What constitutes a Syracuse hoops legend? | Syracusefan.com

What constitutes a Syracuse hoops legend?

jekelish

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Last night Brent Axe sent out a tweet that kicked off a lively discussion on Twitter about what makes a Syracuse legend, and who could realistically be included in the mix. As one of the participants in that debate, I decided it'd be fun to write something up about it: http://.com/what-constitutes-a-syracuse-hoops-legend/

It's always a fun discussion for me, to see the differing points of view on various players.
 
First, I'm not sure how you cannot include Rony Seikaly as a legend. The University would disagree, as his jersey is hanging in the rafters.

As for Gerry McNamara, I'm not sure that is un-debatable. I do think GMac is debatable. Personally, I'm not sure that he belongs in that company. I do believe that Warrick belongs in that company. If you are going to consider GMac a legend, than you have to Hakim Warrick by default is a legend. Quite bluntly, Warrick was the better basketball player and an All-American. And he has the most famous block in school history.
 
I don't particularly disagree with any of that, except that I think Gerry is unquestionably a legend. Aside from what he did on the court, he's got this larger than life persona in SU history, thanks to the busloads of fans, the "GER-RY!" chants, and just generally the fact that I'm not sure I've seen a more popular Syracuse player since I've been old enough to really pay attention (I was only 5 by the time Pearl left SU). I think that immense popularity gives him a sort of mythical/legendary status.
 
My SU legends
1. Dave Bing
2. Carmelo Anthony
3. Sherman Douglas
4. Lawrence Moten
5. Derrick Coleman
6/7. Bouie and Louie

I am sure I am missing a lot but you need to be a multiple year elite player or in Carmelo's case be so damn good you lead the team to the title.
 
First, I'm not sure how you cannot include Rony Seikaly as a legend. The University would disagree, as his jersey is hanging in the rafters.

As for Gerry McNamara, I'm not sure that is un-debatable. I do think GMac is debatable. Personally, I'm not sure that he belongs in that company. I do believe that Warrick belongs in that company. If you are going to consider GMac a legend, than you have to Hakim Warrick by default is a legend. Quite bluntly, Warrick was the better basketball player and an All-American. And he has the most famous block in school history.
I love GMac I was at every of his home games, but he was a great player but not a legend for me.
The dude was asked to carry a lot of the load and we wouldn't have won ten bleeping games without him in 06 but I can't put him as a legend. CJ Fair could be considered a legend if GMac is.
 
Last night Brent Axe sent out a tweet that kicked off a lively discussion on Twitter about what makes a Syracuse legend, and who could realistically be included in the mix. As one of the participants in that debate, I decided it'd be fun to write something up about it: http://.com/what-constitutes-a-syracuse-hoops-legend/

It's always a fun discussion for me, to see the differing points of view on various players.

In chronological order since I started watching 'Cuse hoops:

Louie & Bouie
Pearl
Douglas
Coleman
Owens
Wallace
Carmelo
Gmac
 
My SU legends
1. Dave Bing
2. Carmelo Anthony
3. Sherman Douglas
4. Lawrence Moten
5. Derrick Coleman
6/7. Bouie and Louie

I am sure I am missing a lot but you need to be a multiple year elite player or in Carmelo's case be so damn good you lead the team to the title.

Pearl has to make the list also but I agree with your selections.
 
In chronological order since I started watching 'Cuse hoops:

Louie & Bouie
Pearl
Douglas
Coleman
Owens
Wallace
Carmelo
Gmac
I forgot Pearl he is definitely a legend. Warrick played 4 years and was a first team all-American if GMac is legend then Warrick has to be a legend.
 
I forgot Pearl he is definitely a legend. Warrick played 4 years and was a first team all-American if GMac is legend then Warrick has to be a legend.

A legend is that unquantifiable combination of career stats, postseason success, performances in big moments and personal opinion.

That is my list.

My next tier is

Addison
Seikaly
Stevie Thompson
Moten
Autry
Sims
Warrick
Flynn

Other than Carmelo, it is very hard for guys who only had one significant season for us to be legends but Wes, Dion & MCW get mention as special contributors.

To answer your specific question, 6 for 6 from 3 in our biggest game ever, the 2006 Big East tournament and BYU are what puts GMAC over the top.

Warrick had a great career and the block but Gmac had stones. As I said, personal opinion.
 
I don't particularly disagree with any of that, except that I think Gerry is unquestionably a legend. Aside from what he did on the court, he's got this larger than life persona in SU history, thanks to the busloads of fans, the "GER-RY!" chants, and just generally the fact that I'm not sure I've seen a more popular Syracuse player since I've been old enough to really pay attention (I was only 5 by the time Pearl left SU). I think that immense popularity gives him a sort of mythical/legendary status.

If GMac isn't a legend, than nobody in the history of Syracuse basketball is a legend.
 
CJ Fair could be considered a legend if GMac is.

To be a legend (in my opinion) you have to have iconic moments/games that will exist forever in Syracuse basketball memory. There is absolutely nobody in the history of the program that can touch GMac in that regard...

-Game winner vs. ND in the Dome in 2003
-Heroics in the national title game
-Game winner at Georgetown in 2004
-Greatest individual performance in SU NCAA history vs BYU in 2004
-2006 BET

What are CJ Fair's iconic moments that will cause people to remember him? I loved CJ but the only thing that pops in my head is his big dunk in the BET vs. Georgetown.
 
Dave Bing
Jim Lee hit the biggest shot in su history at the time
Pearl
Sherman douglas
Derrick Coleman
Billy Owens
John Wallace
Hak
G-mac
Melo
Flynn
 
stone567 said:
First, I'm not sure how you cannot include Rony Seikaly as a legend. The University would disagree, as his jersey is hanging in the rafters.

As for Gerry McNamara, I'm not sure that is un-debatable. I do think GMac is debatable. Personally, I'm not sure that he belongs in that company. I do believe that Warrick belongs in that company. If you are going to consider GMac a legend, than you have to Hakim Warrick by default is a legend. Quite bluntly, Warrick was the better basketball player and an All-American. And he has the most famous block in school history.

6 3s in the first half against Kansas.
The 43 points against BYU.
Go ahead 3 late against Notre Dame.
2006 Big East Tournament.
Not 10 f****** games.
The fairly iconic image of him shooting the 3 with blood dripping down his face against Oklahoma State.

Was the greatest or most talented player in SU history? No, not at all. I think you could make an argument that Devendorf was a better basketball player than Gerry. But I just don't see how anyone could say he isn't a legend.

But I 100% agree that Hak is a legend. Most important defensive play in the history of Syracuse basketball. That's legendary.
 
Another argument in favor of GMac being the most legendary player in SU history: they had a freaking children's choir on the court at his Senior Day singing a song about him.

I think the only player that rivals GMac in legend-status is Pearl, but Pearl never really won anything of note.
 
As Eric15 said there is more that goes into legends than just stats. GMac has all of that regardless of his stats and his stats were not that bad either.
 
Lets get a couple of things clear:

1. To be a legend, you have to be a great player. I could care less about popularity; that is meaningless.
2. Pearl was probably the most single dominant player in Boeheim's era. He would take on a team by himself, and in more cases than not, he came out on the winning side. He did not have a great team alongside him, so I'm not sure winning anything of note is a fair criticism. He single-handedly put SU on the map as a national program The only player who I have ever seen who was as dominant was Carmelo. And I'd still take Pearl.
3. We win the national championship because of Carmelo being on the 2003 team. If no Melo, then no national title GMac may have a national title, but that has more to do with Carmelo than anything else. He had those 3s in the first half of the national title game and that was tremendous, but vanished in the second half. We win that game more because of Pace and Edelin in the second half than anything else.
4. GMac is arguably a legend; I do not agree that it is not debatable and I do not think it was that clear cut. He is in the discussion. The fact is that after Warrick and Carmelo left, and it became GMac's team, we became pretty ordinary, struggled to get into the tournament and did nothing in the tournament. A caveat is that I never believed the Big East Tournament to be much more than a show, and I would rather take a long run in the NCAAs than do anything in the conference tournament (although there is always something special about beating Georgetown)
5. As for the greatest individual performance in an NCAA game by Syracuse. Has anyone watched Carmelo's performance against Texas in the Final Four???
6. For all of GMac's heroics in the BET, I have NEVER seen a more dominant SU performer in the BET Tournament than Pearl. He was out of this world against the best of the best. (Ewing, Berry, etc.)
 
Lets get a couple of things clear:

1. To be a legend, you have to be a great player. I could care less about popularity; that is meaningless.
I agree you have to be a great player, but I can't disagree more about popularity. Popularity is a massive factor in creating the legend.
 
Lets get a couple of things clear:

1. To be a legend, you have to be a great player. I could care less about popularity; that is meaningless.
2. Pearl was probably the most single dominant player in Boeheim's era. He would take on a team by himself, and in more cases than not, he came out on the winning side. He did not have a great team alongside him, so I'm not sure winning anything of note is a fair criticism. He single-handedly put SU on the map as a national program The only player who I have ever seen who was as dominant was Carmelo. And I'd still take Pearl.
3. We win the national championship because of Carmelo being on the 2003 team. If no Melo, then no national title GMac may have a national title, but that has more to do with Carmelo than anything else. He had those 3s in the first half of the national title game and that was tremendous, but vanished in the second half. We win that game more because of Pace and Edelin in the second half than anything else.
4. GMac is arguably a legend; I do not agree that it is not debatable and I do not think it was that clear cut. He is in the discussion. The fact is that after Warrick and Carmelo left, and it became GMac's team, we became pretty ordinary, struggled to get into the tournament and did nothing in the tournament. A caveat is that I never believed the Big East Tournament to be much more than a show, and I would rather take a long run in the NCAAs than do anything in the conference tournament (although there is always something special about beating Georgetown)
5. As for the greatest individual performance in an NCAA game by Syracuse. Has anyone watched Carmelo's performance against Texas in the Final Four???
6. For all of GMac's heroics in the BET, I have NEVER seen a more dominant SU performer in the BET Tournament than Pearl. He was out of this world against the best of the best. (Ewing, Berry, etc.)
I feel like someone, anyone, should use the line Joe Pesci did in My cousin Vinnie. everything that guy just said is B###. Pearl played with Rony and raf, to name just a couple. He wasn't playing without talent. I loved Pearl but to say that G-mac is argubly a legend is off base, he had 6 3's in the title game but to say Pace and Edelin won us the game is ridiculous. Without those 6 3's, we lose. Bad. And Gerry won us a Big East tournament, pearl didn't. Gerry hit the shot that Pearl didn't make against St John's. Pearl put us on the map. But Gerry accomplished more at syracuse. And the 43 pts against BYU was amazing. Gerry is also the 4th leading scorer in Syracuse history. He averaged the same pts a game as Pearl did for his career.
 
Lets get a couple of things clear:

1. To be a legend, you have to be a great player. I could care less about popularity; that is meaningless.
2. Pearl was probably the most single dominant player in Boeheim's era. He would take on a team by himself, and in more cases than not, he came out on the winning side. He did not have a great team alongside him, so I'm not sure winning anything of note is a fair criticism. He single-handedly put SU on the map as a national program The only player who I have ever seen who was as dominant was Carmelo. And I'd still take Pearl.
3. We win the national championship because of Carmelo being on the 2003 team. If no Melo, then no national title GMac may have a national title, but that has more to do with Carmelo than anything else. He had those 3s in the first half of the national title game and that was tremendous, but vanished in the second half. We win that game more because of Pace and Edelin in the second half than anything else.
4. GMac is arguably a legend; I do not agree that it is not debatable and I do not think it was that clear cut. He is in the discussion. The fact is that after Warrick and Carmelo left, and it became GMac's team, we became pretty ordinary, struggled to get into the tournament and did nothing in the tournament. A caveat is that I never believed the Big East Tournament to be much more than a show, and I would rather take a long run in the NCAAs than do anything in the conference tournament (although there is always something special about beating Georgetown)
5. As for the greatest individual performance in an NCAA game by Syracuse. Has anyone watched Carmelo's performance against Texas in the Final Four???
6. For all of GMac's heroics in the BET, I have NEVER seen a more dominant SU performer in the BET Tournament than Pearl. He was out of this world against the best of the best. (Ewing, Berry, etc.)

So it's OK that Pearl never won anything because of a lack of surrounding talent, but you hold that against McNamara?

Eta, it's could NOT care less. "I could care less about popularity" makes no sense in the context of the idea you're trying to convey.
 
stone567 said:
Lets get a couple of things clear: 1. To be a legend, you have to be a great player. I could care less about popularity; that is meaningless. 2. Pearl was probably the most single dominant player in Boeheim's era. He would take on a team by himself, and in more cases than not, he came out on the winning side. He did not have a great team alongside him, so I'm not sure winning anything of note is a fair criticism. He single-handedly put SU on the map as a national program The only player who I have ever seen who was as dominant was Carmelo. And I'd still take Pearl. 3. We win the national championship because of Carmelo being on the 2003 team. If no Melo, then no national title GMac may have a national title, but that has more to do with Carmelo than anything else. He had those 3s in the first half of the national title game and that was tremendous, but vanished in the second half. We win that game more because of Pace and Edelin in the second half than anything else. 4. GMac is arguably a legend; I do not agree that it is not debatable and I do not think it was that clear cut. He is in the discussion. The fact is that after Warrick and Carmelo left, and it became GMac's team, we became pretty ordinary, struggled to get into the tournament and did nothing in the tournament. A caveat is that I never believed the Big East Tournament to be much more than a show, and I would rather take a long run in the NCAAs than do anything in the conference tournament (although there is always something special about beating Georgetown) 5. As for the greatest individual performance in an NCAA game by Syracuse. Has anyone watched Carmelo's performance against Texas in the Final Four??? 6. For all of GMac's heroics in the BET, I have NEVER seen a more dominant SU performer in the BET Tournament than Pearl. He was out of this world against the best of the best. (Ewing, Berry, etc.)

Buy a dictionary. Look up the definition of legend.

Then come back and try to argue popularity doesn't matter.
Wait, let me save you the trouble.

************
an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field.
"the man was a living legend"
synonyms: celebrity, star, superstar, icon, phenomenon, luminary, leading light, giant; More
*********

You know what I don't see in that definition. "Accomplished". Therefore, wins is not a factor.
 

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