Why can't SU recruit guards who can shoot?

[br801]

It's far more concerning for me that Cooney is still fading to the left in the early part of his 5th year on this team than Mal taking 4 bad shots out of 11. Much more.

I also find the comment about Cooney off the screens interesting. Maybe that speed is the problem. He's moving too quickly and does NOT have the ability to properly set his feet when taking the shot off the curl. Rautins was WAY better at that. Maybe because he was a little slower and more deliberate.

Rautins off the curl was a thing of beauty by his last season. Cooney still looks like he has ants in his pants attempting that shot. He has the athleticism and elevation to do what Andy did, but I'm not sure we will ever see it.

 

[Alsacs]

Cooney is going to play.

It's pretty clear the coaches have more confidence than the fans do.

I'm still going to root for him, because thats all you can do if he's going to play.

Makes me wonder how bad Joseph looks in practice though.

Nobody doesn't think Cooney shouldn't play or start.

I honestly doubt JB would give in and would change by cutting this guy's minutes. We all root for him. I can't believe its possible Cooney practices at a level higher than Joseph that he should be playing 38.2 minutes each game.

It is just frustrating because the guy plays ALL the minutes and it prevents others from getting playing time. If Joseph can't play SG guard with Gbinije he should be gone after this year as well. Joseph may not be the player we all want but he is younger and gets held to a higher standard. Cooney has been getting ALL THESE MINUTES for 3 years in a row now. Cooney should play less and then he would probably be better. All these minutes make his PER below what an average player's PER should be. Cooney's PER is 13.8 an average CBB player's PER is 15.0

These minutes make Cooney's efficiency lower.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Rautins off the curl was a thing of beauty by his last season. Cooney still looks like he has ants in his pants attempting that shot. He has the athleticism and elevation to do what Andy did, but I'm not sure we will ever see it.

I went back and watched parts of the Duke, Notre Dame and Indiana games from 2014 on Monday and just watched Cooney. He hit difficult shots off the curl in each of those games. His balance was so much better. Even when he wasn't shooting he was making more decisive plays than he is now. For whatever reason he isn't as balanced as he was then. We also had a legit PG, and the ball moved so much better between all 5 players. Now, as a team we just seem to pass the ball around the perimeter.

 

[Alsacs]

I went back and looked at CJ Fair's MPG during his 2nd all-Ameican season in 2014 he played 37.2 MPG.
Hell GMac in 2005-06 averaged 35.1MPG.

We aren't even in conference play and that 38.2 isn't going to go down.

 

[br801]

I went back and watched parts of the Duke, Notre Dame and Indiana games from 2014 on Monday and just watched Cooney. He hit difficult shots off the curl in each of those games. His balance was so much better. Even when he wasn't shooting he was making more decisive plays than he is now. For whatever reason he isn't as balanced as he was then. We also had a legit PG, and the ball moved so much better between all 5 players. Now, as a team we just seem to pass the ball around the perimeter.

That's the thing. He is capable of doing it, but can't find any consistency in his mechanics. I have to wonder if injury isn't a factor.

 

[SWC75]

I really hope his answers are all coach speak or we are screwed.

Could please explain that statement?

 

[SWC75]

I like the discussion in this thread. Very interesting.

I wonder if our guard's inability to shoot is on them or on the offense. Seems like the best shots from 3 these days result from passing into a big and then kick out to a guard. We just don't do that. Rak did a decent job at this last year from what I remember. Maybe posting Roberson lower (or DCII or Lydon - I really don't care) and feeding him the ball with instructions to find the open guy would help out?

I've always felt that the shooting % on three pointers goes way up when the ball goes inside first. I think it has to do with the difference between catching a call that is coming right at you as you are squared up vs. having to turn to catch the ball and turn back to shoot. That's why i want Lydon in the high posts on a regular basis. it could in to him to shoot, drive, dump it down low or back out for a straight-on triple. But Hop said he wants to keep Lydon moving around "to force defenders to make choices".

 

[SWC75]

This won't be a popular opinion, but I think the historical hand-wringing about SU's free throw shooting is silly. A good college free throw shooting team will be at about 75%, and a crappy one at 65%. Assuming about 20 attempts per game per team, that works out to about a 2 point difference on average per game. One hustle play by the inferior free throw shooting team can make up for that.

What's critical to me is having a few guys who are capable of knocking down free throws in end game situations. This team has that in Cooney and Lydon (and possibly Gbinije).

Check out page 71 of the NCAA Record Book, ("Statistical Trends") The overall NCAA free throw percentage has never gotten above 69%. Any 70% shooter is a good free throw shooter, (in college, anyway).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2016/DivI.pdf

 

[RF2044]

I've always felt that the shooting % on three pointers goes way up when the ball goes inside first. I think it has to do with the difference between catching a call that is coming right at you as you are squared up vs. having to turn to catch the ball and turn back to shoot. That's why i want Lydon in the high posts on a regular basis. it could in to him to shoot, drive, dump it down low or back out for a straight-on triple. But Hop said he wants to keep Lydon moving around "to force defenders to make choices".

I think it is a combination of catching in rhthym + having more room [if the defense is shifting around to chase the ball]. Even in man, those type of kick outs lead to more open shots. And open shots generally are higher quality looks. Higher quality looks have a better chance of going in.

 

[Alsacs]

I think it is a combination of catching in rhthym + having more room [if the defense is shifting around to chase the ball]. Even in man, those type of kick outs lead to more open shots. And open shots generally are higher quality looks. Higher quality looks have a better chance of going in.

Rak was a great post player last year. It now has become this simple on D keep 1 player on the SG and the SG becomes defended. Don't help if you are guarding the SG.

I have watched the games from last year teams would just keep 1 guy on the SG and play us 4 vs. 4. The problem is we need SGs who can be a little more diverse. I would love to see Malachi get a shot at SG and tell him drive the ball and shoot your 3's.

We need more diversity out of the SG position. Unless you are a Brady Heslip type shooter you can't just be a shooter.

 

[br801]

Check out page 71 of the NCAA Record Book, ("Statistical Trends") The overall NCAA free throw percentage has never gotten above 69%. Any 70% shooter is a good free throw shooter, (in college, anyway).
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2016/DivI.pdf

At least the numbers I pulled out of the air for FT attempts and percentage are close to reality.

 

[two3zone]

cooney and richardson are shooting under 30% on 145 three pointers so far

gbinije was a forward who is doing a great job at the point but that's not what he was recruited by duke to do and it's not what boeheim expected him to do when he transferred here. part of the reason he's playing there is because they've failed at recruiting guards who can shoot

i'm very pleased with lydon. it's too bad he's wasting so much energy on defense playing out of position

But everybody hates Cooney who wastes just as much energy on defense and probably 10xs the amount of energy on offense running around like a mad man trying to get open.

I'm not picking on you but it's frustrating to see Cooney get all this BS constantly, and I'm not saying it's not warranted but he's hated, while another guy is doing about the same thing playing less minutes and he's looked at as "very pleased". It's not really fair.

 

[orangefan13]

In typical college ball you see guys take their time and correct to knock down a 3 ball.

Some players take their time and slows down their release instead of one fluid motion. This is something that Syracuse hasn't done well in recent years.

I want to blame the zone for the reason we don't do this and opponents do, but against st johns there was no excuse. We had the same looks a zone gives you.

The same thing goes for getting a offensive rebound and knocking down a kickout three after it. How many times does that happen to us? I kid you not we are probably less then 15 percent on the season for threes made off a offensive board, no joke. I have been watching very closely For our first 5-6 games (including the exhibitions) we missed every three off of a offensive board. We were 0-25 at a point as I recall.

I don't want to see our guys go the route of overcorrecting jumpshots, as I think they are to good of shooters to, but sometimes good players see the 5 defenders and need to realize they have time to. That is the beautiful thing about having pullup shooters they know where the defender is and how much time they have to release. This is what makes me scratch my head about Malachi the first few games he really looked more relaxed with his release. In comparison, I imagine its very hard to know where the defender is around a low post curl screen.

 

[Millhouse]

But everybody hates Cooney who wastes just as much energy on defense and probably 10xs the amount of energy on offense running around like a mad man trying to get open.

I'm not picking on you but it's frustrating to see Cooney get all this BS constantly, and I'm not saying it's not warranted but he's hated, while another guy is doing about the same thing playing less minutes and he's looked at as "very pleased". It's not really fair.

Lydon makes shots.

 

[MikeSU02]

Could please explain that statement?

Sure.

I get what he's saying - these guys need to make better shot choices and work on shot mechanics (paraphrasing). I'm not denying that is absolutely the correct thing to say and actions that should be taken.

But here is my problem - he talks about Trevor as though he's a really good shooter. He isn't. He has had good runs, for sure, but he has shot almost 700 three pointers and almost 1,000 shots, overall. He is who he is. And that is fine.

And if our strategy is to just try to do it like we've been doing it, just "be better", we are done.

TC cannot continue to put up the number of FGs he does. And, to be fair, Mal can't be doing it either.

But at this point, I don't expect anything different. I think there will be some games where TC and/or Mal are hitting shots and we'll run a team out of the gym. However, it's not something that we do well enough to win consistently. We need more G (a little more) and way, way more of Lydon.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sure.

I get what he's saying - these guys need to make better shot choices and work on shot mechanics (paraphrasing). I'm not denying that is absolutely the correct thing to say and actions that should be taken.

But here is my problem - he talks about Trevor as though he's a really good shooter. He isn't. He has had good runs, for sure, but he has shot almost 700 three pointers and almost 1,000 shots, overall. He is who he is. And that is fine.

And if our strategy is to just try to do it like we've been doing it, just "be better", we are done.

TC cannot continue to put up the number of FGs he does. And, to be fair, Mal can't be doing it either.

But at this point, I don't expect anything different. I think there will be some games where TC and/or Mal are hitting shots and we'll run a team out of the gym. However, it's not something that we do well enough to win consistently. We need more G (a little more) and way, way more of Lydon.

Just my 0.02.

There was an interview posted in yesterdays articles where Lydon says he knows he needs to be more aggressive.

Let's hope that happens. It's our best chance for success.

As far as Mal and Cooney, I just hope they can shoot above 33%. That should be good enough.

I think the coaches are banking on that, because I don't think the volume of shots they take will decrease that much.

 

[two3zone]

Lydon makes shots.

Because he isn't a first option and doesn't have a guy within 10 feet of him when he shoots.