Wide Receiver Issue

[721Comstock]

I know this is speculative, but I think Dino found a faster Erv. But he decided to transfer to Louisville.

… because he didn’t want to be a slot WR, he wanted to be an every-down RB.

Which we tried, and it got him injured and out for the rest of the season.

 

[dollarbill44]

without seeing an all-22 really hard to know what the WRs are doing.. I know live you see guys open on some plays but if he is option #4 I dont think a QB is gonna find that guy all too often. Really wanted to see a bit more commitment to the run last week 0-0 throwing or passing what does it matter but if we had run it more maybe we wear down the D a bit and are able to run it late.. once we tied it a 7 we stopped running at all.

If you make the right read at the line you shouldn't need to get to your 4th option during the play, unless things break down. I saw wide open guys on some of those broken plays Saturday that were underneath the guys that were thrown to. So, TD had to look right past those guys when throwing to someone with a defender on him. Shrader did it at least once also.

 

[Cuse69]

Shafer would have had Dungey for more games in 2015 if he didn't leave him in the game against Louisville down 4 TDs with 8 minutes left because "we still had a shot to win". He was given only 3 years because the guy who hired him was sent packing and his new boss watched him melt down in a series of "We're 3-0! 3-0!" and ISIS press conferences, bugging Coyle for an extension while losing 8 straight after the "3-0" start. Shafer got what he deserved, no matter how things turn out with Dino. Like PP in 2004. it was time for him to go, we just should have never replaced him with a dope like GROB, doesn't mean firing him was a mistake.

I never got the hate for SS leaving dungey in against louisville, he was a true freshman who was our future, why take him out and not let him get experience.
It's easy to say what SS should've done known what happened and he was definitely a clown but IMO if he's the HC for the final 3 years we go bowling 2 times. He never would've gone 1-10 but with the injuries he had to play through 3-9 was the worst he did.

 

[upperdeck]

if the QB comes to the line and the read says throw to the X and the X should run option B.. but then the play starts and the D changes something so you correctly go to the Y and he should be running option A but then he runs option B. this causes the play to break down.. Dino even said this has been happening in his PC.. One reason they have toyed with going away from the offense as designed

the qb doesnt look past guys, he really shouldnt even be seeing them. you dont want the Qb throwing to the 2nd level worrying about whats happening at the first level

 

[djorange1989]

I never got the hate for SS leaving dungey in against louisville, he was a true freshman who was our future, why take him out and not let him get experience.
It's easy to say what SS should've done known what happened and he was definitely a clown but IMO if he's the HC for the final 3 years we go bowling 2 times. He never would've gone 1-10 but with the injuries he had to play through 3-9 was the worst he did.

He had already gotten destroyed by that cheap shot artist on CMU, that is what made me angry when he was in that late against Louisville. He indeed was our future, take him out when the game was that out of hand

 

[Alsacs]

I never got the hate for SS leaving dungey in against louisville, he was a true freshman who was our future, why take him out and not let him get experience.
It's easy to say what SS should've done known what happened and he was definitely a clown but IMO if he's the HC for the final 3 years we go bowling 2 times. He never would've gone 1-10 but with the injuries he had to play through 3-9 was the worst he did.

Shafer the week before when they were blown out by Florida State did take Dungey out.
The anger was he was he did the right thing when the FSU game was out of control. He should have done the same thing at Louisville.
Leaving Dungey in was beyond stupid.

 

[Orangefan1]

2015- Steve Ishmael, Brisly Estime, Erv Philips
2016- Amba Etta-Tawo, Erv philips, Steve Ismael
2017- Steve Ishmael, Erv Philips, Devin Butler
2018- Jamal Custis, Sean Riley, Taj Harris

These guys didn't have issues catching balls

They were put in a spot to make catches and plays, and did. Same with:

2012- Alec Lemon, Marcus Sales, Jared West

I think Amba Etta was my favorite of the group

 

[qdawgg]

without seeing an all-22 really hard to know what the WRs are doing.. I know live you see guys open on some plays but if he is option #4 I dont think a QB is gonna find that guy all too often. Really wanted to see a bit more commitment to the run last week 0-0 throwing or passing what does it matter but if we had run it more maybe we wear down the D a bit and are able to run it late.. once we tied it a 7 we stopped running at all.

Unless you’re getting absolutely stuffed for a loss every run you absolutely have to continue to run the ball. You’re right, what’s the difference between an incomplete and a run back to the LOS. Except the pass is more likely to create a TO or negative yards due to a sack. But you make the gameplan to easy for the D when we got into the mode where it looked like we were passing every down.

 

[qdawgg]

And since when does saying, let’s run the ball mean that we should stop passing. Such a silly argument to hang your hat on. Nobody is suggesting we stop passing the ball but clearly just trying to throw it for numerous reasons isn’t working. You’ve got to run the ball too.

 

[djorange1989]

I think Amba Etta was my favorite of the group

He was fantastic, man do we need another AET

 

[upperdeck]

If we had an AET, Taj would find lots of space to be running open and the running lanes in the Box would look much better.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

And since when does saying, let’s run the ball mean that we should stop passing. Such a silly argument to hang your hat on. Nobody is suggesting we stop passing the ball but clearly just trying to throw it for numerous reasons isn’t working. You’ve got to run the ball too.

Running doesn't need to be boring. Look at WV under Rich Rod. Having a run based O out of the Spread isn't the same Navy's O or Marrone 2010.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Running doesn't need to be boring. Look at WV under Rich Rod. Having a run based O out of the Spread isn't the same Navy's O or Marrone 2010.

Illinois was able to run the ball pretty well using the Rich Rod system. And they had no time to recruit to it. I wouldn't mind bringing their former OC Rod Smith in to replace Gilbert. In conference play Illinois was:

2020 3rd in the B1G
2019 7th in the B1G
2018 2nd in the B1G

You can win games consistently with that. He was also Co OC at Arizona under Rich Rod where the team was at the top of the P12 every year in rushing.

 

[sufandu]

… because he didn’t want to be a slot WR, he wanted to be an every-down RB.

Which we tried, and it got him injured and out for the rest of the season.

I know he didn't want to, I don't need a reminder. But moving a RB to WR did not get him injured. That's just foolish. He gets injured because he played WR when some how Sean Riley didn't? He got injured because he was playing football. It happens.

 

[721Comstock]

I know he didn't want to, I don't need a reminder. But moving a RB to WR did not get him injured. That's just foolish. He gets injured because he played WR when some how Sean Riley didn't? He got injured because he was playing football. It happens.

You’ve got it backwards.

Imagine Sean Riley running beteeen the tackles over and over, vs running in (mostly) open field.

 

[sufandu]

You’ve got it backwards.

Imagine Sean Riley running beteeen the tackles over and over, vs running in (mostly) open field.

I misread your comment. I thought you were saying we tried to move JJ to WR and got him injured. Maybe him wanting to stay at RB got him injured. I don' think so. It's football. Warrick Dunn played RB in the NFL at the same size. Lots of other guys have done it in college. The point is, he would have been a great slot guy, had he decided to stay.

 

[721Comstock]

I misread your comment. I thought you were saying we tried to move JJ to WR and got him injured. Maybe him wanting to stay at RB got him injured. I don' think so. It's football. Warrick Dunn played RB in the NFL at the same size. Lots of other guys have done it in college. The point is, he would have been a great slot guy, had he decided to stay.

True, injuries happen.

And yes - Warrick Dunn is an exception (who proved the rule) as a 'small' RB who was great in college (& Pros).

But, there's a reason RB's typically are at least 190's and usually 200+ lbs - so they can take the beating.

Even though Jawhar would have been a "great slot guy" - HE DID NOT WANT TO BE A WR.
You cannot force a dude to play a position he doesn't wanna play.

And he likely saw that with Tucker now entrenched as RB1, and guys like Lutz, Howard, Adams, Hough also in the RB room, that him wanting to be a RB wasn't going to get him on the field here as much as he desired.
So he left.

 

[syrBossHogg]

That's fine. I'd prefer to win games and not be a laughing stock. Literally we've brought in these types of offenses twice and both times have resulted in our worst teams. Dino and Grob, Baylor and WCO, I'm so freaking over it. Power pro-style football with strong defense is what wins in the Dome, not always but a hell of alot more than trying to be someone we're not like Baylor(TX Talent) or USC.

This is what Nick Saban said earlier this year about power football


Modern football is about scoring and passing, being aggressive on 4th down. My Bills had their best regular season in franchise history last year with this philosophy. SU has still had their best season in 20 years with this philosophy.

Our offense has stunk these past few years, but to me that's more on the coach and the players he's utilizing rather than the philosophy.

 

[Pyle]

Shafer would have had Dungey for more games in 2015 if he didn't leave him in the game against Louisville down 4 TDs with 8 minutes left because "we still had a shot to win". He was given only 3 years because the guy who hired him was sent packing and his new boss watched him melt down in a series of "We're 3-0! 3-0!" and ISIS press conferences, bugging Coyle for an extension while losing 8 straight after the "3-0" start. Shafer got what he deserved, no matter how things turn out with Dino. Like PP in 2004. it was time for him to go, we just should have never replaced him with a dope like GROB, doesn't mean firing him was a mistake.

At least he didn't freaking quit like our current HC seems to have a tendency to do. I'd rather have a coach who fights until the end. Yeah sure there's a fine line in there but if he put in all the 2nd stringers down 28 with 8 to go half of this board would probably be complaining that he quit on the team. 5 and under to go I get it, but over 1/2 a quarter to play, you still play your starters, that is my opinion, you are welcome to yours.

 

[Pyle]

This is what Nick Saban said earlier this year about power football


Modern football is about scoring and passing, being aggressive on 4th down. My Bills had their best regular season in franchise history last year with this philosophy. SU has still had their best season in 20 years with this philosophy.

Our offense has stunk these past few years, but to me that's more on the coach and the players he's utilizing rather than the philosophy.

We've tried to adopt that philosophy twice in the past 20 years. Both time have resulted in some of the worst offensive performance we've seen(and granted the best season we've had in 20 years). Nick Saban and Bama are playing a different game, focused on NCs. We are just trying to consistently get back to bowl games, re-establish our recruiting, and then we can take it to the next level. Saban hand picks his team. We can't recruit the guys right now to run such an offense with consistent success(1 successful year out of 9 using those philosophies). So what do you next? You formulate the best possible offense based on the strengths of your team. Maybe 'can't' isn't the right word, but simply unable to in our current state.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We've tried to adopt that philosophy twice in the past 20 years. Both time have resulted in some of the worst offensive performance we've seen(and granted the best season we've had in 20 years). Nick Saban and Bama are playing a different game, focused on NCs. We are just trying to consistently get back to bowl games, re-establish our recruiting, and then we can take it to the next level. Saban hand picks his team. We can't recruit the guys right now to run such an offense with consistent success(1 successful year out of 9 using those philosophies). So what do you next? You formulate the best possible offense based on the strengths of your team. Maybe 'can't' isn't the right word, but simply unable to in our current state.

Yes we're in a different world than them but Nick Saban is the best coach in college football and coaches in the toughest conference. You don't think we shouldn't listen a little bit to what he says wins football games? Wake Forest also has similar recruiting challenges as SU and they still can put up some points every year.

 

[Pyle]

Yes we're in a different world than them but Nick Saban is the best coach in college football and coaches in the toughest conference. You don't think we shouldn't listen a little bit to what he says wins football games? Wake Forest also has similar recruiting challenges as SU and they still can put up some points every year.

You sure about that last statement?

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There's a boatload more talent coming out of their home state than there is ours. Yes they compete with NC, Duke, etc to get those guys however NYS's top players would rank around 50 in that state. It's not the same, it never has been. NYS football sucks and it kills our recruiting, at least since P was fired and NJ dried up.

 

[syrBossHogg]

You sure about that last statement?

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There's a boatload more talent coming out of their home state than there is ours. Yes they compete with NC, Duke, etc to get those guys however NYS's top players would rank around 50 in that state. It's not the same, it never has been. NYS football sucks and it kills our recruiting, at least since P was fired and NJ dried up.

Actually I am, we have out-recruit them despite having less in-state talent and multiple losing seasons. Despite that, they have managed to have better offenses recently.

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[Pyle]

Your citing Greg Robinsons offense as proof of anything at all made my eyes glaze over.

Is your prevailing thought that every other team in college football can figure out a pass 1st modern football approach but we can’t?!

You better unglaze those eyes because those who don't learn from their past mistakes are doomed to repeat them. I brought up Gerg because the whole reason he was hired was to fulfill this fan wish, high-flying offense in the dome, it tanked. Remove the Dungey factor and Dino's offense has also tanked. It hasn't worked for any QB on the roster outside of Dungey. Maybe for a game here or there but the overall body of work without ED is garbage.

My prevailing thought is that we have not been able to attract the kind of talent to run those systems against other P5 teams even with coaches dedicated to those systems, even with career numbers for guys who ran those systems like Dungey, AET, and Ish. If we cant' consistently bring in those types of guys every year then we are doomed to have seasons where we can't pass for a TD in two OOC games. Score 7 points against the likes of Rutgers and have 25k people in the stands when conference play opens.

 

[djorange1989]

At least he didn't freaking quit like our current HC seems to have a tendency to do. I'd rather have a coach who fights until the end. Yeah sure there's a fine line in there but if he put in all the 2nd stringers down 28 with 8 to go half of this board would probably be complaining that he quit on the team. 5 and under to go I get it, but over 1/2 a quarter to play, you still play your starters, that is my opinion, you are welcome to yours.

Shafer pulled the same punt routine in a close game against Pitt if my memory serves. and no one is saying Shafer should have pulled all his starters in the Louisville game, just the freshman QB who almost had his head taken off several weeks earlier and had his whole career ahead of him. As was pointed out, Shafer pulled him the week before against FSU and should have done it again. Not defending Dino in general, he needs to go if things don't turn around the rest of this season and his punt call last week was abysmal. I have posted it many times, Dino 2019-2021 is not the guy we hired and the guy who was our coach from 2015-2018.