Why the fuss about Nassib?

[billsin01]

Here's the Nassib narrative, IMO, in a nutshell:

Kid arrived with some solid physical tools and a good head on his shoulders. He's developed into a generally average QB who is playing with moderate to below average talent around him in a system appears to lack much identity. He has warts, he has strengths. He appears to be a pretty good leader and a tough kid.

So why all the fuss? People talk about giving up on the season if he's the starter or that he sucks. We're always dealing with posters trying to write him off as a completely worthless QB. We're always trying to suggest that the latest QB recruit is "the one" and will displace him. We have a 5-page thread aimlessly predicting his numbers for next year. (not criticizing the thread, it's fun off-season discussion. just pointing out that almost no thread reaches 5 pages of responses and it's mostly posters arguing over something there is no way to really predict.)

It just makes no sense to me. I think the kid is an average QB who, if surrounded by elite talent, would make a good run at All-Big East. Surrounded by average talent we're looking at a year similar to last with some improvement.

But ultimately offensive system, talent development, figuring out What we need to do to get a good offensive line ... there are so many other concerns this team has that I can't figure out why so much time is dedicated to debating the merits of a guy that from all appearances rates somewhere around average on the QB scale .

 

[Millhouse]

. I think the kid is an average QB who, if surrounded by elite talent, would make a good run at All-Big East.

if you want to just look at the big east, fine. we had the most 1st team big east players (tied with WVU).

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Here's the Nassib narrative, IMO, in a nutshell:

Kid arrived with some solid physical tools and a good head on his shoulders. He's developed into a generally average QB who is playing with moderate to below average talent around him in a system appears to lack much identity. He has warts, he has strengths. He appears to be a pretty good leader and a tough kid.

So why all the fuss? People talk about giving up on the season if he's the starter or that he sucks. We're always dealing with posters trying to write him off as a completely worthless QB. We're always trying to suggest that the latest QB recruit is "the one" and will displace him. We have a 5-page thread aimlessly predicting his numbers for next year. (not criticizing the thread, it's fun off-season discussion. just pointing out that almost no thread reaches 5 pages of responses and it's mostly posters arguing over something there is no way to really predict.)

It just makes no sense to me. I think the kid is an average QB who, if surrounded by elite talent, would make a good run at All-Big East. Surrounded by average talent we're looking at a year similar to last with some improvement.

But ultimately offensive system, talent development, figuring out What we need to do to get a good offensive line ... there are so many other concerns this team has that I can't figure out why so much time is dedicated to debating the merits of a guy that from all appearances rates somewhere around average on the QB scale .

I'm a Nassib supporter, but here's the thing that frustrates me about Nassib.

Supposedly, if not for Nassib's limitations, we would be running the offense that Marrone wants to run.

I'm tired of hearing that. Let's see what this magical offense we've been promised is supposed to look like.

The alternative of course is that we actually are running the offense Marrone wants, and if that's the case, well, screw me.

 

[billsin01]

if you want to just look at the big east, fine. we had the most 1st team big east players (tied with WVU).

I'm not sure I get the point. I said he's an average QB. I'd LOVE an elite QB and think we need to be at above-average at least going forward if we can. That doesn't change where we are and those that think Hunt is going to beat him out are very likely fooling themselves. It's much more likely that two years from now people are pining for Hunt's replacement than they are bi$ching about the media not voting him an all-american.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not sure I get the point. I said he's an average QB. I'd LOVE an elite QB and think we need to be at above-average at least going forward if we can. That doesn't change where we are and those that think Hunt is going to beat him out are very likely fooling themselves. It's much more likely that two years from now people are pining for Hunt's replacement than they are bi$ching about the media not voting him an all-american.

talking about what he'd be like with elite level players around him is a little useless. you can do that for every player at every position. fisher wouldn't have been a problem this year if the offense was great and never punted, so what.

according to the people who pick the first team big east, he had as many good players around him as the big east's BCS representative.

 

[44PRIDE]

Let's see what this magical offense we've been promised is supposed to look like.

This is what aggravates me the most. We are now on year 4 of the "magic binder" and we have yet to see what "multiple" is.

And I don't blame it on Nassib one bit. He's been in Doug's system for 3 years and has been built in the vision of what Doug Marrone wanted.

 

[billsin01]

I'm a Nassib supporter, but here's the thing that frustrates me about Nassib.

Supposedly, if not for Nassib's limitations, we would be running the offense that Marrone wants to run.

I'm tired of hearing that. Let's see what this magical offense we've been promised is supposed to look like.

The alternative of course is that we actually are running the offense Marrone wants, and if that's the case, well, screw me.

Yeah, I'm not really defending Nassib as a "good" or "great" QB as much as saying I'm surprised he's become such a lightning rod and inspired so much debate when we don't really seem to have any sort of heir apparent.

I agree with you -- Marrone needs to run his offense and run it with Nassib. If he wants to add some packages for Hunt, that's great. But he HAS to start running whatever offense he wants this to be.

And, by the way, if Hunt comes in and beats Nassib out I think that's great for all of us. It would certainly seem to indicate the staff thinks he's pretty special, at least potentially. I just don't think it's likely that that happens.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Here's the Nassib narrative, IMO, in a nutshell:

Kid arrived with some solid physical tools and a good head on his shoulders. He's developed into a generally average QB who is playing with moderate to below average talent around him in a system appears to lack much identity. He has warts, he has strengths. He appears to be a pretty good leader and a tough kid.

So why all the fuss? People talk about giving up on the season if he's the starter or that he sucks. We're always dealing with posters trying to write him off as a completely worthless QB. We're always trying to suggest that the latest QB recruit is "the one" and will displace him. We have a 5-page thread aimlessly predicting his numbers for next year. (not criticizing the thread, it's fun off-season discussion. just pointing out that almost no thread reaches 5 pages of responses and it's mostly posters arguing over something there is no way to really predict.)

It just makes no sense to me. I think the kid is an average QB who, if surrounded by elite talent, would make a good run at All-Big East. Surrounded by average talent we're looking at a year similar to last with some improvement.

But ultimately offensive system, talent development, figuring out What we need to do to get a good offensive line ... there are so many other concerns this team has that I can't figure out why so much time is dedicated to debating the merits of a guy that from all appearances rates somewhere around average on the QB scale .

Nassib would be great behind Stanford's OL. Unfortunately, he plays behind a dog-doo OL. SU is not going to get NFL caliber lineman, never has (with one or two exceptions), never will. SU needs an offense that uses a QB's ability to move and run to take the pressure off the OL. Thus, having him as the QB completely limits what the offense can do.

 

[Chip]

His biggest problem is the deep ball. If he completed, say, 3 out of every 10 (I have no idea what a national average is, this seemed forgiving), our offense would have much more success. Not just because of those passes themselves, but what else they could open up for the offense. Instead, he was 0 for every 10, he overthrew just about every single deep ball. And for those thinking who would he throw them to, he had guys open this year deep, on several occasions.

As for the other stuff, he knows the offense, I assume he has to be our best at reading a defense. On all other throws, he's streaky, like a lot of QBs, but he does make a lot of good throws.

Bigger picture problem is that there is no one to put in. Hunt seems to be next from what we read here, but he couldn't play in 2011 as a true freshman, and we have to be careful about how much he even plays as a redshirt freshman.

Unless Nassib can somehow fix that long ball problem, I don't know how 2012's offense is going to be much more productive.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Because most of his detracters are expecting him to put up numbers like Drew Brees.

Since that isn't in the cards, they want a running QB who is on the bench who they will expect to be the next Donovan McNabb.

 

[billsin01]

talking about what he'd be like with elite level players around him is a little useless. you can do that for every player at every position. fisher wouldn't have been a problem this year if the offense was great and never punted, so what.

according to the people who pick the first team big east, he had as many good players around him as the big east's BCS representative.

Ahhh, my only point on the elite players issue is that I think his numbers would be even better if you replaced Lemon/Chew with Taj Smith/Mike Williams (like Andrew Robinson, which is a guy he's compared to). I think a lot of qbs are helped by system and personnel and I think we're lacking in both.

And I suppose one could argue he actually could make a run at all-big east next season with collaros and Smith gone.

But, regardless, it's besides my general point which was -- he's average. Do we need to be better than average? Yes. Do we have a better than average QB behind him? I think not (though if Hunt defies odds and beats him out, I'm completely cool with it). So I'm just not entirely sure what all the discussion is about. We are capable of going bowling with Nassib next year. We won't be playing in the BCS regardless (in all likelihood). So I just don't see why folks get worked up over it.

 

[Millhouse]

Because most of his detracters are expecting him to put up numbers like Drew Brees.

Since that isn't in the cards, they want a running QB who is on the bench who they will expect to be the next Donovan McNabb.

you were on a pretty good run there but this is a really dumb post

i'd be thrilled with drew willy at this point. not as much as chip though. he loves him some willy, that's for sure

 

[billsin01]

Bigger picture problem is that there is no one to put in. Hunt seems to be next from what we read here, but he couldn't play in 2011 as a true freshman, and we have to be careful about how much he even plays as a redshirt freshman.

I generally agree with everything in the post. I would assume his off-season throwing program will be heavily focused on becoming at least "below average" throwing the deep ball (as opposed to "atrocious"). But I guess my view is the bigger picture: I don't think anyone would argue our OL needs to improve dramatically. We were good at RB, but we could be better. Our WRs are, eh, blah. Our TEs w/o Provo are a major question mark. Plus the big elephant in the room of the questionable offensive system.

I guess I tend to think Nassib does OK considering he has some obstacles that Geno Smith/Collaros/Bridgewater, etc. don't have. But even if I'm dead wrong, I'm still not sure why people spend so much time trying to convince themselves that the answer is on the sideline somewhere. And if, by some chance, he is -- then Marrone either has to play him or it's a Marrone issue. Either way I just don't see where Nassib is everyone's concern heading into the offseason.

 

[ImperialOrange]

you were on a pretty good run there but this is a really dumb post

i'd be thrilled with drew willy at this point. not as much as chip though. he loves him some willy, that's for sure

C'mon those comparisons were an extreme exageration which I thought was obvious! aka, it was intentinally dumb but not without merit.

I can understand criticisms for Nassib since he's given plenty of reasons. What I can't understand are the extremist detractors that have themselves convinced that anyone on the bench would come in and be Cam Newton. Pretty sure you're not one of them but you can read the same dead horse posts that I can. Some really have themselves convinced that is who would be stepping on the field if Nassib got benched and that Marrone is just too stubborn to play Cam 2.0.

 

[Millhouse]

C'mon those comparisons were an extreme exageration which I thought was obvious! aka, it was intentinally dumb but not without merit.

I can understand criticisms for Nassib since he's given plenty of reasons. What I can't understand are the extremist detractors that have themselves convinced that anyone on the bench would come in and be Cam Newton. Pretty sure you're not one of them but you can read the same dead horse posts that I can. Some really have themselves convinced that is who would be stepping on the field if Nassib got benched and that Marrone is just too stubborn to play Cam 2.0.

i don't know where i'm going to find the data - cfbstats doesn't go back very far - but sometime i want to prove my suspicion that 2 year starters for teams in the bottom 25% in yards both years don't get a third year. it doesn't require cam newton, it doesn't require any certainty at all.

 

[kingottoiii]

I do not know what the main issue is with the deep passes but whatever it is needs to be fixed. I don't know why things seem to be so hard at SU and nowhere else. Last year we couldn't shotgun snap. This year we can't throw it deep.

 

[billsin01]

SU needs an offense that uses a QB's ability to move and run to take the pressure off the OL. Thus, having him as the QB completely limits what the offense can do.

The problem with this logic, IMO, is that that essentially eliminates SU from ever really competing at a BCS level (you might be able to make this argument, but it's for a different thread). You can't fake your way in -- unless maybe you land a Vick-type.

In almost every offense, you need to be able to throw the football and it should be much easier to find an accurate, smart relatively efficient passer than it is to find a QB that can kill you with his feet and still throw the ball effectively enough to pass 25 times a game. If we're banking on consistently recruiting a great running QB who is also a very solid passer, we're going to have long periods of struggles offensively, IMO.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If we're banking on consistently recruiting a great running QB who is also a very solid passer, we're going to have long periods of struggles offensively, IMO.

Wait, you mean like we've had?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

The problem with this logic, IMO, is that that essentially eliminates SU from ever really competing at a BCS level (you might be able to make this argument, but it's for a different thread). You can't fake your way in -- unless maybe you land a Vick-type.

In almost every offense, you need to be able to throw the football and it should be much easier to find an accurate, smart relatively efficient passer than it is to find a QB that can kill you with his feet and still throw the ball effectively enough to pass 25 times a game. If we're banking on consistently recruiting a great running QB who is also a very solid passer, we're going to have long periods of struggles offensively, IMO.

I'm not advocating becoming Navy. In fact, we may well have (or soon may have) a QB with the necessary running AND passing skills in Hunt or Broyld. But, keeping Nassib will mean that next year's offense will look a lot like last year's offense - same old same old.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah, I'm not really defending Nassib as a "good" or "great" QB as much as saying I'm surprised he's become such a lightning rod and inspired so much debate when we don't really seem to have any sort of heir apparent..

He's the two year starting QB fresh off a 5-7 season. That's really it, as far as why he's a topic goes.

 

[billsin01]

Wait, you mean like we've had?

Ezzactly.

 

[ImperialOrange]

i don't know where i'm going to find the data - cfbstats doesn't go back very far - but sometime i want to prove my suspicion that 2 year starters for teams in the bottom 25% in yards both years don't get a third year. it doesn't require cam newton, it doesn't require any certainty at all.

I'd be interested to read it but seems like a PITA to track down unless you have a specific example in mind. I'd also be interested in what the replacement for that 2 year starter did the next season for some comparison.

Whether or not I agree with other posters initially, well thought out view points are what make this board worth reading. Ive had my opinion changed before by things I read here, and I'm sure I will again.

 

[billsin01]

He's the two year starting QB fresh off a 5-7 season. That's really it, as far as why he's a topic goes.

Fair point. I suppose the fact that he's the starting quarterback makes him a discussion topic. I guess I just see him as a more fixed commodity -- decent qb with a chance to be pretty solid if those around him can take some of the pressure off. And, in all likelihood, fairly easily the best option we have.

 

[billsin01]

i don't know where i'm going to find the data - cfbstats doesn't go back very far - but sometime i want to prove my suspicion that 2 year starters for teams in the bottom 25% in yards both years don't get a third year. it doesn't require cam newton, it doesn't require any certainty at all.

It would be interesting. I mean, I don't really think it's that unusual, however, for experienced guys to be tough to beat out. Freaking Adam Bednarik and some other RB (Clark?) were the starting backfield for WVU at one point while Pat White and Slaton were on the bench for some unknown reason that can only be described as "inexperience." Obviously going with experience is not always the best option.

I think what you're discounting in that research, however, are the factors at play that make Kliff Kingsbury and Timmy Chang combine to throw for basically 30,000 yards and 212 TD passes in college yet never take a meaningful snap in the NFL while Jay Cutler went 11-37 in his college career and never posted a QB rating higher than 127.7 but has been an NFL starter for several years. Systems and functional programs with surrounding talent are huge factors in in QB numbers.

And believe me, I'm not sure how I became a Nassib apologist b/c he frustrates me like everyone else. But I'm just not sure he's as bad as many think and I'm just not sold on the idea that Hunt is our new Pat White.

 

[Cuseregular]

Here's the Nassib narrative, IMO, in a nutshell:

Kid arrived with some solid physical tools and a good head on his shoulders. He's developed into a generally average QB who is playing with moderate to below average talent around him in a system appears to lack much identity. He has warts, he has strengths. He appears to be a pretty good leader and a tough kid.

So why all the fuss? People talk about giving up on the season if he's the starter or that he sucks. We're always dealing with posters trying to write him off as a completely worthless QB. We're always trying to suggest that the latest QB recruit is "the one" and will displace him. We have a 5-page thread aimlessly predicting his numbers for next year. (not criticizing the thread, it's fun off-season discussion. just pointing out that almost no thread reaches 5 pages of responses and it's mostly posters arguing over something there is no way to really predict.)

It just makes no sense to me. I think the kid is an average QB who, if surrounded by elite talent, would make a good run at All-Big East. Surrounded by average talent we're looking at a year similar to last with some improvement.

But ultimately offensive system, talent development, figuring out What we need to do to get a good offensive line ... there are so many other concerns this team has that I can't figure out why so much time is dedicated to debating the merits of a guy that from all appearances rates somewhere around average on the QB scale .

This is because with him at the helm it will be more of the same, that being a decent kid and player, but not one that can keep plays alive with his feet creating something out of nothing and get this team over the hump given all things remaining equal elsewhere (which generally looks like will be the case). Goes without saying that this position is of #1 importance and a team needs a difference maker which his limited skill set precludes and having seen a practice or two no one can convince me otherwise that the other options are THAT bad so as to not deserve some time and a chance.

Also, one area you're off on is the leadership point, the horses mouth says he is not an effective leader for various reasons. I can tell you a semidecent/ semi talented at least somewhat of a competitive team (which at the very least we are all that), bottom line doesn't lose 5 games in a row with a solid effective leader at the helm.