We need to hire an offensive coordinator.

[Col. Bleep]

At least he doesn’t think he can shoot, unlike Elvir Ovcina.

Elvir should have played the 2.
(At least he seems to have thought so).
At 6'11" he could have a shot any time ...unblockable.

 

[TinyManInside]

Elvir should have played the 2.
(At least he seems to have thought so).
At 6'11" he could have a shot any time ...unblockable.

He was one of the best practice shooters at SU I ever saw. Never translated to game shooting though.

 

[NKR1978]

You can defend JB but our 2013 team had MCW, Triche, Fair, Southerland and Rak/Keita and Grant and it was a terrible halfcourt team.
He doesn’t do anything to help the offense.

According to KenPom the 2013 team was 26th in offense efficiency. That's pretty good.

 

[Alsacs]

According to KenPom the 2013 team was 26th in offense efficiency. That's pretty good.

Efficient because MCW was dominant in the non conference play.
During conference play look at our PPG.

 

[RF2044]

He was one of the best practice shooters at SU I ever saw. Never translated to game shooting though.

That was Gorman for me. Uncanny. Kid was a light's out shooter in practice.

 

[br801]

Efficient because MCW was dominant in the non conference play.
During conference play look at our PPG.

Look at the average scoring margin for that team, especially in the NCAAT; it was among the best in program history by that metric.

 

[NKR1978]

Efficient because MCW was dominant in the non conference play.
During conference play look at our PPG.

I was actually surprised looking that up.

Everything about the program feels stale right now. I'm not losing sleep over it this year, but the knives will be out if things aren't significantly better next year. I really do think that next year's team is going to remind us a bit like 2009. But instead of being #10 in offense and #39 in defense, we'll hopefully be top 40 in offense and top 15 in defense.

 

[Gotothehole]

I was actually surprised looking that up.

Everything about the program feels stale right now. I'm not losing sleep over it this year, but the knives will be out if things aren't significantly better next year. I really do think that next year's team is going to remind us a bit like 2009. But instead of being #10 in offense and #39 in defense, we'll hopefully be top 40 in offense and top 15 in defense.

Some you hate change so this we are stuck with

 

[Alsacs]

Look at the average scoring margin for that team, especially in the NCAAT; it was among the best in program history by that metric.

The 2013 offense was not good.
When you struggle to score 60 points that isn’t good.
Scoring margin was good because that was the best zone D ever.

That offense scored over 66 one time against P5 teams from the BET Quartetfinals to the Final Four.

That isn’t good offense.

 

[br801]

The 2013 offense was not good.
When you struggle to score 60 points that isn’t good.
Scoring margin was good because that was the best zone D ever.

That offense scored over 66 one time against P5 teams from the BET Quartetfinals to the Final Four.

That isn’t good offense.

That offense certainly struggled at times but as NKR1978 noted above, it was quite efficient overall. Sure, that team was historically good defensively, but that wasn't the whole story. And their overall scoring margin is all the more impressive given the pace of play.

 

[NKR1978]

Some you hate change so this we are stuck with

Google translate couldn't save this sentence.
But I'm not sure how a top 15 recruiting class doesn't mix things up when you combine them with some talented returning players. Though if our PG situation doesn't improve, it might not matter.

 

[bevosu]

This team lacks passers. there really are only two players who have shown any ability to find (or look for) a teammate in favorable scoring position. Howard and Marek. Washington...??

In a half court offense it helps to have at least a couple of decent passers...although the way we shoot it's difficult to say any open shot is a good shot.

Battle's numbers aren't all that good...1.6 assists per game with the minutes he plays. Dolezaj has the same total number of assists with almost half the minutes and Marek actually has a higher FG percentage.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Efficient because MCW was dominant in the non conference play.
During conference play look at our PPG.

Efficiency isn't about PPG - it's about points per possession.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Though if our PG situation doesn't improve, it might not matter.

That's a major issue.
(And by the way, isn't the point guard supposed to be the "offensive coordinator")?

Jalen Carey is another player who is being converted to point guard.
Another point by necessity...as opposed to a player who is more of a "natural" point.
My view is you can only teach so much...a player has to have the knack and "feel" that position.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Regarding the Louisville zone and their short guards... I would argue that they play much more of a pressure zone where having short quick guards is a bonus. The cards extend way out and exert so much ball pressure that height doesn’t matter.

But that highlights another weakness of our HOF coach... in order to pressure like Louisville you need to actually develop a bench and use it and we all knows that’s against the law in Syracuse. So instead we set back and let other people control tempo and negate the advantage of our superior talent... Genius.

I think next year is it for JB... I don’t think the team will be much better because we still won’ t have a guard, we will still play at a snails pace, our D is going to be worse because we are going to have freshmen play, and our offense is still the toilet bowl offense.

I hope I am wrong because I would actually like to enjoy SU basketball again someday.

 

[Alsacs]

That offense certainly struggled at times but as NKR1978 noted above, it was quite efficient overall. Sure, that team was historically good defensively, but that wasn't the whole story. And their overall scoring margin is all the more impressive given the pace of play.

I looked it up on college stats. Our offense wasn’t better in 2013.
We just ran a lot more in transition and those baskets pump up our efficiency.
MCW was a great transition PG.
Our halfcourt offense was not good in 2013.
If this team ran like the 2013 team our efficiency would be better.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I looked it up on college stats. Our offense wasn’t better in 2013.
We just ran a lot more in transition and those baskets pump up our efficiency.
MCW was a great transition PG.
Our halfcourt offense was not good in 2013.
If this team ran like the 2013 team our efficiency would be better.

Except they can’t. That is one area I think I agree with JB on. Frank is incapable of pushing it. His speed and handle is subpar. He just ice skates and glides around one speed. Then the forwards/centers have trouble finishing. Plus there is no depth so they have to be very careful and selective with it.

 

[br801]

I looked it up on college stats. Our offense wasn’t better in 2013.
We just ran a lot more in transition and those baskets pump up our efficiency.
MCW was a great transition PG.
Our halfcourt offense was not good in 2013.
If this team ran like the 2013 team our efficiency would be better.

More transition opportunities won't improve your offensive efficiency if your team is lousy in transition. I haven't seen much from this current group that inspires confidence.

 

[Alsacs]

More transition opportunities won't improve your offensive efficiency if your team is lousy in transition. I haven't seen much from this current group that inspires confidence.

All I did was show 2013 wasn’t a good offensive team.
It ran well and the transition masked the stats.
The halfcourt offense wasn’t good.
That was the point.
The fact we can’t scheme anything in offensive sets and continue to do what isn’t working is terrible coaching.
Scoring 60 points is an outburst.
That is pathetic.

 

[Alsacs]

Except they can’t. That is one area I think I agree with JB on. Frank is incapable of pushing it. His speed and handle is subpar. He just ice skates and glides around one speed. Then the forwards/centers have trouble finishing. Plus there is no depth so they have to be very careful and selective with it.

You know what isn’t working?
What we are doing now.
If you don’t take advantage of situations in transition that hurts the offense.
As we know we are terrible 5 on 5 in the halfcourt.

 

[Forloveoforange]

Transition is dangerous, though. We lost McCullough to a transition play, although it wasn't what you would think. He was a great player that we got no use out of due to a transition play. Maybe that was the transition to no transition.

 

[br801]

You know what isn’t working?
What we are doing now.
If you don’t take advantage of situations in transition that hurts the offense.
As we know we are terrible 5 on 5 in the halfcourt.

Let's try 40 minutes of hell with 5 or 6 healthy bodies then.

 

[RF2044]

The 2010 team had an OUTSTANDING half court offense. That's the last team we've had for which we could say that was true. Consider the next 7 years.

2011 was a "meh" year, even with Rick inside. We struggled trying to replace Wes / Arinze / Andy, and were anemic offensively much of the year.

This is going to sound sacrilegious, but the 2012 team wasn't especially good at HALFCOURT offense, either. But we were so dynamite defensively / forcing turnovers that we got a TON of points in transition, which helped to mask our limitations [i.e., lack of inside scoring, streaky shooting]. And we came at teams in waves that year, so it was tough to gameplan how to stop us; focus [for example] on trying to take Kris Joseph away, and boom -- CJ or Dion or Triche go off and make you pay for selling out to take something away.

2013 had major halfcourt offensive limitations. Inside scoring was generally non-existent, until Keita starting giving us a minimal modicum of consistent production toward the postseason. Outside shooting was a streaky adventure -- even our best shooter, Southerland, was so up and down that any given game he might be invisible. CJ was the only consistent offensive player we had that year, in terms of both productivity and efficiency. But when the team put it together toward the end of the season, they were extremely dangerous.

2014 was the infamous Ennis / 25-0 year. We got a lot of bounces during the 25-0 run, and a lot of bounces went against us thereafter. We didn't push in transition, CJ's efficiency plummeted, and we were shooting challenged, with limited depth.

2015 was a strange year. We had no point guard, the focal point of our offense was getting the ball inside [for once]. We took top 10 teams like Notre Dame and Louisville to the woodshed, but were generally pretty poor, lacked depth, had a key injury, and couldn't shoot well. This season was noteworthy only for Rak's brilliance and Gbinije's emergence, otherwise more of the same vis a vis poor offense.

2016 was another strange year. Gbinije excelled as a full time lead guard, surprisingly. And we got off to a great start, after the team looked inept during the preseason portion of the schedule. But then we had the nine-game Boeheim suspension, depth was an issue, and two of our top four scorers were frosh. When we were dialed in, we could beat anybody and had a final four run. But the team had virtually no inside scoring, little balance, and was streaky. Good albeit streaky shooting, no inside scoring, limited transition game.

2017 team was ransacked by injuries, but had some incredible shooting, but no inside scoring and no offensive balance. We still could have overcome that and had a better season than we did, but the defense was uncharacteristically atrocious, and offset us beating three top 10 teams. Rare case where the offense shot incredibly well, but the team defense let us down.

2018 -- guards who can't get by anybody, below average three point shooting, limited inside scoring [although Sidibe has flashed], no transition game, challenges finishing inside, zero depth, and team ranked last in conference APG. Not a good formula for success.

So, in summary, we haven't had many years -- even during the second "golden era' -- where the offense has been good. Most years, we've struggled to execute half court offensive sets. The trends that I see over this span:

• Poor depth [outside of 2012] -- partially attributable to NCAA sanctions, partially attributable to injury
• One-dimensional offensive play
• Lack of inside scoring / outside scoring balance
• Decrease in transition scoring in recent years
• Subpar inside play [outside of 2010 and 2015]
• Numerous early defections to NBA
• Seven different starting point guards in seven consecutive seasons

Please note, that none of these issues relate to # of offensive plays, game planning, etc. I think that those are things people point to which are symptoms, not the actual problem we're seeing play out on the court.

 

[Alsacs]

The 2010 team had an OUTSTANDING half court offense. That's the last team we've had for which we could say that was true. Consider the next 7 years.

2011 was a "meh" year, even with Rick inside. We struggled trying to replace Wes / Arinze, and were anemic offensively much of the year.

This is going to sound sacrilegious, but the 2012 team wasn't especially good at HALFCOURT offense, either. But we were so dynamite defensively / forcing turnovers that we got a TON of points in transition, which helped to mask our limitations [i.e., lack of inside scoring, streaky shooting]. And we came at teams in waves that year, so it was tough to gameplan how to stop us; focus [for example] on trying to take Kris Joseph away, and boom -- CJ or Dion or Triche go off and make you pay for selling out to take something away.

2013 had major halfcourt offensive limitations. Inside scoring was generally non-existent, until Keita starting giving us a minimal modicum of consistent production toward the postseason. Outside shooting was a streaky adventure -- even our best shooter, Southerland, was so up and down that any given game he might be invisible. CJ was the only consistent offensive player we had that year, in terms of both productivity and efficiency. But when the team put it together toward the end of the season, they were extremely dangerous.

2014 was the infamous Ennis / 25-0 year. We got a lot of bounces during the 25-0 run, and a lot of bounces went against us thereafter. We didn't push in transition, CJ's efficiency plummeted, and we were shooting challenged, with limited depth.

2015 was a strange year. We had no point guard, the focal point of our offense was getting the ball inside [for once]. We took top 10 teams like Notre Dame and Louisville to the woodshed, but were generally pretty poor, lacked depth, had a key injury, and couldn't shoot well. This season was noteworthy only for Rak's brilliance and Gbinije's emergence, otherwise more of the same vis a vis poor offense.

2016 was another strange year. Gbinije excelled as a full time lead guard, surprisingly. And we got off to a great start, after the team looked inept during the preseason portion of the schedule. But then we had the nine-game Boeheim suspension, depth was an issue, and two of our top four scorers were frosh. When we were dialed in, we could beat anybody and had a final four run. But the team had virtually no inside scoring, little balance, and was streaky. Good albeit streaky shooting, no inside scoring, limited transition game.

2017 team was ransacked by injuries, but had some incredible shooting, but no inside scoring and no offensive balance. We still could have overcome that and had a better season than we did, but the defense was uncharacteristically atrocious, and offset us beating three top 10 teams. Rare case where the offense shot incredibly well, but the team defense let us down.

2018 -- guards who can't get by anybody, below average three point shooting, limited inside scoring [although Sidibe has flashed], no transition game, challenges finishing inside, zero depth, and team ranked last in conference APG. Not a good formula for success.

So, in summary, we haven't had many years -- even during the second "golden era' -- where the offense has been good. Most years, we've struggled to execute half court offensive sets. The trends that I see over this span:

• Poor depth [outside of 2012] -- partially attributable to NCAA sanctions, partially attributable to injury
• One-dimensional offensive play
• Lack of inside scoring / outside scoring balance
• Decrease in transition scoring in recent years
• Subpar inside play [outside of 2010 and 2015]
• Numerous early defections to NBA
• Seven different starting point guards in seven consecutive seasons

Please note, that none of these issues relate to # of offensive plays, game planning, etc. I think that those are things people point to which are symptoms, not the actual problem we're seeing play out on the court.

This post shouldn’t be buried here it
Should be the state of program post.

 

[RF2044]

This post shouldn’t be buried here it
Should be the state of program post.

Thanks, Alsacs -- not sure that it warrants that praise, I posted it more to generate dialogue about whether the offensive system is the culprit, versus other factors [I think it is the latter].