We're still a very good program

[orange79]

That begs the question- does anybody here know wildhack personally or privy to any insider conversations? The public has a right to know where ADJW stands with the basketball program.

Actually, no, they don't.

 

[SU94]

the idea that you fire someone who is still doing a pretty good job and is going to retire soon because he isn't as great as he used to be is also unhealthy

this isn't some publicly traded stock either

The SU program goes through ebbs and flows. We are currrently in an ebb. Doesn’t it get down to these factors?
• Five years ago we were in the Big East. Geographically, this was a better fit for talent procument and we were the alpha. (I am pro ACC BTW, but it has changed things for the program).
• Top shelf programs and talent in the ACC > Big East, at least most years.
• The NCAA sanctions. Not only a reduction of scholarships, but we have to be squeekly clean when recruiting. And more and more kids now have their hands out.
• JAB’s age is not killing us, but it is not helping either.
• Lots of roster uncertainty (early entry, a few recruiting misses-which happen, transfers).
• SU is facing a much, much, much harder OOC schedule in Nov and December.
• Loss of vibrant, fun, optimistic lead assistant coach who was the acknowledged successor. Players leaned on him.
• I am pro zone myself, but I think it keeps us out of a few choice recruiting wars annually.
• Pace of scoring. We are no longer a team that gets out on the break with any regularity. No rebounding. No Derrick Coleman, John Wallace, Carmelo. Very half court, guard centric.

 

[SUFan44]

The SU program goes through ebbs and flows. We are currrently in an ebb. Doesn’t it get down to these factors?
• Five years ago we were in the Big East. Geographically, this was a better fit for talent procument and we were the alpha. (I am pro ACC BTW, but it has changed things for the program).
• Top shelf programs and talent in the ACC > Big East, at least most years.
• The NCAA sanctions. Not only a reduction of scholarships, but we have to be squeekly clean when recruiting. And more and more kids now have their hands out.
• JAB’s age is not killing us, but it is not helping either.
• Lots of roster uncertainty (early entry, a few recruiting misses-which happen, transfers).
• SU is facing a much, much, much harder OOC schedule in Nov and December.
• Loss of vibrant, fun, optimistic lead assistant coach who was the acknowledged successor. Players leaned on him.
• I am pro zone myself, but I think it keeps us out of a few choice recruiting wars annually.
• Pace of scoring. We are no longer a team that gets out on the break with any regularity. No rebounding. No Derrick Coleman, John Wallace, Carmelo. Very half court, guard centric.

Majority of these have directly to do with the head coach.

 

[SU94]

Majority of these have directly to do with the head coach.

The last three bullets, yes.
That said, I agee with Millhouse’s original post/basic premise. We’re doing just fine, well within the long established ceiling and floor of SU basketball. Unfortunately, this batch of players did not fit together as well as hoped. That happens in all programs.

JAB has some work to do, as does Wildhack.
My best guess is that JAB’s final three seasons will be better than we’ve seen the last 2-3 yeas, and not as lofty as the 2009-14 “era.”

 

[br801]

That begs the question- does anybody here know wildhack personally or privy to any insider conversations? The public has a right to know where ADJW stands with the basketball program.

You believe "the public has a right to know" this? Really?

 

[FrancoPizza]

You believe "the public has a right to know" this? Really?

I think season ticket holders and donors should be given a 5-year plan that outlines wildhack’s vision for the basketball program. No different than how shareholders expect a CEO to provide strategic roadmaps. Right now nobody has a clue when JB will step down. We’re only speculating. And we don’t know if he’ll let JB influence the next hire or if we’ll go big and find the best national candidate. Many STHs are holding on to their seats waiting to see how this shakes out.

 

[SUFan44]

The last three bullets, yes.
That said, I agee with Millhouse’s original post/basic premise. We’re doing just fine, well within the long established ceiling and floor of SU basketball. Unfortunately, this batch of players did not fit together as well as hoped. That happens in all programs.

JAB has some work to do, as does Wildhack.
My best guess is that JAB’s final three seasons will be better than we’ve seen the last 2-3 yeas, and not as lofty as the 2009-14 “era.”

I hope you're right. Honestly, I don't see it being better next year. We still have no center (unless Sidibe makes a miraculous leap). And we still have no point guard (unless Carey makes a similar leap, or a true freshman enters the mix and can do it). Our defense will likely be much worse without Battle & Howard up top and it wasn't as good as it has been last year.

 

[HakAttack]

Losing thousands of STH? Who are you kidding with this statement? They'd have to fall to where UConn currently is for that to begin to happen. Syracuse Basketball is the only game in Central New York which is why the leash is as long as it is here. When the program begins missing the tournament outright for multiple seasons in a row that's when the bleeding has to be stopped. The football program suffered because Robinson's teams were never competitive. Give the fans a bowl game or two and they'll deal with mediocrity. It was a terrible year for the basketball team and they underachieved, but they aren't close to what you're suggesting may happen.

You mean like in 2007 and 2008?

 

[cuse10]

You mean like in 2007 and 2008?

Both of those were years they should have been in. When they're performing Robinson era bad, then you'll see fans quit on them, but you knew that.

 

[nzm136]

Majority of these have directly to do with the former head football coach at Penn State and his friend and long time DC.

I made some minor edits, but I generally agree.

 

[jncuse]

I know people are upset that we haven't been great the last 5 years but here is the list of teams that have an SRS rating (schedule adjusted point differential) of 44 or better the last 5 years that have also made a final 4 in that time

Duke
Gonzaga
Michigan State
Kentucky
Kansas
Villanova
Syracuse
UNC (EDIT i missed them)

That's good company. That's a bad stretch for Boeheim and it's still something that most schools can't accomplish. Stop being babies.

Boeheim knows the zone gives us a high floor and that does count for something and it doesn't stop us from sweet 16s and final 4s. People are making it out like this is some dragged out sucky period where we have to indulge the old man. Temple comparisons? Cheney couldn't win 20 in the A10 those late years

So our program has had more success than Viriginia?

These arbitrary measurements to group us at the same level as teams that are clearly superior, and omit teams that are clearly superior, are just silly.

 

[Millhouse]

I hope you're right. Honestly, I don't see it being better next year. We still have no center (unless Sidibe makes a miraculous leap). And we still have no point guard (unless Carey makes a similar leap, or a true freshman enters the mix and can do it). Our defense will likely be much worse without Battle & Howard up top and it wasn't as good as it has been last year.

i'm very concerned about next year - i want a free agent pg and center despite how the senior transfer seasons have gone

 

[Millhouse]

So our program has had more success than Viriginia?

These arbitrary measurements to group us at the same level as teams that are clearly superior, and omit teams that are clearly superior, are just silly.

it's not arbitrary to use the rating i've used a million times. the dunces in this thread are acting like final fours are some arbitrary obscure thing to look at.

i never said that having a high floor is the only thing - i am just pointing out that it is a thing - if all the people who got so emotional about it were being honest, they'd admit they were surprised these are such small groups

we all know duke is superior. i didn't think i needed to say that but i was giving this board too much credit

the thread title says very good. first post also concedes we haven't been great. of course friggin Duke Kentucky and UNC are better than just very good. it goes without saying

 

[doc05]

I don't see it being better next year. We still have no center (unless Sidibe makes a miraculous leap). And we still have no point guard (unless Carey makes a similar leap, or a true freshman enters the mix and can do it). Our defense will likely be much worse without Battle & Howard up top and it wasn't as good as it has been last year.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[OrangeAl]

I think season ticket holders and donors should be given a 5-year plan that outlines wildhack’s vision for the basketball program. No different than how shareholders expect a CEO to provide strategic roadmaps. Right now nobody has a clue when JB will step down. We’re only speculating. And we don’t know if he’ll let JB influence the next hire or if we’ll go big and find the best national candidate. Many STHs are holding on to their seats waiting to see how this shakes out.

Let me save you the suspense - his vision is that SU is one of the top teams in the ACC, making serious runs in the NCAA tournament, while developing young men through academic and athletic success. I wouldn't expect a timetable or a coach in waiting. That didn't work out well for us last time.

 

[Briancuse]

Both of those were years they should have been in. When they're performing Robinson era bad, then you'll see fans quit on them, but you knew that.

2008 team didnt deserve a bid.

 

[rrlbees]

I think season ticket holders and donors should be given a 5-year plan that outlines wildhack’s vision for the basketball program. No different than how shareholders expect a CEO to provide strategic roadmaps. Right now nobody has a clue when JB will step down. We’re only speculating. And we don’t know if he’ll let JB influence the next hire or if we’ll go big and find the best national candidate. Many STHs are holding on to their seats waiting to see how this shakes out.

I’m glad you speak for all STH’s. I’ve been one for over 40 years. My relatives and close friends have been for almost as long. I’ve gotten to know many many other SU fans who are STH’s over the years. We’ve had many of the same STH’s around us in our section for at least several years if not longer. I know many STH’s from this board.

Not one, that I know of, is holding on to their seats waiting to see “how this shakes out”. Never heard that mentioned in any discussion.

 

[Lucid]

Many STHs are holding on to their seats waiting to see how this shakes out.

Couldn't tell if you meant Season Ticket Holders OR Shaking Their Head's?

 

[Sherman20]

Ehh somehow I doubt fans would be cool with that. I was a little kid then but weren't the early to mid 80s miserable due to not doing well in March? I definitely remember my dad talking about people wanting JB fired because he can't win games in the tournament.

Yes, definitely. This was always the criticism about JB—for 11 years until he made the title game in 1987. He couldn’t get the monkey off his back and win more than 1 game in the tourney. But he was never in danger of being fired.

I consider Purdue a top 20-25 program all-time with a fantastic fan base, and they haven’t made a Final Four since 1980. Keady was a great coach who never made a FF, and Painter is doing an awesome job. But their fans are still frustrated because of lack of FFs. things are looking better there as they’ve now made 3 straight Sweet 16s, and they’re gonna have their breakthrough one of these years. So while I hate our recent regular season mediocrity, winning in the tourney matters and has softened the blow a bit.

 

[kingtidge]

I hope you're right. Honestly, I don't see it being better next year. We still have no center (unless Sidibe makes a miraculous leap). And we still have no point guard (unless Carey makes a similar leap, or a true freshman enters the mix and can do it). Our defense will likely be much worse without Battle & Howard up top and it wasn't as good as it has been last year.

We have a center coming in.

Jon Bol Ajak.

He's a 3-star, #402 ranked player in the nation, #66 at the C position (by 2.4.7 eval)

Will he hit the ground running and contribute right away? I hope so, but if history is any guide, don't hold your breath.

Centers outside the top 25 typically mean project... And projects are usually what we wind up with. Hope I'm wrong about that tho. Hell, we even took providence's project on transfer with chewy.

JG3 is a combo shooting guard and also plays point.

At 6-1, I'd expect he'll get significant time at point if he is as advertised.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I’m glad you speak for all STH’s. I’ve been one for over 40 years. My relatives and close friends have been for almost as long. I’ve gotten to know many many other SU fans who are STH’s over the years. We’ve had many of the same STH’s around us in our section for at least several years if not longer. I know many STH’s from this board.

Not one, that I know of, is holding on to their seats waiting to see “how this shakes out”. Never heard that mentioned in any discussion.

What I’m saying is many STHs have been in their seats for decades. There’s a lot of sentimental and emotional attachment to this investment. That’s the reason the core of 18,000 have held pretty steady through this latest dark period. They’re not happy with the state of the program but they’re also not willing to dump their seats when a new era is on the horizon. If we lose these people it’s not going to be easy to win them back. Look no further than football’s struggles.

 

[Townie72]

What I’m saying is many STDs have been in their seats for decades. There’s a lot of sentimental and emotional attachment to this investment. That’s the reason the core of 18,000 have held pretty steady through this latest dark period. They’re not happy with the state of the program but they’re also not willing to dump their seats when a new era is on the horizon. If we lose these people it’s not going to be easy to win them back. Look no further than football’s struggles.

What you said was “Many season ticket holders are waiting to see how this shakes out” which rrlbees quickly debunked.

It’s pretty evident that you don’t have the foggiest clue what STH’s are thinking.

Why not just say that if the STH base erodes, it will be difficult to rebuild it. And that’s why you are in a state of panic.

 

[kingtidge]

What I’m saying is many STDs have been in their seats for decades. There’s a lot of sentimental and emotional attachment to this investment. That’s the reason the core of 18,000 have held pretty steady through this latest dark period. They’re not happy with the state of the program but they’re also not willing to dump their seats when a new era is on the horizon. If we lose these people it’s not going to be easy to win them back. Look no further than football’s struggles.

STD's?

There's meds for those! Lol.