What must John Wildhack consider as he decides Dino Babers’ fate?

[Cusefan69]

Could not read the article, so not sure what details have been shared. Just a couple thoughts though. There is no way that ADJW has approval authority for what I am guessing is the buyout. Dino is what? $4.2 million a year? My guess would be at a private school like Syracuse that would need minimum sign off from CFO, Chancellor and likely the BoT. So it's plausible that ADJW wants out but someone higher up is saying no.
I would need someone to confirm this because my memory is not what it used to be but I thought I read on here that all ACC payouts do not go to the AD but I again I may not be remembering that correctly. So I don't think we can "draw" from that pool of dollars for an easy grab. Certainly its much easier for the football factories but I am surprised that we could not handle a 1 year buyout. Which makes me again wonder if the issue is with someone higher up I wonder?

 

[elimunelson]

Basically, we have finite resources financially as a program and it's not an easy decision re Dino and how to appropriate the funds we do have.

With that said, the story made the AD and SU look like a joke. If this was leaked by the AD's office, it was a terrible leak because it makes it look like they should be evaluating JW as they evaluate Dino.

You can literally link this article to any coach we may want to have in our pool of candidates to tell them to go elsewhere. Heck, you can do it for the players as well.

This didn't just happen and it's been building for decades, but that article makes it seem like a really nice way of telling fans to get a life bc we're screwed.

You guys calling for Dan Mullin as the option are crazy with all due respect. IF they do fire Dino they aren't going to get a guy who's currently collecting a check from his prior employer and will take 56 cents on the dollar at Syracuse.

No one who has had an SEC/BIG job will come here full stop. They would have to be the most damaged of goods to take the pay cut.

This job will be filled by a D1AA guy who is going from 750k to 2mm and excited about it or a LB coach at Ohio St who is going from 550 to 1.75mm. I'll be flummoxed if it's something else because financially we won't be writing the 5mm per annum check

 

[storange]

I'm in the "results stink, need a change" camp. No one rational is questioning that Dino got an extension and stopped working. I would find that hard to believe.

it's a results oriented business for me.

Yep every coach at every program know that reality. Someone wins and someone loses and the losers eventually lose their jobs. For the football factories it just take fewer losses.

 

[GreekFreak]

The one thing in the article that surprised me was the statement that SU’s athletic department breaks even annually and any funds for a buyout would have to come from donors or SU institutionally. Where is all the ACC money going?

 

[elimunelson]

Could not read the article, so not sure what details have been shared. Just a couple thoughts though. There is no way that ADJW has approval authority for what I am guessing is the buyout. Dino is what? $4.2 million a year? My guess would be at a private school like Syracuse that would need minimum sign off from CFO, Chancellor and likely the BoT. So it's plausible that ADJW wants out but someone higher up is saying no.
I would need someone to confirm this because my memory is not what it used to be but I thought I read on here that all ACC payouts do not go to the AD but I again I may not be remembering that correctly. So I don't think we can "draw" from that pool of dollars for an easy grab. Certainly its much easier for the football factories but I am surprised that we could not handle a 1 year buyout. Which makes me again wonder if the issue is with someone higher up I wonder?

are buyouts paid out in one installment too? i assume it's negotiated as well. The university would have to figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't collapse the operation. Dino i'm sure would be fine with a payout over time in this interest rate environment especially if he can find other employment to double dip it

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Funny thing is back when SU was 4-0 my group had a discussion of why do we do this anymore? The O is unwatchable, Dino is gonna Dino, the Dome sound system and atmosphere is awful, the tailgating scene is dead and depressing. The SU FB experience is a Mickey Mouse operation. That was before the 4 (mostly blowout) Ls.

All of us used to never miss a second of any game. Some of my group didn't watch Purdue live. All of us turned the last 3 games off. I had to talk people into still going to the BC game. If Dino is still HC, I doubt any of us go to Wake. And if Dino is back next year, we will probably only go to 2-3 games if that.

I don't think SU realizes how they are killing off the die hard fanbase. You cannot expect blind loyalty after these last 25 years. SU can't go half assed with the program and then expect us to continually contribute our money. Why would people from Rochester, Albany, NYC, etc go all the way up to Syracuse 6-7 times a year if SU is making the decisions they are? It isn't worth the time or money.

I don't think people will completely cut off their fandom. But they will become casual fans. It has already happened amongst my friends. People who used to read this board and post everyday are no longer here. People who used to pay attention to every game are now saying things like Did we have a game today? or Who are we playing? What date is that game? Those types of fans will grow the longer you keep Dino and the longer it takes to fix this.

End of rant

 

[elimunelson]

The one thing in the article that surprised me was the statement that SU’s athletic department breaks even annually and any funds for a buyout would have to come from donors or SU institutionally. Where is all the ACC money going?

i thought the basketball team ran at a profit too.

 

[tipphill]

That is backwards. If we go 5-7 and Dino is still HC it might be the final nail in the coffin for what little is left of the FB fanbase. People will say that they are done and will not comeback as anything more than a casual fan. We will be Duke and Wake as a fanbase. Attendance is down this year as it is. Keeping him will make that worse. No one is going to invest in NIL while Dino is still here. And the longer he stays the less people will care to buy back in for the future.

the fanbase for football is weak to begin with. many many years of terrible records, failed coaching. the last glimmer of a possible sustainable football program left with marrone. we are smallish city with no state supported backing.
i think it is unfair to expect alums to keep throwing good money after bad, to a program that is a proven disappointment on many levels. i will stop here, short of further pontification

 

[javadoc]

The one thing in the article that surprised me was the statement that SU’s athletic department breaks even annually and any funds for a buyout would have to come from donors or SU institutionally. Where is all the ACC money going?

This this this. Is there anyone here who can walk us through a back-of-the-envelope in approximate numbers?

What is the ACC revenue distribution? How much do we get from ticket sales? What is approximate gross revenue?

How much do we have to shell out to cover schollies across the entire AD?

Where the hell is the money going?

 

[MSOrange]

Could not read the article, so not sure what details have been shared. Just a couple thoughts though. There is no way that ADJW has approval authority for what I am guessing is the buyout. Dino is what? $4.2 million a year? My guess would be at a private school like Syracuse that would need minimum sign off from CFO, Chancellor and likely the BoT. So it's plausible that ADJW wants out but someone higher up is saying no.
I would need someone to confirm this because my memory is not what it used to be but I thought I read on here that all ACC payouts do not go to the AD but I again I may not be remembering that correctly. So I don't think we can "draw" from that pool of dollars for an easy grab. Certainly its much easier for the football factories but I am surprised that we could not handle a 1 year buyout. Which makes me again wonder if the issue is with someone higher up I wonder?

Haven't read the article yet, but any dismissal and buyout payment would need BoT approval at all schools - that's not exclusive to SU.

 

[orangenauburn]

we aren't flush with cash for buy out, new hire or NIL. Donors need to step up.

What's the school doing with their ACC money? What are they doing with money from tickets? From merch? From media contracts?

How can they not have money available - is the school doing what they did in the 80s and 90s and cashing money from the AD to find other projects on campus?

 

[Newhouser]

Funny thing is back when SU was 4-0 my group had a discussion of why do we do this anymore? The O is unwatchable, Dino is gonna Dino, the Dome sound system and atmosphere is awful, the tailgating scene is dead and depressing. The SU FB experience is a Mickey Mouse operation. That was before the 4 (mostly blowout) Ls.

All of us used to never miss a second of any game. Some of my group didn't watch Purdue live. All of us turned the last 3 games off. I had to talk people into still going to the BC game. If Dino is still HC, I doubt any of us go to Wake. And if Dino is back next year, we will probably only go to 2-3 games if that.

I don't think SU realizes how they are killing off the die hard fanbase. You cannot expect blind loyalty after these last 25 years. SU can't go half assed with the program and then expect us to continually contribute our money. Why would people from Rochester, Albany, NYC, etc go all the way up to Syracuse 6-7 times a year if SU is making the decisions they are? It isn't worth the time or money.

I don't think people will completely cut off their fandom. But they will become casual fans. It has already happened amongst my friends. People who used to read this board and post everyday are no longer here. People who used to pay attention to every game are now saying things like Did we have a game today? or Who are we playing? What date is that game? Those types of fans will grow the longer you keep Dino and the longer it takes to fix this.

End of rant

Gotta be honest I'm falling into the casual class. Actually the one thing keeping me in the season ticket pool is the access to parking pass. Last few years there are more than a few times I thought about staying in the parking lot with my crew.

 

[orangenauburn]

Basically, we have finite resources financially as a program and it's not an easy decision re Dino and how to appropriate the funds we do have.

With that said, the story made the AD and SU look like a joke. If this was leaked by the AD's office, it was a terrible leak because it makes it look like they should be evaluating JW as they evaluate Dino.

You can literally link this article to any coach we may want to have in our pool of candidates to tell them to go elsewhere. Heck, you can do it for the players as well.

This didn't just happen and it's been building for decades, but that article makes it seem like a really nice way of telling fans to get a life bc we're screwed.

Yeah. That's the rub here. You're stating in an article you don't have the money to be competitive. Which will be used against you when trying to recruit a new coach or support staff or players or portal kids.

Makes you look inept and not committed.

 

[richmondcuse03]

This this this. Is there anyone here who can walk us through a back-of-the-envelope in approximate numbers?

What is the ACC revenue distribution? How much do we get from ticket sales? What is approximate gross revenue?

How much do we have to shell out to cover schollies across the entire AD?

Where the hell is the money going?

I dont believe the break even statement at all, at least not from a cash flow perspective.

I'm sure there's some accounting going on to get to that statement (paying the university for scholarships at full tuition room and board vs. just the actual cost for the room/board), Dome rental fees, etc.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Yeah. That's the rub here. You're stating in an article you don't have the money to be competitive. Which will be used against you when trying to recruit a new coach or support staff or players or portal kids.

Makes you look inept and not committed.

Which is why I don't think it was spin coming from Wildhack. I suspect it was a former AD person / connected to program.

 

[orangenauburn]

Which is why I don't think it was spin coming from Wildhack. I suspect it was a former AD person / connected to program.

Dinos agent, possibly?

 

[Zepharus]

Cliff Notes Version -

SU = Cheap/Shallow Pockets/Weak NIL

Money is better spent on players vs coaching change. You aren't getting a good coach to come here.


Reality

 

[Scooch]

that athletic dept has some nerve with the amount of discount they got from Jim Boeheim for about 25 years.

I mean what the heck is going on if this is the narrative coming from JW. I'm hoping this is an elaborate belt tightening exercise to squeeze some donors who are dragging their feet but very concerning.

A kind soul let me take a peek at the article.

It reads as if the source was somoene(s) who's intent is to sabotage the SU athletic department for years to come.

 

[rrlbees]

While people are getting upset with the article, one thing that is being missed is that none of it is from SU. It’s 2 coaching industry people speaking in general terms about it. The rest is Carlsons opinion and thoughts.

 

[Cusefan78]

I dont believe the break even statement at all, at least not from a cash flow perspective.

I'm sure there's some accounting going on to get to that statement (paying the university for scholarships at full tuition room and board vs. just the actual cost for the room/board), Dome rental fees, etc.

Going with scholarships. Bet the ad is paying the full freight for every player back to the university. They are cashing checks with very little investment from the university. Not having money is laughable

 

[Scooch]

While people are getting upset with the article, one thing that is being missed is that none of it is from SU. It’s 2 coaching industry people speaking in general terms about it. The rest is Carlsons opinion and thoughts.

How do "coaching industry people" know if SU's athletic budget breaks even? Or the details on their donor commitments to facilities upgrades?

There's a bunch of quoted items in there that can only come from someone who knows things.

 

[JeremyCuse]

If SU can't buy out ONE YEAR of Dino's contract then we should downgrade the program.

I'm 100% serious.

I also don't believe that for a second.

The article is inaccurate, SU has the money. Wildhack had it last year if Dino didn't finish .500 or better.

 

[Scooch]

The article is inaccurate, SU has the money. Wildhack had it last year if Dino didn't finish .500 or better.

Yeah, it seems batsh!t to me that they don't have $4 million.

 

[Chip]

Wondered that too but I don't think it was after thinking through it. It was too negative of a source to be JW -- why go out there and crap on the opportunity for the next coach you're going to have to hire unless he knows it won't be this year and thinks the NIL situation will be better by then.

Also, the source on the NIL situation contradicts what other insiders on here have said who claim we're middle of the pack in the ACC. That source makes it seem like we're at the bottom.

Given what the school is paying for in terms of upgrades to facilities, it would be FOOLISH to not invest in the buyout now, especially with the need to sell lots of new season tickets this offseason. The best way to get excitement back in the program is a new coach. Saving say $4-5M (if it's a full buyout) could be overcome very easily.

Yeah, I read it again, and didn't even catch the part about coaching industry experts, just saw anonymous sources.

There are parts of it that read as if the athletic department wants to remind everyone what SU faces.

But then yeah, the NIL and challenge to find a new coach isn't exactly PR for the AD.

 

[007]

Which is why I don't think it was spin coming from Wildhack. I suspect it was a former AD person / connected to program.

IMO, there is zero chance the anonymous source was JW. The take away, for me anyway, is more nuanced than we don't have the money, won't spend the money or don't care about the program. It's in the title of the article. How do we best invest funds we do have to maximize the return for the long term good of the program and to make the position more attractive for the next HC. Big donors will drive the bus on the timing of the HC change.