Why has Marrone gone "him against the fans"?

[Stern]

Yea, I know a few will jump up and down about that statement. But while no one thing here can be made a big deal out of, you can begin to see the cumulative effect of decisions made about things the FANS look forward too. Recruiting event? Sorry. Open spring practice after it was said they would be? Sorry. Depth chart (that fans like to "analyze")? Sorry. Every decision is counter to what Joe Fan would like. Between his bunker attitude and the many decisions made by the AD that is clearly anti-fan, I'm beginning to wonder if they want any fans or if they want the fans to be part of things. I'd think they would try to pump up the fan base. Guess not.

He is making his bed and he is going to have to lay in it at some point. He better hope everything works because if it doesn't this town is going to turn on him and be calling for his head. Especially going into the last year of his contract.

For many reasons I gave up my season tickets this year. F' em! F' em all up there! There is no bonus to being a season ticket holder. After 20+ years for me and since day 1 of the beginning of the Dome nobody in my family will have football season tickets. It's sad in one way but hey, we didn't leave SU football, SU football left us! The 1 or 2 decent games they have IF I want to go to just walk up on the same day, by a cheap ticket off the street and pick your seat. Lord knows there will be room.

Marrone strikes me as a guy who if you invited to a paintball game he would show up thinking he is fighting in the jungles of Vietnam and just sap all the fun out of things and take it way too seriously. I mean this is COLLEGE FOOTBALL and this guy thinks he is protecting state secrets with his actions. I'm sorry finding a half hour to show up and go over recruits in early February he has time for! No excuse in the world will fly for that one and anyone who defends him on that is either a blind homer or just doesn't get it! And not to release a depth chart, once again, silly! Hell make one up and lie to us, it isn't set in stone its friggin March!!!! Doug doesn't get it. On the field or Off! Its sad to say but I think he is in way over his head and I have felt that way for a while now and each passing day reinforces my belief.

 

[Chip]

Marrone is clearly not the enthusiastic guy he was when he took this job. He's finding out that it isn't as easy to fix this with so much competition for recruits these days, it's not like it was in the 80s and 90s. So now the thought is that he's making sweeping changes to fix everything, and hopefully it will work. Given all the silver he sees in the Dome each week, he's betting that with a better football team on the field and that problem will correct itself. You could argue that he should give back a little more to those most loyal, but it looks like he's thinking their SU fans anyway, and when this is turned around, they will certainly be there. Along with about 20,000 new friends.

I hope those thinking there will be big offensive changes prove to be right. I just have this feeling that Nassib will start, take 100% of the snaps (if he stays healthy), and we'll basically see the same offense we've seen. There were no staff changes, just seems strange that the same people will make significant changes. I guess if we can figure out how to get Nassib to throw a deep pass, and some of the younger WRs can get open deep, many of the problems could fix themselves.

 

[DCCuse]

If they win, fans will show up, if not they won't. This stuff matters to a minor % of posters here, nevermind the fanbase at large. It's only about winning, DC Cuse is showing up whether there is a press conference about Danny Conley or not.

It is true... I will.

 

[Scooch]

Marrone is clearly not the enthusiastic guy he was when he took this job. He's finding out that it isn't as easy to fix this with so much competition for recruits these days, it's not like it was in the 80s and 90s. So now the thought is that he's making sweeping changes to fix everything, and hopefully it will work. Given all the silver he sees in the Dome each week, he's betting that with a better football team on the field and that problem will correct itself. You could argue that he should give back a little more to those most loyal, but it looks like he's thinking their SU fans anyway, and when this is turned around, they will certainly be there. Along with about 20,000 new friends.

I hope those thinking there will be big offensive changes prove to be right. I just have this feeling that Nassib will start, take 100% of the snaps (if he stays healthy), and we'll basically see the same offense we've seen. There were no staff changes, just seems strange that the same people will make significant changes. I guess if we can figure out how to get Nassib to throw a deep pass, and some of the younger WRs can get open deep, many of the problems could fix themselves.

Your post captures what I suspect will be the tone here from now 'til 9/1... that being... :bang:

 

[JeremyCuse]

He is making his bed and he is going to have to lay in it at some point. He better hope everything works because if it doesn't this town is going to turn on him and be calling for his head. Especially going into the last year of his contract.

For many reasons I gave up my season tickets this year. F' em! F' em all up there! There is no bonus to being a season ticket holder. After 20+ years for me and since day 1 of the beginning of the Dome nobody in my family will have football season tickets. It's sad in one way but hey, we didn't leave SU football, SU football left us! The 1 or 2 decent games they have IF I want to go to just walk up on the same day, by a cheap ticket off the street and pick your seat. Lord knows there will be room.

Marrone strikes me as a guy who if you invited to a paintball game he would show up thinking he is fighting in the jungles of Vietnam and just sap all the fun out of things and take it way too seriously. I mean this is COLLEGE FOOTBALL and this guy thinks he is protecting state secrets with his actions. I'm sorry finding a half hour to show up and go over recruits in early February he has time for! No excuse in the world will fly for that one and anyone who defends him on that is either a blind homer or just doesn't get it! And not to release a depth chart, once again, silly! Hell make one up and lie to us, it isn't set in stone its friggin March!!!! Doug doesn't get it. On the field or Off! Its sad to say but I think he is in way over his head and I have felt that way for a while now and each passing day reinforces my belief.

I think many season ticket holders and other locals are feeling very similar to how you are Stern. I was able to get my group to renew there season tickets but I know others who were thinking about getting seasons or at least heading to a few games who know probably wont go based on how the schedule is set up with 1 home game the last two months of the season and the way the season ended. I know several others who are fed up with the parking situation and now the schedule issues with a lack of home games has been the last straw. I hope the SU marketing team has some tricks up there sleeves because were looking at horrendous attendance numbers and Marrone's decision sure as hell arent helping the situation.

 

[tep624]

I think you are over analyzing things, most people don't even realize Marrone has done anything different and those that do, don't really care, it has no effect on things anymore, they need to win.

The message is Marrone is tired of wasting his time catering to a dwindling front running fan base and this type of fan base is tired of losing, winning is the only thing that will bring them back not spring practices or recruiting functions, those people are most likely not going anywhere but here to whine about it.

Nail meet head. Couldn't have said it any better myself. I doubt he really gives a crap about 100 people that analyze a depth chart. And to be quite honest, if he did I'd want him fired because he has no ability to prioritize. It's a nice to have, not a need to have.

CNY is notorious for front running - sorry but it's true. If the basketball team started losing you'd see 15k showing up at the dome, bank on it. Those are the people that have nothing better to do - and that's not a knock at Syracuse Athletics. That's just the mentality of CNY.

I'd be curious to know on average what the makeup of attendance is, what the actual percentage tickets sold on an annual basis are to alums vs. non-alums/locals. It would be interesting to see the percent decline or increase in tickets sold to those two groups as the teams wins or losses fluctuate.

 

[OrangeBlood]

Nail meet head. Couldn't have said it any better myself. I doubt he really gives a crap about 100 people that analyze a depth chart. And to be quite honest, if he did I'd want him fired because he has no ability to prioritize. It's a nice to have, not a need to have.

CNY is notorious for front running - sorry but it's true. If the basketball team started losing you'd see 15k showing up at the dome, bank on it. Those are the people that have nothing better to do - and that's not a knock at Syracuse Athletics. That's just the mentality of CNY.

I'd be curious to know on average what the makeup of attendance is, what the actual percentage tickets sold on an annual basis are to alums vs. non-alums/locals. It would be interesting to see the percent decline or increase in tickets sold to those two groups as the teams wins or losses fluctuate.

I would guess there are not too many alums. Don't know many guys that stayed in Syracuse after Graduation.

 

[rrlbees]

If they win, fans will show up, if not they won't. This stuff matters to a minor % of posters here, nevermind the fanbase at large. It's only about winning, DC Cuse is showing up whether there is a press conference about Danny Conley or not.

Again, you are talking about diehards here, not the average joe fan. I know of at least a dozen seasons myself that were given up this year for 1 reason or another. I know of others who are keeping their seasons but giving up on the pledges for preferred seats. That's another kick in the balls to long time fans. Fan A can give $3K/yr for 20 years ($60K), while Joe Blow johnny come lately who will write it off as a business expense, gives $5K this year. Guess who gets all the bennies? What have you done for me lately, screw the heart of our fanbase. I'm telling you, this University does not get it. We've had seasons since the early 60's, still have 6. We aren't going anyplace, but they don't make anything easy or feel worthwhile.

 

[rrlbees]

Nail meet head. Couldn't have said it any better myself. I doubt he really gives a crap about 100 people that analyze a depth chart.

Yes, because it's all about a depth chart.

 

[Czar]

Marrone has an entirely wrong mindset for the Syracuse job. This is not Alabama, and you are not Nick Saban. Running a college football team like an NFL team will never work, again, unless you are Alabama, or Texas, and have the luxury of picking your choice of the litter. How does the rest of college football compete with these minor league teams? By going outside the box and innovating. Leach at Texas Tech, Gundy at Oklahoma State, Holgorsen, Chip Kelly at Oregon, Petrino at Arkansas, Boise State, Houston, how do they compete in this world? Opening up the game, make it fun, make the fans like the product even when it isn't working at a five star level. I find Marrone's strategy akin to early Continental Armies in the Revolution trying to defeat the British in open warfare where that wasn't possible. Holgorsen, Kelly, and Leach have all retreated to the woods and play hit and run against that juggernaut and play the game in a way they can actually win. We have the Dome, we need to do the same.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

He is making his bed and he is going to have to lay in it at some point. He better hope everything works because if it doesn't this town is going to turn on him and be calling for his head. Especially going into the last year of his contract.

For many reasons I gave up my season tickets this year. F' em! F' em all up there! There is no bonus to being a season ticket holder. After 20+ years for me and since day 1 of the beginning of the Dome nobody in my family will have football season tickets. It's sad in one way but hey, we didn't leave SU football, SU football left us! The 1 or 2 decent games they have IF I want to go to just walk up on the same day, by a cheap ticket off the street and pick your seat. Lord knows there will be room.

Marrone strikes me as a guy who if you invited to a paintball game he would show up thinking he is fighting in the jungles of Vietnam and just sap all the fun out of things and take it way too seriously. I mean this is COLLEGE FOOTBALL and this guy thinks he is protecting state secrets with his actions. I'm sorry finding a half hour to show up and go over recruits in early February he has time for! No excuse in the world will fly for that one and anyone who defends him on that is either a blind homer or just doesn't get it! And not to release a depth chart, once again, silly! Hell make one up and lie to us, it isn't set in stone its friggin March!!!! Doug doesn't get it. On the field or Off! Its sad to say but I think he is in way over his head and I have felt that way for a while now and each passing day reinforces my belief.

The guy gets paid $1,000,000 a year to win football games, he was also an OC in the NFL. I doubt the guy is coaching for "fun" anymore. What world do you live in? It's his career, he knows the stakes, knows he is well paid for it but it comes at a cost, win or you get canned. That said, JB said just last week stated that he does not have fun coaching basketball, he gets paid for it, if he wanted to have fun he would play golf, his words not mine

Again, you may care about this stuff Stern but the vast majority don't. Again, you cancelled your tix which is the right choice if it bothers you that much. Yet you still come to an internet forum to discuss the program, etc. Pounde your chest and tell everyone that you cancelled and you Syracuse University has wronged you somehow. What do they owe you? What does Marrone owe you? A depth chart a recruiting dinner with cheese and crackers for recruiting geeks? Seems weird no? I bitch sure but the day I cancel my tickets is the day I just say F it all and quit following the team. So you will still follow the team but won't buy seasons to prove a point? strange, yeah because the football program is just rolling in it up there, they should sell $100 seasons and let guys like you call the plays or something. Marrone has a job to do and he will do it, if he does not he will be fired. he licked the fanbases nuts for 3 years and it got him nowhere. I am not a huge fan of Marrone by any means actually quite the contrary but this mentality that Marrone owes the fans more is asinine. he tried it did not work, so he is focusing on X's and O's.

Again, he isn't really even pissing anyone off but a select few whiners. This will make no difference on attendance regardless of this guy saying he knows a guy and he knows another guy that cancelled his seasons. What is wrong with Syracuse?

 

[orangenirvana]

I just do not understand how not releasing a depth chart helps you win. They obviously have one, how else would they organize practice. Also, I do not get why the practices are closed. Unless they think there is a spy that is taping their new offense. The kids will play in front of people in the fall. And a signing day event I REALLY do not get, it is the best way to get fans excited. Everyone always gets pumped about recruits why not sell that?

If we win 8 games this year, obviously this will not matter. Wins are everything in the profession. But if they struggle this year like I think they will, it will be very tough to draw fans and get support.

I agree, IB. Some people just like to harp on the negative. I don't see Bees posting after wins.

It makes a lot more sense for a depth chart to come out after spring. The diehard, freak fans like us on this forum know what the depth chart looks like right now.

It's all about wins and losses. Marrone has turned into a bit of a loon recently, but the bottom line is this: if SU has a winning record in 2012, he'll get an extension. If they have a losing record, then Marrone is gone and we hire someone else. It's really that simple.

 

[RoysRunts]

This isn't just a failure on the part of Marrone, its a failure on the entire athletic department.

How can a group of people handle the BBall PR with such effortless grace, then totally up the Football promotions? Remember the midnight madness for BBall? It was EPIC! Remember fan-fest from 2011? Neither do I. Marrone did a good enough job alienating the fanbase with his performance to end the 2011 season.

BBALL PR :rolling: Jim BoeHeim is the only BBALL PR.

 

[SmilinBob]

Marrone has to do what he thinks is right and sometimes you can have your fingers in too many pies and I firmly believe he did that when he first came here as he wanted to please everyone and to be honest the only way to really do that is to win games.

 

[Stern]

The guy gets paid $1,000,000 a year to win football games, he was also an OC in the NFL. I doubt the guy is coaching for "fun" anymore. What world do you live in? It's his career, he knows the stakes, knows he is well paid for it but it comes at a cost, win or you get canned. That said, JB said just last week stated that he does not have fun coaching basketball, he gets paid for it, if he wanted to have fun he would play golf, his words not mine

Again, you may care about this stuff Stern but the vast majority don't. Again, you cancelled your tix which is the right choice if it bothers you that much. Yet you still come to an internet forum to discuss the program, etc. Pounde your chest and tell everyone that you cancelled and you Syracuse University has wronged you somehow. What do they owe you? What does Marrone owe you? A depth chart a recruiting dinner with cheese and crackers for recruiting geeks? Seems weird no? I bitch sure but the day I cancel my tickets is the day I just say F it all and quit following the team. So you will still follow the team but won't buy seasons to prove a point? strange, yeah because the football program is just rolling in it up there, they should sell $100 seasons and let guys like you call the plays or something. Marrone has a job to do and he will do it, if he does not he will be fired. he licked the fanbases nuts for 3 years and it got him nowhere. I am not a huge fan of Marrone by any means actually quite the contrary but this mentality that Marrone owes the fans more is asinine. he tried it did not work, so he is focusing on X's and O's.

Again, he isn't really even pissing anyone off but a select few whiners. This will make no difference on attendance regardless of this guy saying he knows a guy and he knows another guy that cancelled his seasons. What is wrong with Syracuse?

This is the dumbest post ever, and on this site that is saying something. YES, i did cancel my season tickets and still post on this message board. I didn't know once I canceled my tickets I had to give up this site too. How stupid is that logic. I can still follow and watch the games on TV for free. I didn't disown the team junior, I just stopped buying season tickets! I don't own NY Yankees season tickets should I not talk about them on a Yankees message board?

You said "he licked the fanbases nuts for 3 years".....when? where? how? Sorry I don't see that. And if I take your premise that he did lick the nuts of the fanbase for 3 years (which I don't but I will play along) and it got him nowhere, once again, 100% WRONG! What got him nowhere is BAD coaching by him! Not playing to the fans or trying to pacify the fans. He has failed because he is a BAD (yes BAD) in-game and gameday coach making BAD decisions. Holding (or not holding) a recruiting event in early February didn't make him do dumb things in games last year.

I never said he was or should be coaching for fun either. Way to take everything I said out of context. My point was the guy doesn't realize you can't run a college football team like an NFL team or even worse a military. He is dealing with kids! That was the point, I never mentioned that he should give up his salary or be coaching for free or be laughing and smiling and talking the whole thing as fun hobby. But he should at least realize that his job is not just X's and O's but its selling the program and involving the community on some level. It's funny, Jim Boehiem coaches 30+ games a year which is three-times more than Marrone does and he has time for multiple radio shows, The Basket Ball, numerous charity fundraisers, Midnight Madness, The Hardwood Banquet...etc. He can find time for all of that and still coach the team. It's not a one or the other approach. Boehiem can find the time to involve the community in his basketball program and not go hide in his bunker and hide behind the excuse "i am coaching now, no time for anything else."

The reason the "vast majority" doesn't care is because this program, and in large part because of its head coach, don't market the friggin football program! The basketball program doesn't run away from the fans. They are an open book for the most part. The football program gets press in August and ends by December 1st when they aren't going to a bowl. The rest of the year they are in hiding up on the hill in a bunker. No marketing, no events to bring fans in and do a little something for the fanbase, nothing at all. They build NO goodwill among the public or the students. You view that in a narrow minded approach that only a few "die-hards" care about that stuff. But in reality the school NEEDS to build up the football program to bring in new fans and those events help do that. You can call that licking the fanbases nuts, "normal" people just call that good business!

 

[rrlbees]

I don't see Bees posting after wins.

Bees posts aaaalllll the time and has forever. But you knew that. Seems like you and a few others never got the point of the post. When your attendance sucks and you are crying for fans and say you need the fans to be successful (Marrone's words) you would think it would be a fan friendly program. It's not. But keep picking at the details and not see the big picture.

 

[SmilinBob]

Stern, Boeheim and Jake were not the most fan friendly people in the world when Boeheim first started either. Boeheim was actually quite difficult and a bit paranoid/thin skinned.

I agree that the university should be more creative/fan friendly and I thought last seasons spring game, for those who actually went, was a pretty nice deal.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Not having open practices or releasing early depth charts is not uncommon in the ACC. For some of these schools the only media access for Spring practice is through their athletic sites. BB is still the main topic of the the current news cycle of the local news down here in Carolina. They probably won't transition until just before Spring games. The fans still show up for games. It is all about winning.

 

[rrlbees]

Stern, Boeheim and Jake were not the most fan friendly people in the world when Boeheim first started either. Boeheim was actually quite difficult and a bit paranoid/thin skinned.

I agree that the university should be more creative/fan friendly and I thought last seasons spring game, for those who actually went, was a pretty nice deal.

Eh, but it's two different situations. Boeheim won, and won big, right out of the gate. Plus, his surliness was more directed at the media. Marrone is in a totally different situation and has said himself he needs the fans behind the program for him to be successful.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Bees posts aaaalllll the time and has forever. But you knew that. Seems like you and a few others never got the point of the post. When your attendance sucks and you are crying for fans and say you need the fans to be successful (Marrone's words) you would think it would be a fan friendly program. It's not. But keep picking at the details and not see the big picture.

I get the point, I just think it's wrong and lacks big picture. Catering to the $125 season ticket holders or even the smaller donors does nothing as the fans aren't coming back until they win. I think anyone who disagrees with you, fails to see your point in your opinion, very annoying Bees

 

[SmilinBob]

Eh, but it's two different situations. Boeheim won, and won big, right out of the gate. Plus, his surliness was more directed at the media. Marrone is in a totally different situation and has said himself he needs the fans behind the program for him to be successful.

Exactly so if Marrone wins we have no problems. Plus, Boeheim did not make himself available for fans, he disliked the press but he was never as accessible as Marrone was when he first started.

I think the University just doesn't know how to communicate or figure out how to deal with football fans and reading this site gives me an idea on why, the fans are all over the place and want everything handed to them. Again I agree with you that they have to make things easier for us like parking, 7 home games (I know this year was a mess because of what happened) and for people that donate money or even season tickets to do something for them. God, they made the tickets almost free and people still didn't show up so to me the key is and always will be, to win.

Remember the crowd around Marrone after the win vs WV? All kinds of people went to his weekly show, build it and they will come.

 

[rrlbees]

I get the point, I just think it's wrong and lacks big picture. Catering to the $125 season ticket holders or even the smaller donors does nothing as the fans aren't coming back until they win.

It's not the $125 guy. The cheap seats don't do so bad for a decent game. It's also not the big big donors. Look between the 20's especially upstairs. It's deserted. That's the middle guys. Time for SU to rally the troops, not cause friendly fire.

 

[Cusefan95]

I get the point, I just think it's wrong and lacks big picture. Catering to the $125 season ticket holders or even the smaller donors does nothing as the fans aren't coming back until they win.

Disagree. There's no incentive/advantage to being a $125 season ticket holder. It's even worse if you're a preferred season ticket holder, because you get the same perks as the guy at $125 - nothing.

The problem with SU's/Marrone's strategy is it leave no chance for a "grass roots" viral marketing effort. If Bees goes to a practice, sees some positive signs, tells guys at work at the water cooler about it...maybe some of them decide to plan to come to a game or two instead of raking leaves. Instead Syracuse doesn't do that, which means they need to use expensive top-down conventional marketing effort (which generally doesn't work).

SU's strategy has sucked for at least twenty years (how long I've had season tickets). It was mostly masked by the winning in the 90's, but now SU is paying the price. And they continue to dig the hole deeper by not cultivating their most die hard fans to do the tough marketing effort for them.

And it's not like they do a fantastic job or the marketing of the hoops team...if you can't sell a crapload of tickets to see a top five team, your entire marketing department needs to be fired.

 

[SmilinBob]

Well if SU was smart they'd have the same type of "hostesses" that Tennessee uses to recruit and cater the fans.

 

[Bayside44]

I do think that SU should blow up the Dome pricing for football and start over. There is way too much inequity considering how cozy the facility is, and also how it lacks all the club stuff you get today at other stadiums. As far as those that complain about parking, go to another college facility then get back to us.

As far as Marrone goes...he holds a Monday lunch, from reports here is almost never full. He brought the hometown kid in to QB, and a % of our knuckleheaded fans booed him. He did hold open practices, not like there were 4000 people watching. It's just about winning, and getting through this season so we can go to the ACC.