Will Syracuse Football Ever Catch a Break?

[chugg21]

Yep. Thats like saying UCLA is still a top 5 college hoops brand.

Hell, they went to the final four 3 times in the last decade. We finished in the top 20 once this century. More like saying Houston is a top 5 college hoops brand.

 

[OrangePA]

Yep. Thats like saying UCLA is still a top 5 college hoops brand.

No it's not because I didn't say that Syracuse University is a "top five" football brand.

I said it still has a strong football brand.

Read the post.

And by the way, UCLA is still a strong college basketball brand.

Also, where do you live?

 

[OrangePA]

Only matters what recruits think. For sports writers who can envision the entire history of college football, we are a strong brand. Current HS prospects in general are not such scholars of the game.

They are educated on the program.

They know about Brown, Davis, Little, McNabb, Harrison, Freeney and all the rest.

 

[Toga]

Well apparently Daoust is staying.

 

[chugg21]

They are educated on the program.

They know about Brown, Davis, Little, McNabb, Harrison, Freeney and all the rest.

I just don't see how any of them would possibly matter outside of Ernie & Jim who are historical figures. No 18 year old recruit cares at all about going to the school that Marvin Harrison or Dwight Freeney played at unless maybe they came from the same high school or have some type of relationship with them. NC State actually destroys us in recent NFL talent with Philip Rivers alone, then add #1 overall pick Mario Williams on top of that.

 

[OrangePA]

I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate Syracuse as a brand.

Historically it has a strong brand in football - but things change. It's been about 20 years since we had a strong team consistently. That's a long, long time.

You're splitting hairs that I'm not presenting.

There is a difference between a strong brand and a "strong team consistently" or a recent won-loss record.

There are a lot of Syracuse names that are still very relevant in the game.

Freeney graduated in 2001. McNabb in 1999. Harrison in 1996. Bulluck in the early 2000s?

Arthur Jones and Chandler Jones in the past six years. J. McClain, Justin Pugh, Shamarko Thomas and even Ryan Nassib are relevant names.

And guys like Coughlin, Edsall, Marrone and others maintain the Syracuse Football Brand.

This self-hating or self-denigrating talk that I see on this board is striking to me.

The Syracuse Football Program is legendary and is and will be a strong brand - far stronger than NC State or Duke or Rutgers or North Carolina.

If you disagree, that's your issue. But for me I understand and truly appreciate what we have.

 

[tep624]

SU fans consider this lateral. Most outside of CNY would not. This is a step up for George, and a slap in the face to us at the same time.

What Radar is NC State on outside of Raleigh?

Unless a team is a national brand or has a recent history of being VERY successful, if you get outside their local area, people aren't going to know a whole lot about them. I can assure you in So Cal, people don't know a thing about SU Football but they certainly don't know a thing about NC State football either.

He left one mediocre ACC program for another, for the same role. That's the definition of a lateral move.

 

[Macky44]

Except of course when you mention McNabb, Harrison, Freeney, Coughlin, Csonka, Johnston, Jim Brown and others.

For those who truly watch college football, Syracuse University is still a solid brand.

A stronger brand than NC State.

NC State isnt even close to the level of brand in regards to college football. Brand isn't a one year status...it's built over a long period of time. Anyone over the age of 19 care to chime in that has seen Syracuse as a northeast power up until 2002? Every major program goes through cycles. Don't forget... NFL.com ranked Syracuse as #8 all time for college football factories for the NFL.

8) Syracuse
7) Penn State
6) Alabama
5) Michigan
4) Ohio State
3) Notre Dame
2) Miami
1) USC

The rankings are based on history, influential players, NFL players ( HOF, Pro Bowl, drafted,etc)-
and longevity.
The list goes back to the early 20th century, so Jim Brown, Czonka, Monk, McNabb et al,
and their impact on the NFL are counted.

I think it's a great achievement, & really puts our program's status in perspective.

 

[Macky44]

You're splitting hairs that I'm not presenting.

There is a difference between a strong brand and a "strong team consistently" or a recent won-loss record.

There are a lot of Syracuse names that are still very relevant in the game.

Freeney graduated in 2001. McNabb in 1999. Harrison in 1996. Bulluck in the early 2000s?

Arthur Jones and Chandler Jones in the past six years. J. McClain, Justin Pugh, Shamarko Thomas and even Ryan Nassib are relevant names.

And guys like Coughlin, Edsall, Marrone and others maintain the Syracuse Football Brand.

This self-hating or self-denigrating talk that I see on this board is striking to me.

The Syracuse Football Program is legendary and is and will be a strong brand - far stronger than NC State or Duke or Rutgers or North Carolina.

If you disagree, that's your issue. But for me I understand and truly appreciate what we have.

Syracuse isn't Army in terms of how long its been since we were bigtime. Do we need to improve quickly? Of course. Noone is debating that. We need to turn things around immediately, and once that happens it will be like GRob never happened.

 

[cpatrocks]

I can't believe there is even an argument about this.

The guy got demoted, said some stupid stuff to the media right after the demotion and was kept on the staff presumably because of the recruits he had in the pipeline. He left because he was still upset about the demotion not because the new job was any better.

:end thread:

 

[PeteCalvin]

Sometimes you make your own "luck". If you take chances on borderline qualifies, some aren't going to make it. When you have a ceiling for coaching salaries, some hires are going to excel and be coveted by other schools, some aren't going to deliver and will need to be moved. When you neglect facilities for decades, you fall behind your peers and it takes a while to catch back up.

SU is in the ACC so let's not pretend like there is no hope for the future. Hopefully the next AD will have a better understanding of building a football program besides following the USC model.

Neglect facilities?! Sheesh. Get a life!

 

[OrangePA]

I just don't see how any of them would possibly matter outside of Ernie & Jim who are historical figures. No 18 year old recruit cares at all about going to the school that Marvin Harrison or Dwight Freeney played at unless maybe they came from the same high school or have some type of relationship with them. NC State actually destroys us in recent NFL talent with Philip Rivers alone, then add #1 overall pick Mario Williams on top of that.

McNabb is better than Rivers. Freeney is better than Williams. Harrison may be one of the top three of all time.

How many Fiesta, Orange, Gator and Cotton Bowls has NC State played?

By the way, how old are you anyway?

What do you know about how recruit thinks?

Are you being recruited to a major college football program?

 

[OburgOrange]

I mean, seriously. This has gotten out of hand for some time now.

Going on 15 years

 

[Stern]

Only matters what recruits think. For sports writers who can envision the entire history of college football, we are a strong brand. Current HS prospects in general are not such scholars of the game.

Exactly!! Totally agree. These 18 year old kids are into video games. No video game these days have Jim Brown or McNabb or Davis or Little on it. High School kids have the attention span of about 10 seconds these days and they aren't researching the storied history of college football programs. They tune to ESPN, see what teams are winning big, what teams are in big bowls, what teams are sending guys to the NFL and getting drafted. That's what gets those kids pumped up. Not sitting and going through 20-50 year old YouTube clips of a time long long ago.

There is always the exception to the rule, but the average to great college football players being recruited don't care about SU's history from the 50's, 60's 70's, 80's, and into the 90's...from a time before they were born! 18 year olds being recruited today were born in 1997. They were 1 or 2 when McNabb played his last game at SU. When they think of McNabb they think of Soup commercials, him fighting with TO in the press, and him throwing up in the Super Bowl, not his 4 years at Syracuse.

 

[rrlbees]

McNabb is better than Rivers. Freeney is better than Williams. Harrison may be one of the top three of all time. How many Fiesta, Orange, Gator and Cotton Bowls has NC State played? By the way, how old are you anyway? What do you know about how recruit thinks? Are you being recruited to a major college football program?

You're right. NCSt does not carry the national brand that SU does. I travel a lot and people may know SU basketball more but they know SU football too. Even if they only ask if we're going to be better this year or if they ask if we'll ever get back to where we were. Looking at the latest numbers, SU is 33rd nationally in merchandise sales. Basketball may drive it but I am sure football plays a role. NCSt doesn't even appear in the rankings which goes to 75. Even Rutgers is in the top 75

 

[javadoc]

Exactly!! Totally agree. These 18 year old kids are into video games. No video game these days have Jim Brown or McNabb or Davis or Little on it. High School kids have the attention span of about 10 seconds these days and they aren't researching the storied history of college football programs. They tune to ESPN, see what teams are winning big, what teams are in big bowls, what teams are sending guys to the NFL and getting drafted. That's what gets those kids pumped up. Not sitting and going through 20-50 year old YouTube clips of a time long long ago.

Some years ago, probably in the 2007-2008 time frame, I was on a commuter jet on a business trip, and this enormous guy gets on and sits across the aisle from me - he barely fit into the seat. I was wearing some SU gear and the guy strikes up a conversation. I don't recall his name, but he had played DT at Kansas. We talked hoops, and then when it came to football, he said, "They have no football at Syracuse." Bluntly, matter-of-factly, but decisively. And that is probably the take that most current HS kids have about us. I'm sure it's getting better - slowly - and for a rare few "The Express" may have given our program a status boost, as has been stated by a couple of our prospects. So much work still to do, though.

 

[MSOrange]

Some years ago, probably in the 2007-2008 time frame, I was on a commuter jet on a business trip, and this enormous guy gets on and sits across the aisle from me - he barely fit into the seat. I was wearing some SU gear and the guy strikes up a conversation. I don't recall his name, but he had played DT at Kansas. We talked hoops, and then when it came to football, he said, "They have no football at Syracuse." Bluntly, matter-of-factly, but decisively. And that is probably the take that most current HS kids have about us. I'm sure it's getting better - slowly - and for a rare few "The Express" may have given our program a status boost, as has been stated by a couple of our prospects. So much work still to do, though.

That's an interesting story and I agree we have work to do to get our reputation back. Yet quite ironic that a kid that played at Kansas is dissing our football program.

 

[nccusefan]

they may or may not be, but Im telling you... get outside of CNY and SU football is not really even on any type of radar.

Depends on how old they are. I'll only speak for North Carolina where I live. If you talk to anyone over the age of 30 they have a great deal of respect fo Syracuse football and its history. If you talk to a 18 year old their perception isn't so good. A couple good seasons and a return to the top 25 can quickly change that perception with the younger kids.

 

[nccusefan]

Except of course when you mention McNabb, Harrison, Freeney, Coughlin, Csonka, Johnston, Jim Brown and others.

For those who truly watch college football, Syracuse University is still a solid brand.

A stronger brand than NC State.

Only USC, ND, Ohio State, Michigan, and Pitt have more NFL Hall Of Famers

 

[Stern]

Some years ago, probably in the 2007-2008 time frame, I was on a commuter jet on a business trip, and this enormous guy gets on and sits across the aisle from me - he barely fit into the seat. I was wearing some SU gear and the guy strikes up a conversation. I don't recall his name, but he had played DT at Kansas. We talked hoops, and then when it came to football, he said, "They have no football at Syracuse." Bluntly, matter-of-factly, but decisively. And that is probably the take that most current HS kids have about us. I'm sure it's getting better - slowly - and for a rare few "The Express" may have given our program a status boost, as has been stated by a couple of our prospects. So much work still to do, though.

I am not surprised at all by your story. Unless you are around teenagers or kids in their early 20's you don't truly understand the mindset they have these days. If you think they are comparing SU's football history from decades gone by to other schools you are sadly mistaken. Their history is what happened this past season and what they saw on ESPN the other night. That's as far back as most go.

 

[FAL]

I am not surprised at all by your story. Unless you are around teenagers or kids in their early 20's you don't truly understand the mindset they have these days. If you think they are comparing SU's football history from decades gone by to other schools you are sadly mistaken. Their history is what happened this past season and what they saw on ESPN the other night. That's as far back as most go.

Ah-h-h! Another benefit of The Age of Instant Gratification!

 

[xc84]

Its barely a blip even in Buffalo.

Buffalo knows nothing beyond the Sabres and Bills. It's not just SU...they laugh when you even mention college football. And basketball in general is a sport few care about. I lived there for 3 years and that was my experience.

 

[xc84]

I just don't see how any of them would possibly matter outside of Ernie & Jim who are historical figures. No 18 year old recruit cares at all about going to the school that Marvin Harrison or Dwight Freeney played at unless maybe they came from the same high school or have some type of relationship with them. NC State actually destroys us in recent NFL talent with Philip Rivers alone, then add #1 overall pick Mario Williams on top of that.

I disagree. I think a LOT of people (outside of Syracuse fans) don't know where McNabb, Harrison, Freeney, Jones X 2, etc. went to school. When you tell them, they are surprised and impressed. I remember talking to a friend who is an NC fan he was talking up LT a lot. I asked if LT is the best player to come out of NC and he looked at me like I was a complete fool for not knowing. Then I mentioned Brown, Davis, Csonka, Mackey, Nance, Freeney, McNabb, Harrison and I could see the surprise in his face and the understanding that with so many great ones, it's not as easy to pick a favorite.

 

[xc84]

I think most folks in the country would be surprised to learn that either school has a football team.

That's where it is out job to educate. Once you start naming names, the light bulb goes on.

 

[elimunelson]

are we arguing if Syracuse is a better "brand" than NC State? you guys crazy? Of course it is no matter what drives it people care about Syracuse. It's a national brand for sure. Football isn't helping by any means but it doesn't take away from the fact that the school matters nationally. NC State is a fringe brand that has 1-2 major moments that people can recall (Valvano is really the only one that I remember).

SU football will be relevant again (not the brand) when it decides to hire someone who can do a quick turnaround job. Shafer isn't the guy. I'm holding my nose but Lane Kiffin is the guy that would open the nation's eyes if we went and hired him even if he lasted for a dream job amt of time (inside 4 years). Kiffin makes the nation's eye brows rise good/bad/indifferent. If not Kiffin then Tressel. It needs to be someone like that (finances be damned) for people to immediately take notice that SU football is open for business.