What do you think are the 3 things that most negatively affected SU football in the last 25 years

[SkyTopBus44]

Those hundreds of delay of game calls on our offense would disagree with you.

They were especially great coming off a TV or official timeout

 

[IthacaMatt]

They were especially great coming off a TV or official timeout

And continuing with George as a play-caller, let's just say he was no Kevin Rogers.
George was still in love with the unbalanced line, short-side toss and TE throwback.
Sure, those plays worked sometimes, but Syracuse has been doing that stuff since Old Ben.
I saw half of DeLeone's offense on old tapes of Schwartzwalder teams from the mid-60s.

Kevin Rogers, on the other hand, put big numbers on the board a few times when he had McNabb. I remember laying 70 points on Rutgers one season. DeLeone was 4 yards and a cloud of dust. I give him credit, we had 1,000 yard rushers damn near every single season that he was a coach here.

But just like with Ben and that old-fashioned running game, football was changing again (because of rules changes) which made both Ben's and George's offenses obsolete.

 

[KaiserUEO]

1. No Vick
2. No ACC
3. Fan entitlement and apathy
4. Grobbycakes

 

[IthacaMatt]

1. No Vick
2. No ACC
3. Fan entitlement and apathy
4. Grobbycakes

No Buzz Shaw?

 

[Chip]

All the best answers are in the thread, just not grouped in the way I think were most impactful.

1) Vick. I truly believe we make a top 5/national title run with him in 2000 if he came to SU. Our defenses from 199-2001 were loaded. Vick would have made the O lethal. Despite the other institutional issues, we would have been teed up for a much better 2000s if Vick played at SU.

2) Shaw’s financial neglect. Sucking money out of the athletic department and pumping into our university operations was shameful. At a time when all of our regional rivals were gearing up for the arms race, SU fiddled while it’s facilities burned. Total malfeasance by the administration.

3) Rutgers loss 2003 and Temple loss, 2004. We don’t have a GumpRob era if P wins these two lay ups. The 2004 one is particularly awful, since we’d have gotten a BCS payday. P may have been jettisoned after 2005 or 2006, and Gross may still have made a bad hire, but literally no one could’ve been worse than Robinson, and I think he’s off the table if another year or two passes.

This is a good summary. I’d add on Shaw that Jake and P being good company men didn’t help. Someone needed to speak up and it needed to be one of them. Jake would tell you if you emailed him and asked (as I did), but the drum needed louder banging.

I’d also add replacing Marrone with Shafer to the list. We finally dug out of the GRob hole and then hired another one and fell back in. Gross left to his own devices to pick a coach was a losing proposition.

 

[storange]

1 These threads

 

[Briancuse]

I was at the 2003 Rutgers game. I have Always wondered if Brian Leonard grew up as a Rutgers fan. Maybe someone on the board could remember.

Did anyone grow up a Rutgers fan?

 

[GoSU96]

Vick
Hiring Robinson - compounded a mistake
Old done turf and the associated PR battle

 

[KaiserUEO]

No Buzz Shaw?

He’d be 5.

but the OP asked for 3, I gave 4.

all 5 are interchangeable.

Imagine going say 11-1 or 10-2 this year and no one will be there to see it??!!!

Oh the snowflake entitled bitching...

 

[cto]

Modernizing is a s e xy way of saying "they needed funds". The job of AD morphed in the past 10 plus years of becoming a fundraiser first and foremost. Jake was the HC of Dartmouth football. He wasn't built to fund raise and the school did no favors of funding his athletic dept. Jake wasn't stupid. He knew the world was moving under his feet and decided to step aside. I just wish he could have remained as an advisor. Guy helped build the big east and put Syracuse in position for conference realignment (which we know he wasn't 100% for but understood the $$ implications)

He was a visionary of what Syracuse became. They should build a statue for the sports machine he built in the middle of nowhere. Throughout the 80s/90s/early 2000s the school (private school that is) had the best two way operation in football and basketball. They had the absolute best lax program and they had continuity. The continuity is the secret sauce for sustained results.

The end snuck up on us because the school hired a carnival barker who could lean on people to open their wallets at the mercy of the continuity built.

Jake did not "step aside." He was fired in most ugly fashion by Nancy ... just not as publicly as P was fired on national tv. "Elimunelson" is correct in citing Jake's innumerable (and often unrecognized) contributions while the school's athletic department was held together with chewing gum and bailing wire.

In the university structure at the time, he did not even report to the chancellor. He reported to the chief financial/administrative officer who took every penny he could of athletic department revenues for other purposes within his empire. It was a condition of Gross's accepting SU's job offer that he report directly to Chancellor Cantor. He was immediately given his wish ... even though Jake's many requests for such a reporting relationship were denied because he did not have the leverage of someone she wanted to hire.

No one did more for SU athletics ... or was treated more badly ... than Jake Crouthamel.

 

[MikeSU02]

If Vick comes, there is no doubt in my mind that we are in title contention his two years playing. I think that fundamentally changes the course of SU football. The a ability for more investment, attracting another generation of fans, and helping land even better recruits.

I know that's a lot of change to attribute to one player, but one player can absolutely change a destiny of a college sports team.

There were a host of other issues, but winning solves a lot of things.

 

[Scooch]

Jake did not "step aside." He was fired in most ugly fashion by Nancy ... just not as publicly as P was fired on national tv. "Elimunelson" is correct in citing Jake's innumerable (and often unrecognized) contributions while the school's athletic department was held together with chewing gum and bailing wire.

In the university structure at the time, he did not even report to the chancellor. He reported to the chief financial/administrative officer who took every penny he could of athletic department revenues for other purposes within his empire. It was a condition of Gross's accepting SU's job offer that he report directly to Chancellor Cantor. He was immediately given his wish ... even though Jake's many requests for such a reporting relationship were denied because he did not have the leverage of someone she wanted to hire.

No one did more for SU athletics ... or was treated more badly ... than Jake Crouthamel.

Thank you for the really illuminating post. It’s difficult to judge a Chancellor in the midst of their tenure. We often need time to pass to see how they really performed. I feel pretty confident in saying that Cantor was awful for SU, academically and athletically.

 

[Nick44]

If Vick comes, there is no doubt in my mind that we are in title contention his two years playing. I think that fundamentally changes the course of SU football. The a ability for more investment, attracting another generation of fans, and helping land even better recruits.

I know that's a lot of change to attribute to one player, but one player can absolutely change a destiny of a college sports team.

There were a host of other issues, but winning solves a lot of things.

Ehh. No doubt the 2 years he played would’ve been special. Having Vick and Freeney anchor each unit along with an excellent special teams would’ve been memorable.

However, he would’ve left after 2000, we then would’ve pegged Cecil Howard to take over, that wouldn’t have worked and we would be back to Nunes/RJ. Then, the inexplicable lack of investment into the program would’ve shown again and we would’ve been back to what we are accustomed too.

 

[elimunelson]

Jake did not "step aside." He was fired in most ugly fashion by Nancy ... just not as publicly as P was fired on national tv. "Elimunelson" is correct in citing Jake's innumerable (and often unrecognized) contributions while the school's athletic department was held together with chewing gum and bailing wire.

In the university structure at the time, he did not even report to the chancellor. He reported to the chief financial/administrative officer who took every penny he could of athletic department revenues for other purposes within his empire. It was a condition of Gross's accepting SU's job offer that he report directly to Chancellor Cantor. He was immediately given his wish ... even though Jake's many requests for such a reporting relationship were denied because he did not have the leverage of someone she wanted to hire.

No one did more for SU athletics ... or was treated more badly ... than Jake Crouthamel.

I had my battles with Jake and i've detailed them a few times on here but there is NO ONE at Syracuse I respected more than him. I don't think people can truly understand the influence he had on making Syracuse an athletic powerhouse in the middle of CNY.

I'm glad CTO explained this. Crouthamel leaving, Pasqualoni leaving were massive transitions the school made. In separate universes they would have been more seemless. Someone can correct me but i think Paul was elected to some role as head of the college coaches association RIGHT BEFORE he was axed. The man was respected. We were laughed at when the replacement fell on his face. ESPN Game Day did a whole segment on it and Corso was aghast at how badly the school treated Paul.

 

[tipphill]

Jake had a laundry list of facilities improvements that he wanted to make, but didn't have the money in the budget, and Buzz wouldn't open up the checkbook for him. Jake's hands were tied.

It was university policy back then that any money SU generated from bowl games and NCAA Tournaments went into the General Fund, instead of staying with the Athletic Dept. We had a great bowl run from 1987-98, but none of that money was reinvested into the AD. Once again, not Jake's call.

i have to ask what was jakes call? i do not mean that in any disrespectful way

 

[cto]

i have to ask what was jakes call? i do not mean that in any disrespectful way

Jake obviously thought the money should have stayed within the athletic department. But it was not his call as to where it would be put.

 

[kirbivore]

Temple kicked our ass in 2004. We were their only FBS win that season.

Walter Washington ran the same play over and over and we couldn't stop him. 29 carries for 185 yards and 3 TD's.

Rhodes' Big Day Not Enough: SU Football Loses, 34-24, at Temple - Syracuse University Athletics

PHILADELPHIA – The Syracuse football team lost, 34-24, to Temple on Saturday, Nov. 13 at Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia, Pa. Junior running back

cuse.com

yeah it was dive over left/right guard all day. OPA then elevated Walter to God like status to protect P.

 

[kirbivore]

We recruited Mike Hart, but he grew up a Michigan fan. Was never happening.

the moron twins told Mike he'd only play DB at Syracuse

 

[kirbivore]

To me the mismanagement of 2005 was criminal. P and D deserved that season no matter how bad the bowl turned out. The rush to fire a guy who moonwalked into 2 fiestas a gator and an orange in the 90s deserved that final season. The recruiting has never been as good as it was for that period even with flinstone facilities. We still were Syracuse and still a force in the north east. It wasn’t lost on people how callous the transition was handled w p.

Keeping him for one more year was not a good option. Can't have a lame duck coach in college sports. A kid with options would be insane to commit to that situation. The choice was either extend of fire. If fire was the choice it should have been done at the end of the regular season. It was done way to late in the cycle which is why they got stuck with Gerg.

 

[nzm136]

1. GRob
2. Facilities investments
3. Increased emphasis on the game in the southeast vs the rest of the country / population shifts

I would say missing the ACC, but our peers did fine, and I think a soft BE was an opportunity. Imagine had we been able to field Babers teams then. 4-8 in the ACC would have been 8-4 in the BIG EAST.

I would say Vick, but with good (or even average) facilities, coaching, and population demographics, we could have found someone good enough. Even as was, Perry Patterson was a 4* (I think), Ray Rice *almost* came, and Colt Brennan tried to come. We could still get talent. Vick was special, sure, but Ray Rice and Colt Brennan and a couple more good names would have offset enough of the Vick loss to get by.

I would say Nancy/Gross, but every sport but football flourished, and good facilities, favorable demographics, and good coaching would have gone a long way towards making football competitive, which would have done wonders for our athletic department.

“Get a life” might be my #4, and marrone not toughing it out for another 3-4 years was a gut punch, too. I think his recruiting would have upticked, and marrone + talent = wins, which is what we needed to restore the name post GRob. It would have made him look like an anomaly instead of the rule.

 

[baggerbob]

1. Buzz @ Nancy
2. Nancy@ Buzz
3. Mac leaving for New England
.

 

[OrangePA]

Jake's sin was his parting shots, calling this a "one horse town" and telling the fans to get a life. That destroyed any goodwill there might have been for Robinson, who was a charming man, he even recruited a handful of good players, but he could not run a program to save his life. Fans still aren't all the way "back" in terms of attendance from those insults on his way out the door.

I don’t think that’s right.

Jake left very quietly.

 

[GoSU96]

Those hundreds of delay of game calls on our offense would disagree with you.

Hundreds? Adios with that bs

 

[the villager]

Money,mothers,fathers,fandom,bagmen,brothers,bad coaches and administration all reasons we didn’t get good players. Programs need good players . Just think where this program would be without Eric Dungey.

 

[Bayside44]

I don’t think that’s right.

Jake left very quietly.

Those quotes were Buzz, not Jake.