What if Charley turns out to be good? | Syracusefan.com

What if Charley turns out to be good?

SUFaninNJ

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Honestly, I have never allowed myself the opportunity to think this before. I've always looked ahead to think who we'll have running the show after this year. Either that or who was going to beat out Charley for the fall. He has knowledge of the offense. He has a strong running game. He has a good frame. He's dreamy. Unfortunately he doesn't have any real experience. If he gets the nod, Hickey can stay at RT. If Quinta steps into a starting role and one of the frosh WRs can be solid, why not Charley? I think Hunt would be a bit more exciting, but perhaps Loeb brings that Nassib workman like quality with him. Who knows? I can't wait for Spring Ball.
 
I'll say this much... I'm really glad we have a dedicated QB coach this spring, whoever the qb turns out to be...
 
I expect Charley to be good. But familiarity with the offense is getting to be a little over rated by some since we have a mostly new offensive staff including the coordinator, QB coach, RB and line coach. Its one thing to say we are going to run the same type of offense or same scheme. But I do not believe we will be running the exact same offense including play calls, sets, line calls etc. We might but it is doubtful and no reason to expect otherwise. Charley will have a lot to learn also. If he wins the job, great. Hopefully he'll produce like some other 5th year starters we have had in the past like Kevin Mason and Todd Philcox. We should be so lucky. When the AD says we're keeping the same offense that does not mean we are "keeping the EXACT same offense". It means we are not going to turn into an option team.
 
Then he'll be a really good backup for Slashton.
Was recently told Ashton will "definitely not" be a quarterback here. Hate to burst your bubble but when you can't figure out basic scheme as a RB you aren't playing QB.
 
Honestly, I have never allowed myself the opportunity to think this before. I've always looked ahead to think who we'll have running the show after this year. Either that or who was going to beat out Charley for the fall. He has knowledge of the offense. He has a strong running game. He has a good frame. He's dreamy. Unfortunately he doesn't have any real experience. If he gets the nod, Hickey can stay at RT. If Quinta steps into a starting role and one of the frosh WRs can be solid, why not Charley? I think Hunt would be a bit more exciting, but perhaps Loeb brings that Nassib workman like quality with him. Who knows? I can't wait for Spring Ball.
Charley should be a very good game manager and the fact the staff felt comfortable having him throw a pass when Nassib left the game in the Pinstripe Bowl says a lot. He was going to start next season if Marrone had stayed, and I still think he'll be the odds-on favorite to take the job in the Spring. I think the battle will be mainly between Loeb and Hunt and a little bit of Kinder. Wilson/Kimble (or other QB) will both redshirt.
 
Charley should be a very good game manager and the fact the staff felt comfortable having him throw a pass when Nassib left the game in the Pinstripe Bowl says a lot. He was going to start next season if Marrone had stayed, and I still think he'll be the odds-on favorite to take the job in the Spring. I think the battle will be mainly between Loeb and Hunt and a little bit of Kinder. Wilson/Kimble (or other QB) will both redshirt.

Looks aside (because there is no equal obviously), isn't Loeb a better/faster runner than Nassib? Enough so to notice in a spread option look?
 
Looks aside (because there is no equal obviously), isn't Loeb a better/faster runner than Nassib? Enough so to notice in a spread option look?

Yes, straight line speed, he is fast, with his frame I don't know how shifty he will be and he will also take some big hits.. Women will be in tears if he gets hit like Nassib did in the pinstripe bowl... Millhouse will need therapy if Charlie takes a hit like that, he may never be the same.. We better have a hairdresser on staff.. Is that dude next to Chuck's still there? Use to go down there for a haircut and if there was a wait I use to go to Faeagan's and comeback, and most times i didn't comeback.. My hair was pretty long for a reason
 
Looks aside (because there is no equal obviously), isn't Loeb a better/faster runner than Nassib? Enough so to notice in a spread option look?
I don't think it would be too noticeable to be honest but I've never seen Loeb in a game at full speed so it would be irresponsible for me to comment. I really do think Chuck could lead us to a respectable bowl next season.

But is it worth it to see if we have a QB for longer than a season in Hunt/Kinder? Growing pains might be worth it down the road. That's what this staff will have to figure out, and why Allen coming in and redshirting could have put us in a great situation.
 
Honestly, I have never allowed myself the opportunity to think this before. I've always looked ahead to think who we'll have running the show after this year. Either that or who was going to beat out Charley for the fall. He has knowledge of the offense. He has a strong running game. He has a good frame. He's dreamy. Unfortunately he doesn't have any real experience. If he gets the nod, Hickey can stay at RT. If Quinta steps into a starting role and one of the frosh WRs can be solid, why not Charley? I think Hunt would be a bit more exciting, but perhaps Loeb brings that Nassib workman like quality with him. Who knows? I can't wait for Spring Ball.
I agree about almost everything here exceptthe "dreamy" part. If I ever had an icky dream about him I might have end this thing here and now.As I recall, Charlie won some QB competition in the prior off seaon.I think he had some high level competitors involved . Again its what I recall which we all know is not quite on the speed re-dial button for me.:confused:
 
I think if Loeb gets the nod he'll end up being better than Paulus. Probably lower completion %, but less picks and more rushing yards.
 
I don't think it would be too noticeable to be honest but I've never seen Loeb in a game at full speed so it would be irresponsible for me to comment. I really do think Chuck could lead us to a respectable bowl next season.

But is it worth it to see if we have a QB for longer than a season in Hunt/Kinder? Growing pains might be worth it down the road. That's what this staff will have to figure out, and why Allen coming in and redshirting could have put us in a great situation.

bnoro, which former SU QB would you compare Loeb most like?
 
I've consistently said I have no problem with Loeb under center this fall. Unfortunately (for Loeb evaluation reasons only) Nassib was an incredibly durable quarterback so we don't have any game situation experience to go off of. All we have is what was written during spring and fall practice sessions and word of mouth. He seems to have all the tools and is arguably our best running quarterback. I feel very comfortable with Loeb if he wins the starting position.
 
If charlie is good...That could quite possibly mean that he will make accurate throws, correct reads, and scramble when pressured. My biggest concern right now is how well will he be protected? The biggest reason for our offensiv3 success this season was the oline.
 
Honestly, I have never allowed myself the opportunity to think this before. I've always looked ahead to think who we'll have running the show after this year. Either that or who was going to beat out Charley for the fall. He has knowledge of the offense. He has a strong running game. He has a good frame. He's dreamy. Unfortunately he doesn't have any real experience. If he gets the nod, Hickey can stay at RT. If Quinta steps into a starting role and one of the frosh WRs can be solid, why not Charley? I think Hunt would be a bit more exciting, but perhaps Loeb brings that Nassib workman like quality with him. Who knows? I can't wait for Spring Ball.
There are worse problems than that I suppose.

I think Charley caught a bad break when DM and NH left because his biggest advantage over the other QBs was more familiarity with the system Syracuse was using on offense.

A big question about the new offense is whether McDonald is going to use the existing playbook and nomenclature, basically keep everything the same, and make the coaching staff have to make adjustments to a new offense instead of the players. Or is he going to install his offense, which will have a lot of similarities with th DM/NH offense, but also a lot of differences, and a completely different nomenclature. By nomenclature, I am referring to the names for the formations, plays, audibles, etc.

If he makes the players make the adjustments to his system, Loeb's advantage is diminished pretty significantly. I think this is going to happen. I don't blame McDonald if he does this. It is his neck on the line, and I am sure he would be much more comfortable using the terminology and approach he has used in the past.

Based on the QBs the new staff is going after so far, they might put more of a premium on ability of a QB to run with the football. I haven't seen a QB who runs like Nassib does or throws with an arm as strong as Ryan's. That might mean that the changes are going to help Broyld and Hunt more than Loeb and Kinder (and eventually Wilson), but Loeb and Kinder are also noticably more mobile than Ryan was/is.

I thought Ashton's play during his frosh season, limited as it was, was remarkable in a couple of ways. He showed me great athletic ability; the kid has a way of doing remarkable things almost every time he touches the ball. And he showed me a disturbing trend of making mental mistakes, blowing assignments, missing blocks, going in the wrong direction, not protecting the ball, etc.

You can't have your QB do those kinds of things. If Ashton is to play there, he is going to need to make vast strides in the mental part of the game to be successful.

Here are my impressions of Kinder and Loeb based on the limited times I have seen both play in drills and scrimmages.

Kinder made a strong run last year to take the backup position away from Charley. He has a way of making plays, is fearless in the pocket, and I think he is probably the most accurate passer on the roster now that Ryan is gone. He can make all the plays. Is agile, can make people miss but lacks the speed to be a real threat running the football (he is something between Ryan and Charley here).

His problem is that he has been plagued by making a horrendous decision time and time again. He will run a drive perfectly 70 yards down the field, and in the red zone, throw the ball under pressure directly into double coverage and get intercepted. That sort of thing. He is close to being a very solid QB.

From what I have seen from Charley so far in his career, he can make all the throws, and throws the best deep ball of any QB we have had over the past few years. He has prototype size, prototype thowing form and runs really well, though he is really reluctant to use his athletic ability and make something positive on a broken play.

The issues with Charley are, as far as I can tell:

1) while he can zip a pass into a tight spot with the best of them, he really likes to throw high lob passes, and sometimes throws a lob when a hard throw is required.

2) his accuracy can be a problem at times

3) he has a slow trigger. Does not get rid of the ball quickly, sometimes takes too long to make a decision. A good QB needs a clock in their head to tell him how much time they have to allow the play to develop before they sense the rush and go to plan B.

I really haven't seen Hunt play at all yet so I will not comment on him yet. Hoping spring practices are open this year.
 
There are worse problems than that I suppose.

I think Charley caught a bad break when DM and NH left because his biggest advantage over the other QBs was more familiarity with the system Syracuse was using on offense.

A big question about the new offense is whether McDonald is going to use the existing playbook and nomenclature, basically keep everything the same, and make the coaching staff have to make adjustments to a new offense instead of the players. Or is he going to install his offense, which will have a lot of similarities with th DM/NH offense, but also a lot of differences, and a completely different nomenclature. By nomenclature, I am referring to the names for the formations, plays, audibles, etc.

If he makes the players make the adjustments to his system, Loeb's advantage is diminished pretty significantly. I think this is going to happen. I don't blame McDonald if he does this. It is his neck on the line, and I am sure he would be much more comfortable using the terminology and approach he has used in the past.

Based on the QBs the new staff is going after so far, they might put more of a premium on ability of a QB to run with the football. I haven't seen a QB who runs like Nassib does or throws with an arm as strong as Ryan's. That might mean that the changes are going to help Broyld and Hunt more than Loeb and Kinder (and eventually Wilson), but Loeb and Kinder are also noticably more mobile than Ryan was/is.

I thought Ashton's play during his frosh season, limited as it was, was remarkable in a couple of ways. He showed me great athletic ability; the kid has a way of doing remarkable things almost every time he touches the ball. And he showed me a disturbing trend of making mental mistakes, blowing assignments, missing blocks, going in the wrong direction, not protecting the ball, etc.

You can't have your QB do those kinds of things. If Ashton is to play there, he is going to need to make vast strides in the mental part of the game to be successful.

Here are my impressions of Kinder and Loeb based on the limited times I have seen both play in drills and scrimmages.

Kinder made a strong run last year to take the backup position away from Charley. He has a way of making plays, is fearless in the pocket, and I think he is probably the most accurate passer on the roster now that Ryan is gone. He can make all the plays. Is agile, can make people miss but lacks the speed to be a real threat running the football (he is something between Ryan and Charley here).

His problem is that he has been plagued by making a horrendous decision time and time again. He will run a drive perfectly 70 yards down the field, and in the red zone, throw the ball under pressure directly into double coverage and get intercepted. That sort of thing. He is close to being a very solid QB.

From what I have seen from Charley so far in his career, he can make all the throws, and throws the best deep ball of any QB we have had over the past few years. He has prototype size, prototype thowing form and runs really well, though he is really reluctant to use his athletic ability and make something positive on a broken play.

The issues with Charley are, as far as I can tell:

1) while he can zip a pass into a tight spot with the best of them, he really likes to throw high lob passes, and sometimes throws a lob when a hard throw is required.

2) his accuracy can be a problem at times

3) he has a slow trigger. Does not get rid of the ball quickly, sometimes takes too long to make a decision. A good QB needs a clock in their head to tell him how much time they have to allow the play to develop before they sense the rush and go to plan B.

I really haven't seen Hunt play at all yet so I will not comment on him yet. Hoping spring practices are open this year.


Good analysis, as usual.

I would add that new O, especially because of the no huddle, put a premium on the QB reading the D at pre snap, adjusting protection, knowing what the progression reads will be/where the ball should go, making decisions, and accurately getting the ball off in time. McDonald has promised to be fast and uptempo, which suggests the no huddle. I also strongly suspect that we will spread the field and run the ball.

Whoever plays QB, they will need to be good at all the above. We have very limited "data" to know if that guy is even on the roster. But, I highly doubt it will be Kinder or AB b/c of the above.
 
Charlie will start. He is the most prepared and throws the best ball. If not Charlie i think that Hunt gets the nod. I would not be surprised to see the staff bring in a juco next year. Last thought is that the kid from TX messed up. He would have had two great coaches to work with and by all accounts was in line to start this year or next. Looks like a long way to the top at tcu for him. Timing is everything.
 
Todd Philcox is probably a good comparison for Charlie Loeb as he enters his Sr year.
 
Todd Philcox is probablyva good comparison for Charlie Loeb as he enters his Sr year.

Let's hope.

Philox ended up being pretty damn good.
 

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