Wisconsin Nigel Hates suing NCAA for player pay

[dasher]

How much would we have to pay Chino? Or Patterson? Would each school pay the same or would they be allowed to pay what they want? Would the woman's team get paid as well? How about the field hockey team? If schools start having to pay players, schools will start dropping non revenue sports. Maybe that's okay. Why would you have a non revenue sport if you had to pay the players? Why would you spend money on non revenue sports if your "profit" on revenue sports was cut by both having to pay the players and by spending on non revenue sports?

 

[NYCSUGrad]

How much would we have to pay Chino? Or Patterson? Would each school pay the same or would they be allowed to pay what they want? Would the woman's team get paid as well? How about the field hockey team? If schools start having to pay players, schools will start dropping non revenue sports. Maybe that's okay. Why would you have a non revenue sport if you had to pay the players? Why would you spend money on non revenue sports if your "profit" on revenue sports was cut by both having to pay the players and by spending on non revenue sports?

Prestige. SU women's basketball is starting to come into its own under Coach Q, as are several of the other women's teams (Plus Title IX isn't going away.). They may not draw like UConn does but they'll start getting 6-8,000 a game and more for big match ups. Women's lacrosse will get a smaller percentage of what the men draw, track and field they sometimes compete together etc

Non revenue sports, the really obscure ones like golf (which we don't have) may become club sports and that's fine.

 

[cuse10]

How much would we have to pay Chino? Or Patterson? Would each school pay the same or would they be allowed to pay what they want? Would the woman's team get paid as well? How about the field hockey team? If schools start having to pay players, schools will start dropping non revenue sports. Maybe that's okay. Why would you have a non revenue sport if you had to pay the players? Why would you spend money on non revenue sports if your "profit" on revenue sports was cut by both having to pay the players and by spending on non revenue sports?

These are businesses. Drop non-revenue sports. Football and basketball (mostly black students) subsidize non-revenue sports which are played large in part by white students. There's the racial dynamic to this as well.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

These are businesses. Drop non-revenue sports. Football and basketball (mostly black students) subsidize non-revenue sports which are played large in part by white students. There's the racial dynamic to this as well.

Or, keep all your sports and the current scholarship arrangements and just let the student athletes making money from their own name and likeness.

 

[shantydaze]

But then the NCAA would only make 3.9 bazillion dollars instead of 4 bazillion dollars and they'd be very sad.

The NCAA doesn't "make" money in the traditional sense. It is a non-profit organization that distributes its net profits to the member schools through a variety of programs. The NCAA will never pay players, it would be the responsibility of the schools. Some of the money will come through the NCAA distributions, to be sure, but it will require the universities to make hard decisions as to which sports to take money away from to pay the players.

 

[shantydaze]

Or, keep all your sports and the current scholarship arrangements and just let the student athletes making money from their own name and likeness.

This type of arrangement could so easily be abused. What would stop $EC boosters from paying players large amounts of $$$$ for one autograph? Would it bother you if the top SU recruits went to FSU or Miami because their boosters were willing to pay more for personality rights?

 

[Hoo's That]

One big problem he faces is that Wisconsin is a state school and the section of the labor laws that was used to get employee status for the players at the private schools doesn't apply. The section on the Federal government's imposing rules on the states to cover their employees is much stricter and what he argues could face a higher threshold that the NWern suit.

 

[shantydaze]

Ah yes, one of the education and opportunity guys. Players are often pigeonholed into majors to remain eligible and receive an education that that doesn't benefit them after college. At Syracuse, this is the Child and Family Studies major or CRS. That opportunity can be taken away from them at any time. They can be dismissed for trivial reasons or when a new coach comes in and doesn't see the player as a fit for his team.

At Wisconsin, it is Agricultural Journalism, which was recently renamed Life Sciences Communication. Hayes, however, is an athlete that is taking advantage of his paid education and will be graduating with a Business Finance Degree.

I have always wondered whether it makes sense to remove the income tax exemption from scholarships. Perhaps people would have a better understanding of the cost of a "free" education if they were required to report it (tuition, board, food, books, stipend, tutors, etc.) as income. Of course, this would skew against private universities such as SU or out of state students at public universities due to the higher tuition being paid by the scholarships.

 

[JrodCuse]

Why does he hate suing the NCAA?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This type of arrangement could so easily be abused. What would stop $EC boosters from paying players large amounts of $$$$ for one autograph? Would it bother you if the top SU recruits went to FSU or Miami because their boosters were willing to pay more for personality rights?

To answer your first question - nothing, and that's fine.

To answer your second question - it wouldn't bother me. This issue is bigger than Syracuse.

 

[upperdeck]

How much would we have to pay Chino? Or Patterson? Would each school pay the same or would they be allowed to pay what they want? Would the woman's team get paid as well? How about the field hockey team? If schools start having to pay players, schools will start dropping non revenue sports. Maybe that's okay. Why would you have a non revenue sport if you had to pay the players? Why would you spend money on non revenue sports if your "profit" on revenue sports was cut by both having to pay the players and by spending on non revenue sports?

the bigger issue why have sports at all then.. drop them all problem goes away.

 

[Hoo's That]

This type of arrangement could so easily be abused. What would stop $EC boosters from paying players large amounts of $$$$ for one autograph? Would it bother you if the top SU recruits went to FSU or Miami because their boosters were willing to pay more for personality rights?

This all goes back to the fact of the NBA and NFL's not having a minor league structure like baseball has. At least 80% (I'll be generous) of the P-5 bball and football players could not get into their schools as regular applicants. I don't think most of them would be in college if the NBA and NFL had viable minor leagues.

 

[Hoo's That]

the bigger issue why have sports at all then.. drop them all problem goes away.

US, and to some extent Canadian, universities are the only ones in the world who do sports at this level. That's a comment in and of itself. Japanese university-level baseball may be near to it in prestige, but the money involved doesn't come anywhere close.

 

[Cowtown]

Ah yes, one of the education and opportunity guys. Players are often pigeonholed into majors to remain eligible and receive an education that that doesn't benefit them after college. At Syracuse, this is the Child and Family Studies major or CRS. That opportunity can be taken away from them at any time. They can be dismissed for trivial reasons or when a new coach comes in and doesn't see the player as a fit for his team.

Is that better than a player who accepts a scholarship with absolutely no intention to graduate? :noidea:

I think it's almost scandalous how much money the schools and NCAA take in without some form of compensation going directly to the players. I'm reminded of a presser I saw in which a reporter questioned Jim Calhoun on the legitimacy of sports teams in the academic world, and Calhoun shut him up by pointing out, "My program brings in $12 million a year to the school." We know not every school's team brings in that much, but some others bring in more. I'd like to see Alabama football's numbers. I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be a more equitable solution. I was a student with absolutely no money in my pocket (six kids in the family and both parents working) while others had cars and more. So I know what it's like, and it was often quite embarrassing.

And anyway, Hayes is nobody's fool. I'd be willing to bet he's already met his degree requirements. He also knows he's going to make more playing in the NBA than he'll ever get from a lawsuit like this. He's using his current position, place and time to bring attention to the situation, and he's doing it less for himself than for others. I hope a workable solution is found, and I wouldn't mind seeing the haughty, arrogant NCAA humbled by this.

 

[shantydaze]

Is that better than a player who accepts a scholarship with absolutely no intention to graduate? :noidea:

I think it's almost scandalous how much money the schools and NCAA take in without some form of compensation going directly to the players. I'm reminded of a presser I saw in which a reporter questioned Jim Calhoun on the legitimacy of sports teams in the academic world, and Calhoun shut him up by pointing out, "My program brings in $12 million a year to the school." We know not every school's team brings in that much, but some others bring in more. I'd like to see Alabama football's numbers. I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be a more equitable solution. I was a student with absolutely no money in my pocket (six kids in the family and both parents working) while others had cars and more. So I know what it's like, and it was often quite embarrassing.

And anyway, Hayes is nobody's fool. I'd be willing to bet he's already met his degree requirements. He also knows he's going to make more playing in the NBA than he'll ever get from a lawsuit like this. He's using his current position, place and time to bring attention to the situation, and he's doing it less for himself than for others. I hope a workable solution is found, and I wouldn't mind seeing the haughty, arrogant NCAA humbled by this.

The issue is not that the players do not receive "some form of compensation." They receive numerous types of compensation, included a cash payment, related to their scholarships and academic assistance. Rather, the issue is that the players' believe they do not receive enough compensation.

Here is a good article indicating why and how Hayes got involved in the lawsuit.

 

[djcon57]

To answer your first question - nothing, and that's fine.

To answer your second question - it wouldn't bother me. This issue is bigger than Syracuse.

Exactly.

As said many times, to respond to the issue at hand with "Syracuse wouldn't be as good at sports" tells me where you are when thinking about this issue.

Giving them the ability to use their likeness and name is without a doubt the most fair way TO THE PLAYERS OF ALL SPORTS and the schools wouldn't have to take a dime out of their allegedly in the red ad's.

 

[shantydaze]

Exactly.

As said many times, to respond to the issue at hand with "Syracuse wouldn't be as good at sports" tells me where you are when thinking about this issue.

Giving them the ability to use their likeness and name is without a doubt the most fair way TO THE PLAYERS OF ALL SPORTS and the schools wouldn't have to take a dime out of their allegedly in the red ad's.

The issue is not specifically whether SU would benefit or suffer from such a change, rather it is whether the NCAA's attempt (in theory) to have a level playing field for all of its member schools should be thrown out the window.

 

[djcon57]

The issue is not specifically whether SU would benefit or suffer from such a change, rather it is whether the NCAA's attempt (in theory) to have a level playing field for all of its member schools should be thrown out the window.

Are we to assume that it's currently a level playing field?

Like Syracuse and Siena have the same chance each year to recruit the best players?

 

[Hoo's That]

Are we to assume that it's currently a level playing field?

Like Syracuse and Siena have the same chance each year to recruit the best players?

No, they don't, but for reasons other than someone's passing out money. Siena's chances of recruiting a player vs. another MAAC school, or SU's chances vs. dook, for that matter, aren't based on some team's (late edit.) Sugar Daddy passing out cash-filled envelopes "to purchase memorabilia".

 

[shantydaze]

Are we to assume that it's currently a level playing field?

Like Syracuse and Siena have the same chance each year to recruit the best players?

In theory, yes, as both are governed by the same rules.

 

[djcon57]

No, they don't, but for reasons other than someone's passing out money. Siena's chances of recruiting a player vs. another MAAC school, or SU's chances vs. dook, for that matter, aren't aided by a Sugar Daddy passing out cash-filled envelopes "to purchase memorabilia".

Right, Sugar daddy just pays for the facilities race. Or we gonna ignore that?

 

[Hoo's That]

Right, Sugar daddy just pays for the facilities race. Or we gonna ignore that?

The member schools won't allow the NCAA to put a limit on facilities luxuriousness, cost, etc., and only semi-recently was there a vote to ban athletic dorms. Since there are more have-nots than haves, I'm sorta surprised a limitation hasn't come up for a vote. Plus, there is nothing to stop a Sugar Daddy or Mommy to give a check to Siena to buy better facilities. Paul Tudor Jones got a degree in econ from the liberal arts part of UVa; I would assume that Siena teaches econ, too.

 

[djcon57]

The member schools won't allow the NCAA to put a limit on facilities luxuriousness, cost, etc., and only semi-recently was there a vote to ban athletic dorms. Since there are more have-nots than haves, I'm sorta surprised a limitation hasn't come up for a vote. Plus, there is nothing to stop a Sugar Daddy or Mommy to give a check to Siena to buy better facilities. Paul Tudor Jones got a degree in econ from the liberal arts part of UVa; I would assume that Siena teaches econ, too.

Right...so the point about "fairness" isnt really in play. The same luxuries that exist now with rich boosters will exist if the money goes to the players instead of a fancy dorm

 

[orangenirvana]

No, they don't, but for reasons other than someone's passing out money. Siena's chances of recruiting a player vs. another MAAC school, or SU's chances vs. dook, for that matter, aren't based on some team's (late edit.) Sugar Daddy passing out cash-filled envelopes "to purchase memorabilia".

What do you think boosters are?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The issue is not specifically whether SU would benefit or suffer from such a change, rather it is whether the NCAA's attempt (in theory) to have a level playing field for all of its member schools should be thrown out the window.

Again, I think it's bigger than the member schools.

I care more about the athlete than if schools can compete against each other "fairly."