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Will Covid force Notre Dame to join ACC as a full member?

nzm136

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I'm sure that there is some percentage of students in Mass that would be interested in attending a large collegiate sport university.
I’m certain that the above is true for the city of San Diego, too, but I’m liking SDSU’s chances of not joining the Big Ten in the foreseeable future.

PSU knows their demographic.
 

TerryD

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Hate to paint myself as some level of an ND apologist, as I am not.
But "ND is about money only" narrative is at best shallow/lazy and at worst, false. It just is.

If ND were only about money, would they not have joined the Big 10 about 25 years ago (mid 90s)? Their contract on NBC costs them millions every year compared to those in conferences, especially the B10. Play that back through time. ND's independence has likely "cost" them hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't have the particulars, but I do know enough to know that you are way, way off base.

Syracuse, like every other ACC member, should hope that ND begins to prioritize money more than they have. If they do, they'll be joining our conference.
So, I hope you're right in time, but to date, ... you're not.

Yeah, it is total . Always has been.

ND makes $15-22 million from NBC, $6.8 million from ACC/ESPN.

Purdue makes about what, $55 million in the Big Ten?
 

WickedOrange

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I'm sure that there is some percentage of students in Mass that would be interested in attending a large collegiate sport university.

You are really hell-bent on driving this thread into a ditch.
 

longtimefan

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Yeah, it is total . Always has been.

ND makes $15-22 million from NBC, $6.8 million from ACC/ESPN.

Purdue makes about what, $55 million in the Big Ten?
But you forgot about the Tithing. Or is that BYU? ;)
 

orangecuse

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Hate to paint myself as some level of an ND apologist, as I am not.
But "ND is about money only" narrative is at best shallow/lazy and at worst, false. It just is.

If ND were only about money, would they not have joined the Big 10 about 25 years ago (mid 90s)? Their contract on NBC costs them millions every year compared to those in conferences, especially the B10. Play that back through time. ND's independence has likely "cost" them hundreds of millions of dollars. I don't have the particulars, but I do know enough to know that you are way, way off base.

Syracuse, like every other ACC member, should hope that ND begins to prioritize money more than they have. If they do, they'll be joining our conference.
So, I hope you're right in time, but to date, ... you're not.

Hate to paint myself as some level of writing proficiency, as I am not.
But, if you're going to make a specific reference by placing someone’s words into an actual quote, you should understand that it is verbatim. The words in quotations are your own, not exactly mine as you falsely implied. English 101. Lazy at best, and at worst, sheer ignorance. It just is.

Pride is the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. So, ironically, as it relates to joining the B1G, the institution of hypocrisy will cut off their nose to spite their face.
 

CousCuse

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Maybe 10%, maybe 5%.
That sounds reasonable. The only one of those type of institutions in the northeast is PSU, so by default, they would get most of them.
 

Cuse#1

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It had nothing to do with new eyeballs, and it only directly involved the BTN.

It was about keeping PSU’s fans in the Big Ten, and Penn State’s desire to have more exposure where they recruit students and players (look at their alumni maps and look at how many recruits they get out of East PA, NJ, and DMV).

The nitwits used the ACC as leverage to pull the Big “Ten” east. And, so long as the ACC would take PS”U,” and so long as the ACC remains attractive to PSU, the B1G will have you bend to their demands to the extent that they want a cut of PSU money.

Given the ACC isn’t going anywhere, PSU will continue to be an ACC target, and the cult will remain huge and cultish, the B1G will take whatever PSU gives them, they’ll smile, and they’ll ask for more.
Well I agree with some of the things that you said but you can’t tell me that Maryland and Rutger’s locations had nothing to do with them getting into the conference! Conference expansion mostly 90% of the time revolves around money and there is a lot of potential with those two teams in terms of money that’s it, I mean the Big Ten is not stupid
 

SU94

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Hate to paint myself as some level of writing proficiency, as I am not.
But, if you're going to make a specific reference by placing someone’s words into an actual quote, you should understand that it is verbatim. The words in quotations are your own, not exactly mine as you falsely implied. English 101. Lazy at best, and at worst, sheer ignorance. It just is.

Pride is the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins. So, ironically, as it relates to joining the B1G, the institution of hypocrisy will cut off their nose to spite their face.
Sorry. Did not realize I was handing in my collegiate thesis and needed to be grammatically sound. I’ll work in footnotes next time. But your point? Wasn’t it that ND is motivated by money? If it was, we chronicled just how wrong you were.
 

nzm136

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Well I agree with some of the things that you said but you can’t tell me that Maryland and Rutger’s locations had nothing to do with them getting into the conference! Conference expansion mostly 90% of the time revolves around money and there is a lot of potential with those two teams in terms of money that’s it, I mean the Big Ten is not stupid
Oh, their locations mattered a great deal. Where do you think PSU alums live? Where do you think their donor base is? (See an alumni map and overlay that with a map of average salaries/costs of living.) Where do you think they recruit athletes? RU and UMD were absolutely picked because of location.

And money was absolutely why the B1G cared. PSU brings mountains of cash into the conference, and risking that cash would have been a lot to ask. Risking that cash in favor of a rival would have been even more. Imagine if the B1G lost PSU to the ACC. Think of how much that loss would have closed the conference profitability gap. Even “worse,” imagine if adding PSU was enough to get ND to join the ACC. Imagine how much the gap would have closed then.

Where your analysis falls short is your assumption that RU brings in more money than they cost the conference and/or have the realistic potential of bringing in more than they cost. They don’t, and it’s not close. They don’t have a strong fan following, which means few people watch their games (little money from advertisements), and GRE people care about having access to their content (little money from carriage fees). Since they don’t create much value for media partners, they don’t create a reason for those partners to pay the B1G much more. Since the B1G pays them a lot, but doesn’t get paid a lot for having them, the conference loses money on them, but for their talent for keeping a conference bread winner around. The same is probably true for UMD, but RU is the clearer example.
 
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nzm136

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That sounds reasonable. The only one of those type of institutions in the northeast is PSU, so by default, they would get most of them.
Wait. Are you now arguing that Amherst and/or it’s surrounding area is going to be the next great recruiting opportunity for Penn State? If so, good grief...
 

Cuse#1

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Oh, their locations mattered a great deal. Where do you think PSU alums live? Where do you think their donor base is? (See an alumni map and overlay that with a map of average salaries/costs of living.) Where do you think they recruit athletes? RU and UMD were absolutely picked because of location.

And money was absolutely why the B1G cared. PSU brings mountains of cash into the conference, and risking that cash would have been a lot to ask. Risking that cash in favor of a rival would have been even more. Imagine if the B1G lost PSU to the ACC. Think of how much that loss would have closed the conference profitability gap. Even “worse,” imagine if adding PSU was enough to get ND to join the ACC. Imagine how much the gap would have closed then.

Where your analysis falls short is your assumption that RU brings in more money than they cost the conference and/or have the realistic potential of bringing in more than they cost. They don’t, and it’s not close. They don’t have a strong fan following, which means few people watch their games (little money from advertisements), and GRE people care about having access to their content (little money from carriage fees). Since they don’t create much value for media partners, they don’t create a reason for those partners to pay the B1G much more. Since the B1G pays them a lot, but doesn’t get paid a lot for having them, the conference loses money on them, but for their talent for keeping a conference bread winner around. The same is probably true for UMD, but RU is the clearer example.
Well I might have missed spoke but when I said their locations I meant their locations that’s pretty much what got them into the conference
 

Cuse#1

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Well I might have missed spoke but when I said their locations I meant their locations that’s pretty much what got them into the conference
Listen I despise Rutgers! Maryland I don’t really care much about at all but Rutgers I hate their football team, their coach, the whole obnoxious Fanbase so I wasn’t sticking up for them in any way shape or form. I was just simply stating that them being in such a heavily populated area I like New York City, Connecticut, & New Jersey Is pretty much what got them into the big ten. Most of the things that you just stated i agree with
 

nzm136

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Listen I despise Rutgers! Maryland I don’t really care much about at all but Rutgers I hate their football team, their coach, the whole obnoxious Fanbase so I wasn’t sticking up for them in any way shape or form. I was just simply stating that them being in such a heavily populated area I like New York City, Connecticut, & New Jersey Is pretty much what got them into the big ten. Most of the things that you just stated i agree with
I get what you’re saying. I just disagree with what I think is your basic premise, which is that being in NYC/DMV is a goldmine for the BTN because of the huge amount of cable boxes.

Most people see the huge populations and argue that Price x Quantity = Revenue. Therefore adding those schools skyrockets revenue, as the Q part of the equation goes through the roof.

My belief is that the above is only simplistic. Prices are set through supply and demand. The per school supply of content is reasonably fixed. (I think per school supply is the relevant variable, as the end revenue will be equally divided up by the schools in the conference.) RU athletics, however, doesn’t generate demand. That combination of stable per unit supply and decreased per unit demand means the price decreases.

Then the calculation becomes lower carriage fee x more subscribers = new revenue

The carriage rate is really a weighted average of expected demand. The cable company has to agree to pay the network the rate, but the cable company is just the middle man. It will only agree to pay the network if it thinks that it can pass the cost on to consumers. Otherwise it would be willingly agreeing to lose money, which isn’t likely in an arm’s length transaction.

Given that RU was coming from a conference with a very low TV payout, there’s a very strong reason to believe that my suspicious are correct that they do not inspire a strong demand for their product in NYC. Otherwise, the BIG EAST/AAC would have been able to cash in on it (and their attendance wouldn’t be terrible).

The other way networks make money is through advertising, but again, advertisers will only pay what the exposure is worth to them. That amount is more or less “viewers * increased likelihood of purchase * margin.” “Increases likelihood of purchase“ and “margin“ are mostly in the advertiser’s hands, but the “viewers” variable is the responsibility of the network. Since few people watch RU athletics, they don’t generate much revenue on that front, either.

Hopefully the above debunks the myth that RU was a good add for growing BTN revenue. It wasn’t. It was a good add for protecting BTN revenue because it kept Penn State in the conference.
 
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