What is frustrating about The football program

[OrangeDW]

You know, I hear this from posters all the time. Why is it so hard? Because of a little snow? As I have said many times, it snows in Michigan, at Ped State, at Notre Dame, at BC. Because academic standards are high? They are high at BC, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. You know, this excuse is BS.

You mentioned BC…do they recruit well?

Notre Dame is it’s own thing.

Penn State and Michigan - massive state schools with 100,000 fans at games and Big Ten money.

 

[Bayside44]

You know, I hear this from posters all the time. Why is it so hard? Because of a little snow? As I have said many times, it snows in Michigan, at Ped State, at Notre Dame, at BC. Because academic standards are high? They are high at BC, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. You know, this excuse is BS.

Half this board is up in arms about not getting a kid who is about an 11 hour drive away.

Every recruit minus a few is on someone else’s turf. Just is what it is.

 

[SoBristol]

I don't think that is true at all. We lose Bergeron, Tucker, G. Williams all to the NFL. Mikel likely going too. Even if we're not counting them as they are going to the next level and not another school, we lose Deuce and Ja'had. The guys we've brought in should outweigh those losses, but that is TBD. Saying we've added significantly more talent than we've lost is just not factual. Then throw in the Sellers and VCJ decommits and it gets even worse. The group of 1st year players we're bringing in is 1 of the lower rated groups we've had in quite a while. I love this team and this program, but I'm very concerned about the future.

I can’t disagree about the talent we lose - those 6 are some of the best our program has had. But we get Thompson, Lockett and Isiah Jones back from injury - guys that went out early in the season. The DL was playing too many young kids who were 240 or 250 - we will be significantly bigger and more experienced in that unit. Have to see about the OL, but we return Shrader and Gadsden - two leaders for the offense

Of course, high school recruiting is not where it needs to be. I think we can compete in 2023. Longer term it is going to be a slog unless we make up with transfers for the weak basic recruiting. It has been the main challenge for 20 years.

 

[tep624]

Ranked in the CFP last month, bowling next week, and three players going to the NFL draft in April. Nothing to be frustrated about right now.

Well losing 5 of 6 to close the season out is something to be frustrated about, to be fair.

 

[rocklloyd]

Winning solves everything

 

[money3189]

You know, I hear this from posters all the time. Why is it so hard? Because of a little snow? As I have said many times, it snows in Michigan, at Ped State, at Notre Dame, at BC. Because academic standards are high? They are high at BC, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. You know, this excuse is BS.

You hear it from posters all the time because its true. Also, lack of success contributes to our recruiting struggles. BC has gone to 18 bowl games in the last 24 years. That consistency is exactly what we want and they still struggle recruiting despite having a HC who is a great recruiter and has a private school pipeline.

 

[money3189]

I can’t disagree about the talent we lose - those 6 are some of the best our program has had. But we get Thompson, Lockett and Isiah Jones back from injury - guys that went out early in the season. The DL was playing too many young kids who were 240 or 250 - we will be significantly bigger and more experienced in that unit. Have to see about the OL, but we return Shrader and Gadsden - two leaders for the offense

Of course, high school recruiting is not where it needs to be. I think we can compete in 2023. Longer term it is going to be a slog unless we make up with transfers for the weak basic recruiting. It has been the main challenge for 20 years.

We can be less talented but be a 7-8 win team next year as well. Both are true.

 

[Doc5120]

I can’t disagree about the talent we lose - those 6 are some of the best our program has had. But we get Thompson, Lockett and Isiah Jones back from injury - guys that went out early in the season. The DL was playing too many young kids who were 240 or 250 - we will be significantly bigger and more experienced in that unit. Have to see about the OL, but we return Shrader and Gadsden - two leaders for the offense

Of course, high school recruiting is not where it needs to be. I think we can compete in 2023. Longer term it is going to be a slog unless we make up with transfers for the weak basic recruiting. It has been the main challenge for 20 years.

I agree with everything you say here.

 

[SUMJF]

Someone else said this but when Dino came in and had that close your eyes press conference we were promised an exciting offense.
I don’t get how by year 8 he has become of one of the most conservative coaches in the nation. He would go for it a lot and promised an exciting offense. He hasn’t recruited one QB who has done what he promised. Dungey was inherited and DeVito and Shrader are good QBs but not what Dino promised.
He lost his best coordinator who gutted our recruiting which is part of the game but it happened.(Note for this I want absolutely no part of Tony White as a HC candidate whenever Dino retires or resigns) and now our roster is in flux.

Plus our offense didn’t add any playmakers yet to help Gadsden. We need multiple WRs not just one. Dino’s System should be able to attract WRs. We really need to mine the Grad transfer or transfer market and add another WR.

I am not worried about RBs we can find guys to produce in college as long as we have guys with speed. The OL is all about injuries and that is luck.

Dino just needs to produce offenses he said he would. College football favors offense. I don’t want to feel like if we get a penalty on a drive that we can’t continue the drive. We are stuck in 3rd gear and when we try to move into 5th gear it feels like the car will blow up.

This past year atleast we look competent outside of the Pitt game. It stinks watching programs below us look more disciplined, and have better player development.

 

[CU44SE]

The issue as someone else alluded to. Isn’t that we are not out recruiting sec and Big 10 schools. The issue is that we are being out recruited by G5 schools. And I understand that there location absolutely helps them. Syracuse and its recruiting pipeline is at an unbelievably massive disadvantage to other P5 schools.

The fact we don’t look harder at some of the players that commit to the G5 schools I think would be a possible avenue to go. But it makes it hard that we don’t have those built in relationships. May be hard to get in. But I could absolutely see some kids flipping from those G5 schools if a little money was offered or a P5 program was offered. Those are the battles we need to win 85% or the time. Or try to win.

 

[Stern]

I mean, sure? NIL is only a year and a half old and is still evolving. There's nothing definitive about it yet - what works best, the best way to approach it, who to reward.

NIL is going nowhere. This is literally a problem you can throw money at and fix. Recruiting is now down to a very basic level...$$$$. Buy the best players you can.

Nothing else matters. Even playing field for every school.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Someone else said this but when Dino came in and had that close your eyes press conference we were promised an exciting offense.
I don’t get how by year 8 he has become of one of the most conservative coaches in the nation. He would go for it a lot and promised an exciting offense. He hasn’t recruited one QB who has done what he promised. Dungey was inherited and DeVito and Shrader are good QBs but not what Dino promised.
He lost his best coordinator who gutted our recruiting which is part of the game but it happened.(Note for this I want absolutely no part of Tony White as a HC candidate whenever Dino retires or resigns) and now our roster is in flux.

Plus our offense didn’t add any playmakers yet to help Gadsden. We need multiple WRs not just one. Dino’s System should be able to attract WRs. We really need to mine the Grad transfer or transfer market and add another WR.

I am not worried about RBs we can find guys to produce in college as long as we have guys with speed. The OL is all about injuries and that is luck.

Dino just needs to produce offenses he said he would. College football favors offense. I don’t want to feel like if we get a penalty on a drive that we can’t continue the drive. We are stuck in 3rd gear and when we try to move into 5th gear it feels like the car will blow up.

This past year atleast we look competent outside of the Pitt game. It stinks watching programs below us look more disciplined, and have better player development.

There's plenty to criticize Babers for, and I am not sure how much time he has left here or how much more he can do.

But regarding the offense thing. Once Babers got here, it quickly became evident that they'd never be able to get the team speed needed to run the offense he came in with at an ACC level. Plus, the offense Babers brought in is a bit of a dinosaur now - teams know how to defend it. So he pivoted and moved to something different, which is how we've landed Anae to Beck.

Also, how is the roster in flux? Two starters on defense transferred.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

NIL is going nowhere. This is literally a problem you can throw money at and fix. Recruiting is now down to a very basic level...$$$$. Buy the best players you can.

Nothing else matters. Even playing field for every school.

I feel like you're just using NIL as a buzz word. It's more complex than "something, something, something Weistman."

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You know, I hear this from posters all the time. Why is it so hard? Because of a little snow? As I have said many times, it snows in Michigan, at Ped State, at Notre Dame, at BC. Because academic standards are high? They are high at BC, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. You know, this excuse is BS.

In fact and reputation, it doesn’t snow at those places like it does in Syracuse. The sports media really plays it up, and I am sure other coaches do as well.
Most major colleges give sports coaches a certain amount of “free passes” to get academically unqualified students into the school. (Stanford is the only school that I know applies it’s academic requirements across the board, athlete or not. There may be others.)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Tony White "gutted" our recruiting?

We had one kid flip to Nebraska, a kid who only committed to us a week earlier.

 

[upperdeck]

you have your selector schools
then you have your big name schools
then you have the schools that mostly get kids in their 6-8 hr window
then you have the rest of the p5
then you go down from there.

we are not in the first 2 lists so that puts you down 20-30 teams before you even start looking for kids

then our 6-8 hr window is pretty much limited to almost all kids in the 4hr+ window which means more of them have many options from higher up teams anyway

if our short window had 20 kids a yr and we just got 3-5 we would have 20 on the roster to build with.

Pitt has many more options locally as does BC as does VT as does Virg or Wake

So we are starting in a hole that only winning at a much higher level is going to overcome and no quick fix is gonna do it

A bit more depth and we win 9-10 games this year so the leap is not all that far. the question is can we do it 1-2 times

 

[SUMJF]

you have your selector schools
then you have your big name schools
then you have the schools that mostly get kids in their 6-8 hr window
then you have the rest of the p5
then you go down from there.

we are not in the first 2 lists so that puts you down 20-30 teams before you even start looking for kids

then our 6-8 hr window is pretty much limited to almost all kids in the 4hr+ window which means more of them have many options from higher up teams anyway

if our short window had 20 kids a yr and we just got 3-5 we would have 20 on the roster to build with.

Pitt has many more options locally as does BC as does VT as does Virg or Wake

So we are starting in a hole that only winning at a much higher level is going to overcome and no quick fix is gonna do it

A bit more depth and we win 9-10 games this year so the leap is not all that far. the question is can we do it 1-2 times

Good post. I just wish the football program could get some momentum as our fanbase really wants to support the program. What your wrote here is true though. We just need to get more firepower and I think we can build a defense that can get some turnovers and stops.

8-4 seems like a record we can attain with just better development and a more disciplined team.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This page is sorted penalty yards per game for 2022. There's not a huge correlation between "good" and "fewest penalties."

Good teams can overcome penalties. Bad teams cannot. We will be less talented most of the time. We cannot do much about that. But we can control how many penalties we get. Wake wouldn't have had the success they have had if they had as many penalties as we get since Dino took over.

The past year in ACC play is insane how bad we were. Wake was 1st at 4.4 per game. We had 10.3 per game which was last in the ACC. Next to last was 8 per game. So we had 2.3 more than the 2nd worst team.

2021 we were good and 2020 we were decent. A lot of that had to do with our style of play those years. Prior to that (2016-19) was bad. Can't use the # of plays excuse as Wake is usually one of the best and they have a lot of plays.

 

[OrangeDW]

Good post. I just wish the football program could get some momentum as our fanbase really wants to support the program. What your wrote here is true though. We just need to get more firepower and I think we can build a defense that can get some turnovers and stops.

8-4 seems like a record we can attain with just better development and a more disciplined team.

It’s really the WR position that we need to upgrade. We just were too limited when Gadsden was our only guy that scared anybody.

Early on in Babers tenure we had Etta Tawo, Ishmael, Phillips, and Estime all making plays….I thought we were going to kill it at WR in the Dome, slinging the ball around. Wouldn’t have dreamed that would be the last time we had 4 good WR’s on the field at the same time for the next 7-8 years.

* I’ve given up on the thought of ever having a legit good OL - we’ll be mediocre at best. But still think we can do a lot better at WR.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Good teams can overcome penalties. Bad teams cannot. We will be less talented most of the time. We cannot do much about that. But we can control how many penalties we get. Wake wouldn't have had the success they have had if they had as many penalties as we get since Dino took over.

The past year in ACC play is insane how bad we were. Wake was 1st at 4.4 per game. We had 10.3 per game which was last in the ACC. Next to last was 8 per game. So we had 2.3 more than the 2nd worst team.

2021 we were good and 2020 we were decent. A lot of that had to do with our style of play those years. Prior to that (2016-19) was bad. Can't use the # of plays excuse as Wake is usually one of the best and they have a lot of plays.

Obviously, Syracuse would benefit from fewer penalties.

I'm just arguing that it's not the be all, end all. (See USF, Temple, Navy, Northwestern.)

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't expect our recruiting rankings to ever be good, but I do expect quality players. I think Dino has done a good job of bringing in depth and better size (especially on D). But are we that much different than Shafer's recruiting?

Looking at next year's roster, I think Dino's DBs are clearly better. But where are the WRs? Look at who he had left for him when he took over. Why can't Dino pull in WRs? The rest of the units are pretty similar.

Estime, Philips, Ishmael, Custis

Only Gadsden fits with the 1st three. Custis didn't produce till later so to be fair one of our current guys could match that.

 

[Stern]

I feel like you're just using NIL as a buzz word. It's more complex than "something, something, something Weistman."

It's not a buzzword at all, it has taken over the college game in every college sport. If there was no NIL the transfer portal wouldn't be such a big thing.

NIL is the elephant in the room and some are choosing to ignore it. Yes, players were being paid beforehand, but it was under the table, it was secret, there was a danger attached to it of better not get caught. Now with it being above board, you are seeing kids coming and going non stop. Why, MONEY! It's all about NIL. Just listen to the college athletes, some (most) are very open about it

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It's not a buzzword at all, it has taken over the college game in every college sport. If there was no NIL the transfer portal wouldn't be such a big thing.

NIL is the elephant in the room and some are choosing to ignore it. Yes, players were being paid beforehand, but it was under the table, it was secret, there was a danger attached to it of better not get caught. Now with it being above board, you are seeing kids coming and going non stop. Why, MONEY! It's all about NIL. Just listen to the college athletes, some (most) are very open about it

What's your point? Syracuse needs to be better at NIL? Still not going to put Syracuse on the radar of top players from Georgia, Florida, and Texas.

 

[tep624]

Tony White "gutted" our recruiting?

We had one kid flip to Nebraska, a kid who only committed to us a week earlier.

1 commit and 2-3 recruits. Not sure he gutted it but he definitely didn’t positively impact it.

 

[money3189]

I don't expect our recruiting rankings to ever be good, but I do expect quality players. I think Dino has done a good job of bringing in depth and better size (especially on D). But are we that much different than Shafer's recruiting?

Looking at next year's roster, I think Dino's DBs are clearly better. But where are the WRs? Look at who he had left for him when he took over. Why can't Dino pull in WRs? The rest of the units are pretty similar.

Estime, Philips, Ishmael, Custis

Only Gadsden fits with the 1st three. Custis didn't produce till later so to be fair one of our current guys could match that.

I thought the 2021 class was good. Gadsden has stepped up. Now its time for Hatcher to do the same but those were two of the most impressive wr recruits weve picked up in terms of potential and offer lists.