Why Southerland MUST start

[SouthCampusHero]

Southerland has always been a lights out shooter, but he has in the past tended to go on prolonged cold streaks from deep.

Huh? I didnt know lights out shooters go on prolonged cold streaks...or only perform well against inferior competition.

 

[orangefan13]

With our lineup of DC2 and Rak, Keita will get some minutes, Southerland and Fair will, and maybe even grant.

That puts alot of thought time into getting the best out of DC2 and Rak when they are on the floor together. CJ brings look to score in the high post transition next to dc2 and rak. James brings some high post up, outside bombing and high post passing next to dc2 and rak.
Add MCW and his drive. Will he look to pass,score, or get to the line off his drives? And howbout Triche?

JB will be utitlizing the Fair and Southreland combo in the same way. Does he want DC2 out there with them or Rak the majority of the time? Or is he going to do it game by game?
Lots of questions, and so much talent.

 

[Gabjon]

silly thread. We are not going to start a SF that cannot drive. The next time South drives to the basket will be his first time.

Wes Johnson couldn't and still can't drive, and CJ cannot go right, which is kinda important.

 

[cuseinseattle]

silly thread. We are not going to start a SF that cannot drive. The next time South drives to the basket will be his first time.

I agree. The starting lineup is BT, MCW, CJ, DC2 and Xmas. If it was any different I would be shocked.

 

[bozophobe]

'sup?

Not sure if JS should start, because like others have pointed out, and the last few years of deep SU teams have shown, it doesn't seem to matter much in contrast to minutes played. Dion's current lifestyle and future potential seems like good proof.

I did notice toward the end of last season that James seemed to have completely lost any trace of fear of having to mix it up with the opposing teams' big men underneath. Sure, he still retains that puzzlingly meatless stick-like torso, and won't exactly Shaq-butt opposing 260 pound behemoths out of the way (or have that Rodman-like intensity). But since some missed shots do carom a bit further away from the rim, he can compensate there somewhat with his athletic advantage and experience, and help us heaps if he averages 2-3 more per game.

I don't want to expect too much from him regarding treys. It seems best if 3 pt. responsibilities are spread around a bit - that seems like a sign of a successful year. But Gerry clanked 700+. Then Donte threw off our offensive sets with his early launces (tho I like him and root for him professionally). And Nichols had those 3 or 4 games where he was devastating from outside. But our team that season?

***
I was wondering if any of you had some insight into Southerland's career aspirations, or more immediate ambitions about working on additional parts of his game. I can't find anything. Thanks.

***

This is a great site.

 

[ORRange]

there is a 0% chance that Rak is on the bench

I like my chances with that bet. James and CJ will play more minutes than Rak. O%. Be real. It opinions, but I'll talk to you in January. Bet you won't respond then.

 

[Cuse4]

I like my chances with that bet. James and CJ will play more minutes than Rak. O%. Be real. It opinions, but I'll talk to you in January. Bet you won't respond then.

um I'm being real... I'm talking about starting and nothing more... and I'll be here, you won't

 

[ORRange]

um I'm being real... I'm talking about starting and nothing more... and I'll be here, you won't

Your origional post was about Rak starting instead of DC. HIGHLY unlikely. Rak could start and get yanked after 3 minutes at the forward position but won't play more than CJ or James. You could be right, afterall I would never say you have zero chance to be correct about your opinion. lol. By the way, I did say Rak will play a lot at 2 positions in my post. You must have missed that part. DC will start. Gotta have his boards and passing. Talk to you.

 

[cuseincincy]

Huh? I didnt know lights out shooters go on prolonged cold streaks...or only perform well against inferior competition.

I feel the need to point out that James shot 20% from 3pt range in conference games last year.

 

[Cusefaninvirginia]

yeah, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Southerland, who's not very good at creating his own shot, can be pretty easy for other teams to shut down as a shooter. he really struggles against man to man coverage when the other team has a large, athletic guy who really knows how to guard shooters tight. when we're playing weaker non-conference opponents, a lot of those teams don't have someone like that to put on JS, but almost every Big East opponent does. Now, this isn't a huge problem since Southerland has developed the rest of his game so that there's plenty of other ways for him to contribute, and by commanding the attention of one of the other team's better defenders, it often creates opportunities for another Syracuse player who is left being covered by a weaker defender. But overall Southerland tends to be a much more productive player against zone defenses. This is why he's such a great complementary player to CJ Fair, who does much better against man to man than the zone. But I think the end result of this is that it makes JS a better fit to come off the bench than to start.

 

[Gabjon]

and by commanding the attention of one of the other team's better defenders, it often creates opportunities for another Syracuse player who is left being covered by a weaker defender. But overall Southerland tends to be a much more productive player against zone defenses. This is why he's such a great complementary player to CJ Fair, who does much better against man to man than the zone.

This is why you start Southerland! You have to put one of your better defenders on him and he is very good against zones. If we are going to start both Rak and DC2 than you don't teams to zone us it is harder to feed the post and easier to double team, secondly if he has to be guarded closely by the opposing teams best or one of there best defenders that makes it harder to double our bigs as well. It is not about who is the better player its about putting players on the court that compliment each others skill set the best.

 

[Cusefaninvirginia]

fair enough, but I would argue that's more a reason why JS should get lots of playing time - but not necessarily a reason why he should start. i'd rather seem him used in situations that are going to take best advantage of his talent - if a team goes to zone, for example, or if another one of our players gets hot, the other team might not be able to put their best defender on JS. that'll help JS to get off to a good start, which is particularly important with him to help him build his confidence early. (not to mention many other situations that are going to depend on who we're playing that day and on their roster.) but i think you're making some very valid points about why he should be starting, so I think either way we're in good shape. it's a nice problem to have when you've got more than 6 guys you think should be in the starting line up, and either way, JS is going to get good playing time, which is the most important thing.

 

[Gabjon]

For the record I think CJ and James should start with Rak and DC2 fighting it out for the 5 spot but I don't believe that will happen.

 

[orangefan13]

James is good off of moving without the ball. That is a plus off the bench. Your not going to get southerland and Rak running motion all over the court. MCW should be able to drive more with southerland off the bench. Its just not that big of a deal. Dion put a end to the starting argument last year. Really joseph and scoop did in 09-10 when you have that many scorers.

In 09-10 we really needed the energy off the bench when rautins and Wes weren't knocking them down. We needed KJO and Scoops dribble drive to accompany. Last year we really needed Dions scoring off the bench, because we lacked the scorers in the starting lineup to pick it up. All we had was KJO, Triche as a second option when hes more of a third on a great team, and Scoop started the game as a point more then a look to score type. Melo, and Rak didn't bring the offense.

IMO alittle different this year. If MCW, CJ,Rak, DC2 and whoever slump early going with a small lineup and bringing more motion should fix that. CJ and Triche are really good scorers in motion offense, two of the best we have had in the last decade despite the stats. A very underated quality. Southerland works well in motion, and I am willing to bet Cooney can to with his skillset.

Dajuan and Rak won't be as much motion. Its pound it inside high screen, post up findd a hole to the basket, basketball. If we remain slow and need to pound it inside when the jumpers aren't falling, we just go back to them. I highly Doubt that will be the case though with MCW off the dribble CJ's highpost and Triche attack the keyoff of motion, there is to much firepower in both sets. One will work 95% of the time.

 

[RF2044]

For the record I think CJ and James should start with Rak and DC2 fighting it out for the 5 spot but I don't believe that will happen.

We're going to see that lineup a lot.

Not you specifically Gabjon, but people get too hung up on starting. Finishing is more important, and whether Southerland starts or not he's going to get serious run.

 

[orangefan13]

James averaged 6.6 ppg in 16 mpg.
CJ averaged 8.5 in 27 mpg.
Thats more ppg per minutes for southerland.

When Fair got the ball the last few years his mind is on the basket and scoring.
James would look to pass the Rak off of 1-4 bounces, as quicktriggered as he is and people would bash saying he was just getting the ball out of his hands against pressure. I think he is developing that passing skill.

James is caught in between a quicktrigger and helping move the ball. That bodes good in the minutes department for South this year.

 

[Gabjon]

We're going to see that lineup a lot.

Not you specifically Gabjon, but people get too hung up on starting. Finishing is more important, and whether Southerland starts or not he's going to get serious run.

100% agreed! I try to talk/write about basketball as much as possible on the board but some people (not you) are unable to basketball as it relates to our team.

 

[orangefan13]

If you don't have the bench and all your scoring comes from starters then you should be hung up on starting, because most likely that is going to dictate if you win or not.

 

[realorange]

James averaged 6.6 ppg in 16 mpg.
CJ averaged 8.5 in 27 mpg.
Thats more ppg per minutes for southerland.

When Fair got the ball the last few years his mind is on the basket and scoring.
James would look to pass the Rak off of 1-4 bounces, as quicktriggered as he is and people would bash saying he was just getting the ball out of his hands against pressure. I think he is developing that passing skill.

James is caught in between a quicktrigger and helping move the ball. That bodes good in the minutes department for South this year.

Actually not a great difference in assists for either player. Fair .9/game and James .4/game. Difference is mainly Fair's ability to take the ball to the basket. James either shoots or gets rid of the ball.

 

[Gabjon]

Fair only drives left largely on a curl play going from right to left. Great play for a left handed person but its not like he is taking guys off the dribble from the 3pt line. Neither guy has a great handle.

 

[RF2044]

If you don't have the bench and all your scoring comes from starters then you should be hung up on starting, because most likely that is going to dictate if you win or not.

That point hasn't been applicable to our team for the last three years ['10 and '12 in particular]--during which our bench scoring has been unbelievably potent--and it won't be applicable to this upcoming year's team.

Southerland is going to come off the bench, play a ton, and probably average close to double figures per game. He's going to be one of the top sixth men in the nation, if not the best. He's going to likely play starter's minutes. Hence, why obsessing over whether he starts or not is probably completely irrelevant. I'm not suggesting he's as good as Waiters, but I think he is going to give JB a tremendously potent scoring punch off of the bench, giving us a HUGE advantage off of the bench for the third time in four years.

 

[Gabjon]

That point hasn't been applicable to our team for the last three years ['10 and '12 in particular]--during which our bench scoring has been unbelievably potent--and it won't be applicable to this upcoming year's team.

Southerland is going to come off the bench, play a ton, and probably average close to double figures per game. He's going to be one of the top sixth men in the nation, if not the best. He's going to likely play starter's minutes. Hence, why obsessing over whether he starts or not is probably completely irrelevant.

I largely agree with you but if we are down 10 in the first 5mins and lose by 2 or 3 this board will implode!

 

[realorange]

Fair only drives left largely on a curl play going from right to left. Great play for a left handed person but its not like he is taking guys off the dribble from the 3pt line. Neither guy has a great handle.

I almost said Fair usually goes left, but that is one more direction than we have seen Southerland drive. I think we'll see a little more out of both of them this year. My money when the chips are down is still with CJ.

 

[RF2044]

I largely agree with you but if we are down 10 in the first 5mins and lose by 2 or 3 this board will implode!

My expectation is that we are again going to have a balanced scoring team, with several players capable of leading us in scoring any given game, and multiple players [MCW, Triche, Fair, Southerland, Coleman, and to a lesser extent Rak / Cooney] capable of approaching double figures scoring. Wouldn't remotely surprise me to see someone like Triche "lead" the team in scoring at just over 13 PPG a la Kris last year, given how balanced we will be, with different guys stepping up each game. I expect us to have a lot of offensive firepower--again--so I'm not concerned about being down 10 early too often. The things that DO concern me about this team have very little to do with scoring, and a lot more to do with largely unproven commodities stepping into big shoes they need to fill [MCW, Fair, Southerland, Rak, Coleman, Cooney].

We might not be as insanely deep as last year's team, but we're still going to go 8-9 deep, play lots of guys, and have lots of lineup versatility. May the best players win / earn minutes.

 

[orangefan13]

I largely agree with you but if we are down 10 in the first 5mins and lose by 2 or 3 this board will implode!

Agree there will be ignorant blame.
You can go on a 20-5 run in under 5 minutes. And 5 minutes is only 1/8 of the game.
Really scoreboard doesn't matter all that much to the 8 minute left mark in my mind. You just play your game and win where you know you can.