Why are our WRs... underwhelming?

[David332]

Unfortunately Shrader gets much of the blame because of our WR issues. It goes both ways, but I’m honestly more concerned about our receivers than our QBs passing game. I know many will disagree but I get more frustrated with dropped passes than bad throws (as long as it’s not almost intercepted).

 

[texascpa]

The best may not be playing enough

Pena showed he can get open and make a play.

Alford has been criminally underused (a la Johnnie Morant frosh year)

I hate to be that guy, but if we're basing Pena's openness on the one TD pass, doublecheck the replay. The safety blew coverage, that was the only reason he was open.

 

[721Comstock]

I hate to be that guy, but if we're basing Pena's openness on the one TD pass, doublecheck the replay. The safety blew coverage, that was the only reason he was open.

Yup. Safety ran RIGHT BY HIM to double the WR on the outside.

Which - hey, it’s college ball, these things happen, and you have to take advantage when they do!

We got a busted coverage against Clemson for a TD when we beat them in ‘17.

 

[alphaorange]

Isn't he quite small?

He's big enough to be a RB, so he's big enough to be a WR.

 

[texascpa]

Yup. Safety ran RIGHT BY HIM to double the WR on the outside.

Which - hey, it’s college ball, these things happen, and you have to take advantage when they do!

We got a busted coverage against Clemson for a TD when we beat them in ‘17.

Which, to my point, doesn't mean that Pena has some ability to get open. It wasn't his skill that did it, it was Clemson's blown coverage.

I'm not sure what everyone sees in Pena other than he seems to have good hands and is fearless on punt returns. But, he hasn't come close to breaking one on KR or PR lately, and he doesn't seem to be any faster than the next guy.

 

[alphaorange]

I thought Pena was like 5'8"

Listed as 6'

 

[CousCuse]

Which, to my point, doesn't mean that Pena has some ability to get open. It wasn't his skill that did it, it was Clemson's blown coverage.

I'm not sure what everyone sees in Pena other than he seems to have good hands and is fearless on punt returns. But, he hasn't come close to breaking one on KR or PR lately, and he doesn't seem to be any faster than the next guy.

Shrader doesn't have a receiver that is his go to guy, if he bonds with Pena, go with it. He had a lot of drops yesterday where the ball hit the guy in his hands.

 

[AngryOtto]

Before last night he has not been given much run. He's a true frosh from Canada. Growing pains.

Agree but not a true freshman. Second year.

 

[AngryOtto]

Yup. Safety ran RIGHT BY HIM to double the WR on the outside.

Which - hey, it’s college ball, these things happen, and you have to take advantage when they do!

We got a busted coverage against Clemson for a TD when we beat them in ‘17.

So we should give GS credit for reading the broken coverage and making the play. We all know that was not his number 1 option on the call.

 

[721Comstock]

So we should give GS credit for reading the broken coverage and making the play. We all know that was not his number 1 option on the call.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn, once in a while.

 

[CousCuse]

Even a blind pig finds an acorn, once in a while.

Why do pigs get insulted so much. Pigs have very poor eyesight and an extremely keen sense of smell and rely on that to find food. Bears too.

 

[tbonezone]

have to say i was rather underwhelmed by justyn ross. he's projected by some as the #1 receiver 2022 draft ? had one nice catch near the goal line but dropped several easy chances and had the audacity to pull the old "grab my ankle and limp off " charade after a big drop and then return next play. i was expecting more.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why do pigs get insulted so much. Pigs have very poor eyesight and an extremely keen sense of smell and rely on that to find food. Bears too.

Agreed, pigs are a noble member of the animal kingdom and get dumped on unnecessarily imho.

 

[OrangeDW]

Which, to my point, doesn't mean that Pena has some ability to get open. It wasn't his skill that did it, it was Clemson's blown coverage.

I'm not sure what everyone sees in Pena other than he seems to have good hands and is fearless on punt returns. But, he hasn't come close to breaking one on KR or PR lately, and he doesn't seem to be any faster than the next guy.

He did a nice job spinning out of the tackle attempt and getting to the end zone though.

We don’t have a lot to cling to at the position right now, so it’s something.

 

[tbonezone]

Why do pigs get insulted so much. Pigs have very poor eyesight and an extremely keen sense of smell and rely on that to find food. Bears too.

so if i am hiking in bear country should a carry a couple hotdogs to throw if i'm being chased or do the hot dogs themselves invite the hostile encounter ? just curious. signed antigonus.

 

[OrangeDW]

so if i am hiking in bear country should a carry a couple hotdogs to throw if i'm being chased or do the hot dogs themselves invite the hostile encounter ? just curious. signed antigonus.

B.

Don’t bring food and they won’t care about you.

 

[CousCuse]

so if i am hiking in bear country should a carry a couple hotdogs to throw if i'm being chased or do the hot dogs themselves invite the hostile encounter ? just curious. signed antigonus.

Not sure, you should try it and report back with your findings.

 

[tbonezone]

so if QVC is selling an XXL sweater on TV in the color ACORN chances are most pigs won't be interested ?

 

[timkay99]

Our route tree is very limited and we don’t scheme players open.

Called route trees had just been introduced with Gilbert.

Dino loves option routes. It is why you see so many badly thrown incompletions, QB and WR are seeing different things and WR is running a different route then the QB expects. The 3-3-5 defense has become significantly more popular due to the advent of the spread offense and, I believe, has made the option routes harder for both sides to read. The "Baylor" offense hasn't really seen a lot of success lately and those teams that have won, have won via their defenses.

As to why Syracuse WR's aren't very good. A lot of misses in recruiting. Courtney Jackson is the best WR on the current Cuse roster, but was being underutilized before Taj left (he was the guy we were hearing about in the preseason). Misses on the outside WR's have been a problem and they are compounded by the fact Syracuse runs a ton of option routes, so it takes longer to get the talented freshman on the field. The crop of freshman (Alford, Pena, Hatcher, Gadsden) has as much potential as we have had in the WR room in the Babers tenure. They are just young.

I think eliminating option routes, having an actual playbook and having WR's just learn the nuances of route running and getting off of press coverage would help to miminize their learning curve and get the most talented dudes on the field. Problem is, S. Johnson and Queeley are your best blocking WR's.

 

[SUskibum]

Called route trees had just been introduced with Gilbert.

Dino loves option routes. It is why you see so many badly thrown incompletions, QB and WR are seeing different things and WR is running a different route then the QB expects. The 3-3-5 defense has become significantly more popular due to the advent of the spread offense and, I believe, has made the option routes harder for both sides to read. The "Baylor" offense hasn't really seen a lot of success lately and those teams that have won, have won via their defenses.

As to why Syracuse WR's aren't very good. A lot of misses in recruiting. Courtney Jackson is the best WR on the current Cuse roster, but was being underutilized before Taj left (he was the guy we were hearing about in the preseason). Misses on the outside WR's have been a problem and they are compounded by the fact Syracuse runs a ton of option routes, so it takes longer to get the talented freshman on the field. The crop of freshman (Alford, Pena, Hatcher, Gadsden) has as much potential as we have had in the WR room in the Babers tenure. They are just young.

I think eliminating option routes, having an actual playbook and having WR's just learn the nuances of route running and getting off of press coverage would help to miminize their learning curve and get the most talented dudes on the field. Problem is, S. Johnson and Queeley are your best blocking WR's.

This is good info, thanks

Do you think the new arm bands the offense keeps referencing are related to the move of Gilbert to transition to more traditional routes?

 

[BillSU]

some good options for WR's: Harris, Queeley, Jackson, Custis (6'5" 227), Riley, Etta - Tawo, Estime, Ishmael, Philips, Riley, Pierce, Hackett. Unfortunately most are gone. Pena is 6' 185

 

[hoopsupstate]

We just have to recruit better at this position. Pitt just seems to reload with good receivers. We’ve struggled since Dino’s been here. I think Ismael was recruited by Schafer. Etta was a transfer. We need to get lucky in the portal. It’s by far the weakest position on the roster.

 

[PhatOrange]

Exactly. If they were household offers you could’ve typed a few examples instead of the snark. I don’t remember the offers either.

That's a ridiculous take. VT, Penn State, UNC, Florida, FSU, Miami, Oregon to name a few. The list is long for all 4.

For the rivals links add add .rivals after the n. = n.rivals/

Oronde Gadsden II Recruit Interests

247sports.com

https://n./content/prospects/2021/oronde-gadsden-236805

Umari Hatcher Recruit Interests

247sports.com

https://n./content/prospects/2021/umari-hatcher-249946

https://n./content/prospects/2020/damien-alford-241477

Damien Alford Recruit Interests

247sports.com

Ja'Vontae Williams Recruit Interests

247sports.com

https://n./content/prospects/2020/ja-vontae-williams-230559

 

[SURules]

The best may not be playing enough

Pena showed he can get open and make a play.

Alford has been criminally underused (a la Johnnie Morant frosh year)

This might be really true. Remember, Dino said it takes 4 games for him to find out who his players are. He amazingly said that a couple of years ago.

 

[Chip]

2.) Offensive Complexity - as simple as this offense is, it is probably most difficult for receivers to come in and make an immediate impact. The playbook is littered with option routes, which ask WR’s to not only know multiple routes, but understand how to read coverages and run the correct one.

A lot of these younger kids have not seen anything but basic coverages coming into college. It gets much, much harder at this level.

Curious on this point. Do you think it's the best strategy for the rest of this season? On one hand, I would think it's something that could offset having less talent at WR. On the other hand, the younger WRs (Alford, Hatcher, Gadsden) were offered by multiple P5 big boy schools, so should we simplify for now and try to get those on the field who can make a play? I know Gadsden is hurt at the moment.

I don't know the answer, but Sharrod/Queeley knowing the nuances of the offense doesn't seem like it's helping very much.