What must John Wildhack consider as he decides Dino Babers’ fate?

[syracuse95]

Going with scholarships. Bet the ad is paying the full freight for every player back to the university. They are cashing checks with very little investment from the university. Not having money is laughable

A lot of the cost is scholarships, and that puts SU at a disadvantage to other schools because the value of the scholarships is well above the conference average.

 

[orangenauburn]

How do "coaching industry people" know if SU's athletic budget breaks even? Or the details on their donor commitments to facilities upgrades?

There's a bunch of quoted items in there that can only come from someone who knows things.

Again, Dinos agent comes to mind

 

[javadoc]

A lot of the cost is scholarships, and that puts SU at a disadvantage to other schools because the value of the scholarships is well above the conference average.

How many scholarship athletes do we have? Outside of the couple big ones, I have no idea how many soccer/tennis/etc folks are on scholarship.

 

[orangepassion]

If you don't have money to let go of a coach with 1 year left, how do you ever fire a coach? Letting a coach continue in his last year is punting on an entire recruiting class, if not 2 recruiting classes.

 

[Cusefan95]

Going with scholarships. Bet the ad is paying the full freight for every player back to the university. They are cashing checks with very little investment from the university. Not having money is laughable

Pretty sure that is how it works at all schools; athletic department pays tuition for all the athletes. At state schools it used to be typical all athletes were charged out-of-state tuition at state schools as well. The Syracuse athletic department has been raided and pillaged by the university a lot - but this particular item is just standard issue pillaging that goes on at all major conference schools.

At least we’re not Vanderbilt - the way they run their athletic department and handle the accounting is laughable.

 

[cusefan88]

The article is inaccurate, SU has the money. Wildhack had it last year if Dino didn't finish .500 or better.

I heard whispers that had Dino lost the BC game last year...he potentially would have been gone.

 

[Scooch]

IMO, there is zero chance the anonymous source was JW. The take away, for me anyway, is more nuanced than we don't have the money, won't spend the money or don't care about the program. It's in the title of the article. How do we best invest funds we do have to maximize the return for the long term good of the program and to make the position more attractive for the next HC. Big donors will drive the bus on the timing of the HC change.

Which is why this quote is so absurdly dumb I can barely process it...

"If you’re the Yankees, you should be beating everyone. If you’re the Royals, every win is a bonus. The way that you assess a coach has to change."

Such a stupid analogy. I guess I missed the Mets and Padres playing in the NLCS this season. If we've learned anything from pro sports over the past couple decades it's that simply spending a ton of money doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

You need to balance the appropriate amount of large salaries with oodles of cost-controlled talent. You need a player development pipeline to ensure you have that cost-controlled talent. You need great talent evaluators and coaching staff to build that pipeline.

The era of NIL is going to turn college programs into pseudo-MLB franchises from a financial management standpoint. Syracuse is a small-market team, but that doesn't mean we should shut the program down. We simply need to have smart people making smarter decisions.

I mean the Diamondbacks have MLB's 21st ranked payroll, after all.

 

[JKinPhilly]

Weitsman wants back in, got someone to write this for him. If the athletic department is so broke how can they say no?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Weitsman wants back in, got someone to write this for him. If the athletic department is so broke how can they say no?

Nobody here has ANY idea what the financial state of the athletic department is.

 

[elimunelson]

Again, Dinos agent comes to mind

Regardless of who it is (and they certainly are sending a message knowing about the finances. it's not some random guy Rick)...there's a message being sent that this isn't an easy decision for the AD and the school. It is concerning for sure that someone's agenda felt it was important for this story to get out.

 

[djorange1989]

The athletic department cannot be in bad enough shape that they can’t afford to buy out one year of Babers. What is this, Gross Part 2??! Gimme a break, they can afford the buyout, they can afford a coach who isn’t in the upper stratosphere. I am sure Red saved them money over JB, even with his hometown discount. If I am wrong on this, fire Wildhack for Gross mismanagement? Like my pun?

 

[elimunelson]

While people are getting upset with the article, one thing that is being missed is that none of it is from SU. It’s 2 coaching industry people speaking in general terms about it. The rest is Carlsons opinion and thoughts.

I think the jackals are finally sounding off. I'm actually surprised by the lack of interest in how bad this has been for SU football and the collective snooze sound from the national media how far they've fallen since 4-0. Literally no one cares except the psychos on here (like myself).

I do think if we get curb stomped by BC this weekend, it would be foolish to NOT fire Dino now. At least we get some publicity and some pats on the back for doing something about the malaise. The national media will pay attention to Syracuse being serious about things again.

 

[elimunelson]

The athletic department cannot be in bad enough shape that they can’t afford to buy out one year of Babers. What is this, Gross Part 2??! Gimme a break, they can afford the buyout, they can afford a coach who isn’t in the upper stratosphere. I am sure Red saved them money over JB, even with his hometown discount. If I am wrong on this, fire Wildhack for Gross mismanagement? Like my pun?

Great point on Autry. He had to have taken a hometown discount for sure.

Something isn't right here.

 

[UpstateSM]

Maybe pumping $150 million into facilities when that isn't the name of the game in college sports anymore isn't a great decision? Tell those donors that their money is better spent on NIL for recruiting/retention and attracting/maintaining a head coach and a competent and well-rounded coaching staff. Keep up with the times.

The excuses from SU and SUAD are so lame. Make better decisions. If Dino isn't gone after this season then there isn't a reason for Wildhack to the AD. Blah blah blah with the excuses but football is king and this is setting up to be pathetic.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I will say -- what's nice in this go-round as opposed to 2015

The cupboard will not be nearly as bare as the talent level is definitely up from them. However the portal is going to be good and bad in that regard. Players could (and understandably so) jump into it, but it creates opps for the next guy to pull from it as well

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I mean Dino is not getting extended can someone sell me on letting him coach his last year as a lame duck?

Sounds awful because the schedule is easy and then gets impossible the year after. He makes too much to get extended.
Luckily its just 1 year and we don't need to do a Mel Tucker to get out of it.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Maybe pumping $150 million into facilities when that isn't the name of the game in college sports anymore isn't a great decision? Tell those donors that their money is better spent on NIL for recruiting/retention and attracting/maintaining a head coach and a competent and well-rounded coaching staff. Keep up with the times.

The excuses from SU and SUAD are so lame. Make better decisions. If Dino isn't gone after this season then there isn't a reason for Wildhack to the AD. Blah blah blah with the excuses but football is king and this is setting up to be pathetic.

And also -- someone point to why JW isn't under the microscope here as well. Do ADs have hot seats? If so, his is warm IMO.

The JB -- whatever you want to call that
Football hangs in the balance
NIL blunders
Facility spending (even if it is by donors) seems like a misuse of funds.

We'll see what happens -- I'm just not sold on JW overall

 

[Scooch]

Weitsman wants back in, got someone to write this for him. If the athletic department is so broke how can they say no?

That dude could "get back in" anytime he wants. He was told how he needed to behave and he refused. That was his choice.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Maybe pumping $150 million into facilities when that isn't the name of the game in college sports anymore isn't a great decision? Tell those donors that their money is better spent on NIL for recruiting/retention and attracting/maintaining a head coach and a competent and well-rounded coaching staff. Keep up with the times.

The excuses from SU and SUAD are so lame. Make better decisions. If Dino isn't gone after this season then there isn't a reason for Wildhack to the AD. Blah blah blah with the excuses but football is king and this is setting up to be pathetic.

I don't believe it's the SUAD making these excuses.

Also the facilities spending was necessary. We needed to do that AND spend money on NIL. Can't not have basic necessities. The issue was the several prior decades of incompetence and underinvestment. Can't stress this enough. We can't have most of our teams working out in a little area of Manley that would make a neighborhood gym look glamorous.

 

[Scooch]

I will say -- what's nice in this go-round as opposed to 2015

The cupboard will not be nearly as bare as the talent level is definitely up from them.

I disagree with that on the offensive side. Dino inherited Dungey, Strickland, Estime, Philips and Ismael. Do we have anyone even close to that coming back next year? Maybe only Gadsden if his NFL prospects are dim because of his injury.

 

[CousCuse]

If any AD at any university goes to their BOT with a request to terminate a coach and they are denied, they would resign.

 

[McNabb2Brominski]

They could “find” the money to fire Dino if they really wanted to. The question is, is the program in that bad of shape to need pay Dino to go away? I would say no at this point, but that tune could change depending on how the final 4 games go.

 

[Scooch]

I don't believe it's the SUAD making these excuses.

Also the facilities spending was necessary. We needed to do that AND spend money on NIL. Can't not have basic necessities. The issue was the several prior decades of incompetence and underinvestment. Can't stress this enough. We can't have most of our teams working out in a little area of Manley that would make a neighborhood gym look glamorous.

Yesterday I was up at Bryant University for a lacrosse thing that was held at their IPF (shared with football). I was dumbfounded thinking about how Bryant -- a little 3K student, FCS school -- built their place a full year before SU opened theirs.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I will say -- what's nice in this go-round as opposed to 2015

The cupboard will not be nearly as bare as the talent level is definitely up from them. However the portal is going to be good and bad in that regard. Players could (and understandably so) jump into it, but it creates opps for the next guy to pull from it as well

Really? Look at some of the players Dino inherited vs what we have coming back next year. The portal will help but 2024 is worse than 2015 IMO talent wise as of right now.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

They could “find” the money to fire Dino if they really wanted to. The question is, is the program in that bad of shape to need pay Dino to go away? I would say no at this point, but that tune could change depending on how the final 4 games go.

If you don't pay him to go away you need to extend him and even at a discount that is a bad move for all parties. I'm sure its happened but I'd like to see the last time a P5 program let a coach ride out the final year of his contract with no new deal in place.

The question is will there be a scenario where Dino takes 2 or 3 mil instead of 4 to leave quietly after the year. Maybe if we lose the next 3 and they are ugly he agrees and the assistants get the Wake game to audition for their next jobs.