside scoring, little balance, and was streaky. Good albeit streaky shooting, no inside scoring, limited transition game.

2017 team was ransacked by injuries, but had some incredible shooting, but no inside scoring and no offensive balance. We still could have overcome that and had a better season than we did, but the defense was uncharacteristically atrocious, and offset us beating three top 10 teams. Rare case where the offense shot incredibly well, but the team defense let us down.

2018 -- guards who can't get by anybody, below average three point shooting, limited inside scoring [although Sidibe has flashed], no transition game, challenges finishing inside, zero depth, and team ranked last in conference APG. Not a good formula for success.

So, in summary, we haven't had many years -- even during the second "golden era' -- where the offense has been good. Most years, we've struggled to execute half court offensive sets. The trends that I see over this span:

• Poor depth [outside of 2012] -- partially attributable to NCAA sanctions, partially attributable to injury
• One-dimensional offensive play
• Lack of inside scoring / outside scoring balance
• Decrease in transition scoring in recent years
• Subpar inside play [outside of 2010 and 2015]
• Numerous early defections to NBA
• Seven different starting point guards in seven consecutive seasons

Please note, that none of these issues relate to # of offensive plays, game planning, etc. I think that those are things people point to which are symptoms, not the actual problem we're seeing play out on the court.

If you go back to the aughts the story is a bit better but only because we had elite level college talent with Melo, Hakim, Gmac, Dion, Flynn, Devo, etc... it makes me so sad to think of the talent we used to have vs what we hav these days. The talent had gone down, especially in the guards. The offense never adjusted.

 

[dasher]

I don't give the talent issue a pass either -- that's one of the main issues for our predicament / depth / offensive circumstances.

Here's where I differ from the opinion you express above. The funny thing about sustainability -- for years, people complained about the zone, especially when we had a small guy like Gmac up top, imperfect pieces of the puzzle like Pace / Harris playing on the back line. Why don't we adjust, people used to lament, we don't have the right personnel for this system. Well, JB went out and recruited the right personnel, and defense hasn't been an issue [outside of the absurdity that was 2017] for an extended period of time.

I think we're seeing a similar issue play out in terms of offensive play. Want better offense in general? Recruit a lead guard who can actually orchestrate an offense and make the right plays in transition. If we'd landed [just for example] Monte Morris, and not had three different PGs in three consecutive years post-Ennis, I believe that the offense would have potentially thrived instead of struggling. Now, consider what having inadequate lead guard play means in terms of our half court offensive sets, and transition opportunities. Taking care of this issue year-over-year should be remediation goal #1 [and Carey is a step in the right direction in that regard].

We also need to recruit a full roster, so that we can shrug off injuries, instead of being completely hamstrung by them. And also so that if a player transfers [looking at you, Taurean] or leaves early a la Ennis / Dion / Mali / Lydon / Grant / McCullough, that it isn't a colossal setback.

We need to stop sacrificing skill for athleticism, especially on the wings. It was great to read that article about Elijah Hughes yesterday, and how versatile he is. Now, time will true if that proves to be true -- but just imagine having a skilled wing who can actually shoot, handle, create his own shot, or serve as a playmaker for others? Now, compare that to Battle [who I like, but who hurts this team in some ways by not being more versatile] or Andrew White [who couldn't dribble down his chin] and what they brought to the table, and how their limitations bog down the offense. Players like Bazley and Hughes are going to do wonders for our offense, simply by being multi-dimensional.

We also need to introduce an element of inside play to the equation, to make us more difficult to defend. Maybe Sidibe will bring that next year. Perhaps Oshae will spend the offseason figuring out ways to be more effective scoring inside after a season of futility on two point FGs. Maybe Moyer will come back after a season's worth of game experience under his belt, and be an improved scorer in the paint. If those things happen, then our team isn't going to be easy to defend, defenses will pay for overplaying to take away guard penetration or challenge outside shooting, and overall offensive execution will be better.

I honestly believe that the issues you describe aren't insurmountable. Just as we straightened out the defense about 10 years ago, JB can right the ship in terms of offensive execution if they just do a better job with roster management, not sacrificing skill for athleticism / length, and building better depth to withstand the unexpected.

RF, I think it is the sustainability part that scares me most as well as the recruiting and roster management part. I hate the way we go about recruiting. We have a program to sell. Really, with anyone. Even Kentucky and Duke in the right situation. But we only go after kids that make it known that they are interested in us. I HATE that. We just saw this with Montgomery. even after it was mentioned that he was very interested in us, we were slow to react because we wanted proof that it was real. Who cares if it was real. Get off your butt, go down and see the kid and sell him on visiting us. The sale starts when someone says no. Not an easy yes. Anyone can do that. We need to spread a wider net. And we can never allow our self to be left holding the bag again. But, I see it happening already for the year after next. We are slow to recruit because we aren't sure who will be coming back. To heck with that. Go full out and let the players sort it out. and let's not forget that Bazley, who is the main reason for hope next year, sort of came here almost on his own. Where would we be and what would we be thinking about next year if he stayed at Ohio St?

 

[RF2044]

RF, I think it is the sustainability part that scares me most as well as the recruiting and roster management part. I hate the way we go about recruiting. We have a program to sell. Really, with anyone. Even Kentucky and Duke in the right situation. But we only go after kids that make it known that they are interested in us. I HATE that. We just saw this with Montgomery. even after it was mentioned that he was very interested in us, we were slow to react because we wanted proof that it was real. Who cares if it was real. Get off your butt, go down and see the kid and sell him on visiting us. The sale starts when someone says no. Not an easy yes. Anyone can do that. We need to spread a wider net. And we can never allow our self to be left holding the bag again. But, I see it happening already for the year after next. We are slow to recruit because we aren't sure who will be coming back. To heck with that. Go full out and let the players sort it out.

Completely agree -- can't sit back on your heels and wait for players to come to you. You might get some decent players that way, but you aren't going to compete for NCs following that approach. It was so refreshing to see Hopkin's departure light a fire under the old man, after he'd spent the previous several off-seasons seemingly content to delegate while he was participating in USA Basketball for the summer.

Maybe Montgomery wasn't a viable option, and hence not the best example -- who knows -- but a kid like Matt Coleman applies here. Just imagine if we'd actively recruited the kid instead of telling him that we "loved" his game but were going all-in on Quade Green. Hell, maybe recruiting Coleman actively would have put pressure on Green to pull the trigger sooner.

Your post is spot on, IMO. A big part of our problem has been not just being down a couple of scholarships, but also not filling them to full capacity. Maybe we would have been more prepared to shake off an unexpected departure like Mali's if they'd had an expanded roster. Hell, in 2012 -- our best regular season ever -- we had a ton of good players, and Boeheim used a LOT of them in the regular rotation. Recruit a full roster of players, and then let PT sort itself out in practice / games.

Recruiting at the high major college level is HARD. You can't just settle for easy wins, to avoid the hard work that is necessary to compete at a high level. Here's hoping that the 2018 class is a sign that the old man is committed to putting in the work from here on out.

 

[dasher]

Completely agree -- can't sit back on your heels and wait for players to come to you. You might get some decent players that way, but you aren't going to compete for NCs following that approach. It was so refreshing to see Hopkin's departure light a fire under the old man, after he'd spent the previous several off-seasons seemingly content to delegate while he was participating in USA Basketball for the summer.

Maybe Montgomery wasn't a viable option, and hence not the best example -- who knows -- but a kid like Matt Coleman applies here. Just imagine if we'd actively recruited the kid instead of telling him that we "loved" his game but were going all-in on Quade Green. Hell, maybe recruiting Coleman actively would have put pressure on Green to pull the trigger sooner.

Your post is spot on, IMO. A big part of our problem has been not just being down a couple of scholarships, but also not filling them to full capacity. Maybe we would have been more prepared to shake off an unexpected departure like Mali's if they'd had an expanded roster. Hell, in 2012 -- our best regular season ever -- we had a ton of good players, and Boeheim used a LOT of them in the regular rotation. Recruit a full roster of players, and then let PT sort itself out in practice / games.

Recruiting at the high major college level is HARD. You can't just settle for easy wins, to avoid the hard work that is necessary to compete at a high level. Here's hoping that the 2018 class is a sign that the old man is committed to putting in the work from here on out.

That is why Troy Weaver was such a breath of fresh air. He had that belief that he was at Syracuse and we could land anyone. When Hodge went down to N.C. State, Weaver went there as well and ran in to him at a football tailgate. We didn't get Hodge but that is the effort I want. Duke and Kentucky get those guys because they go all out to get those guys. Maybe we can't recruit with them every time. Okay. But we should be involved with more kids that we are.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

How does someone manage to play over 1800 minutes in the NBA without any NBA-worthy skills?

37+ games. Really? That's an extended tryout. He proved my point.

 

[kirbivore]

I want to disagree with all the derision towards JB's offense. I want to say, "yeah, but..." but I can't. Valid points being made all around last night/this morning.

You are a reasonable JB defender unlike some who have a propensity to get conference realignment predictions horribly wrong.

 

[kirbivore]

Because we never run anymore. And we only run about 5 sets in the halfcourt. We are so damn predictable that it hurts to watch.

someone needs to make a paper airplane out of a pizza box and fly it to the bench

 

[br801]

37+ games. Really? That's an extended tryout. He proved my point.

Only if you think every good college player just strolls into the NBA and has a lengthy career.