Witchita State... enough already | Syracusefan.com

Witchita State... enough already

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I say enough already because while I do respect what they have done on the court against the competition that is on their schedule (which is impressive no matter how you look at it), the media is going over the top on this team. ESPN for example...

"Perfectly Comfortable"
"Shockers stroll into MVC final"

Well , I hope they are feeling perfectly comfortable and strolling along against the likes of Evansville (200 RPI) and Missouri State (RPI 91). We are now being told to dismiss their schedule because they are worthy of a 1 seed. Fine for the second part of that but dismissing their schedule... horse . Just think, if any other top ten team could feast on the likes of Missouri State, Indiana State, Norther Iowa, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, Bradely, Drake, etc., the only thing that could derail consistent blowout wins is falling asleep at the wheel.

So... that's the credit I give this Witchita State team right now - not falling asleep at the wheel when they very well could have over a long regular season. I really mean that because it's not the competition in the Missouri Valley that is going to beat them but themselves. Therefore, Kudos for not allowing that to happen (truly). However, a one seed and all this talk that about how great they are. No, I can't do that until I see them play a damn top 25 team. How about just one? Of if they really want to get crazy, how about a top 10 team? Now I will say that they do look like a good squad, but again, how can you measure this team?

How can the media and analysts say with all sincerity that this is a great team and well deserving of a one seed when they have played only ONE game ALL year against a top 25 RPI team. I'll state it again... ONE game ALL year against a top 25 RPI team. Even more, they have only played TWO teams in the top 50 RPI (one of which was the one that was a 25 RPI team).

So how can one defend this team and say with all due sincerity that it is truly deserving of a one seed?

1. They control only what they can by beating the teams on their schedule. That is, they can't beat teams who they don't face.

2. They were in the final four last year.

I say horse to both of those flimsy defenses. I for one do give them credit for beating everyone on their schedule in a convincing manner. However, because it is against JV caliber opposition, I just don't think that is worthy of vaulting them to a one seed where there are so many other teams that have been battle tested. The biggest battle test that this team must get is in practice. As for last year, precisely, that was LAST YEAR. Should we get preferential treatment because we were in the final four last year as well? Of course not and we won't. What you did last year means nothing when looking at this year regardless of who was with you at that time and now. You are where you are and it is what it is. Preseason rankings are where that crap comes into play.

Now that I'm all worked up, I'm ready to go watch UNC punch Duke in the face. As for my tirade, sorry Witchita State, you really could be one of the best teams this year (doubt it), however, there is no way anyone knows that right now. You could also be a team squeaking around the top 15-25 mark or worse if you had the competition - but who knows?

Let's just see what you do in the NCAA's and then we will know for sure. Perhaps then, you will have more of a hobble in your step than a comfortable stroll.
 
I have no problem with them getting a one seed. They deserve it. That being said, I don't think they make the final four.

And I think Dook wins tonight.
 
And then, if they do make a deep run, do we simply repeat this disrespect exercise next year?
 
And then, if they do make a deep run, do we simply repeat this disrespect exercise next year?

I don't think you followed me. It's not that I don't respect Witchita State, not at all. As I stated, they COULD be the best team in the country. My point is how the hell can we really know? That is it. I just don't think a team who has only played a single top 25RPI team should be a one seed regardless their record. Soooooo... do we repeat this exercise next year? Perhaps, if the same circumstances are the same. However, they won't be and you know it.
 
Wichita st is last year's Gonzaga. They will end up losing in second round to Kentucky
 
I don't think you followed me. It's not that I don't respect Witchita State, not at all. As I stated, they COULD be the best team in the country. My point is how the hell can we really know? That is it. I just don't think a team who has only played a single top 25RPI team should be a one seed regardless their record. Soooooo... do we repeat this exercise next year? Perhaps, if the same circumstances are the same. However, they won't be and you know it.

You're right, we can't know they are one of the top 4 teams. Ultimately, the tourney will decide the best teams, for better or worse. But, we also don't know that Arizona, Florida, or whoever are the top teams.
 
The problem with the logic is that we are ranked in the Top 10 and are unable to beat Boston College and Georgia Tech at home.
 
The problem with the logic is that we are ranked in the Top 10 and are unable to beat Boston College and Georgia Tech at home.

I was building up to that argument. Thanks for ruining it.
 
I was building up to that argument. Thanks for ruining it.

Once again, you miss the point. It is called a BODY OF WORK not a string of victories against JV caliber teams. Every other team being mentioned for a top 1, 2, 3 seed has a resume that shows big wins (some more than others obviously). Wichita St. however, has NONE.
 
Once again, you miss the point. It is called a BODY OF WORK not a string of victories against JV caliber teams. Every team being mentioned for a top 1, 2 or 3 seed has a resume that shows big wins. Wichita St. however, has NONE.

That's simply your notion of what "body of work" means. I personally would like to see good wins count more than bad losses, especially for bubble teams, but how can one argue that an undefeated record is not a fantastic "body of work"?
 
Its not just the fact you don't lose a few because you play no top 50 teams. Its also that you haven't beaten any. Witchita State hasn't proven they would go even 1-5 instead of 0-6 against top 25 teams. Home or away.

That being said nobody is really unblemised. Outside of florida, its all a matter of perception.
 
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Wichita st is last year's Gonzaga. They will end up losing in second round to Kentucky
Bad comparison. Gonzaga didn't play a bunch of crap competition last season.

#13 Illinois
@#22 Oklahoma State
@#13 Butler

The WCC also had 4 teams with over 20 wins and 2 tournament teams.

Gonzaga 29-2 (NCAA)
St Mary's 26-5 (NCAA)
BYU 21-10 (NIT)
Santa Clara 21-10 (CBI)

The MVC has 3 teams with over 20 wins and will only have 1 tournament team.

Wichita State 33-0 (NCAA)
Indiana State 22-9 (???)
Missouri State 20-11 (???)
 
I'm fine with Wich St. getting a one for being unbeaten against their schedule, but the second that anyone references what they did the previous tournament the argument falls apart. It has to stand on its own merits. Either going unbeaten against that schedule justifies a one seed or it doesn't. That's the whole discussion.
 
Going undefeated...no matter how weak the conference...is some feat.
They deserve a 1 seed.

This is an excellent team.
And Greg Marshall is an excellent coach.
He'll be the first name on the list for every major opening this year.
 
That's simply your notion of what "body of work" means. I personally would like to see good wins count more than bad losses, especially for bubble teams, but how can one argue that an undefeated record is not a fantastic "body of work"?

I'm curious. Why is that? I'm asking because I'm the exact opposite. I think bad losses should count more against you (than good wins for) because you should beat teams you are supposed to beat. Interested in hearing the other side.

44cuse
 
The problem with the logic is that we are ranked in the Top 10 and are unable to beat Boston College and Georgia Tech at home.
Maybe we don't get broken down and have injuries if we got to play exhibition games every night. BC and Ga Tech would finish in the top 5 of their garbage conference.
 
Maybe we don't get broken down and have injuries if we got to play exhibition games every night. BC and Ga Tech would finish in the top 5 of their garbage conference.

The wear and tear argument is valid. Of course no way to know either way. We certainly did seem to spend the very life force of the team in that Duke game, a game the likes of which Wichita State has not played since losing to Louisville last year.
 
I get why they're getting a 1 seed and no one will argue about their resume, even if they probably don't deserve it, but if they lose in the MVC they should take a really large hit.
 
I'm curious. Why is that? I'm asking because I'm the exact opposite. I think bad losses should count more against you (than good wins for) because you should beat teams you are supposed to beat. Interested in hearing the other side.

44cuse

I think that for bubble teams (11-12 seeds), I want to know that you are capable of beating someone good. When you get down to the last few teams, they all have warts. But the point of a tournament is to win it, so those with the best wins should get preference in my view.
But that's really more for the bubble teams.
 
I dont see how you can discount what last year's team did just because it was last year. If you are truly trying to gauge how good this team is and you cannot do it based on who they have played this year, then you have additional information available to you...and by that Im referring to how mostly the same exact team did in last year's tourney. How can you just ignore that? This is a unique situation. An undefeated team largely untested this year, that went to the final four last year, with much the same cast. You have to be willfully ignorant to not incorporate that information.
 
I'm fine with Wich St. getting a one for being unbeaten against their schedule, but the second that anyone references what they did the previous tournament the argument falls apart. It has to stand on its own merits. Either going unbeaten against that schedule justifies a one seed or it doesn't. That's the whole discussion.
There needs to be some merit in that reference because it's one of the ways the committee has to judge how good they are. They have basically the same team that went to the Final Four and in the process beating the teams they did to get there.
 
There needs to be some merit in that reference because it's one of the ways the committee has to judge how good they are. They have basically the same team that went to the Final Four and in the process beating the teams they did to get there.

wrong! i see zero merit. they have lost and added several players to their roster. last year means nothing.
i happen think they should be punished for their weak schedule. send a message to their AD (and all AD'S) to schedule some tougher games next year.no one shouldn't be able to simply cakewalk to a number #1 seed.
and i don't wanna hear "no one will play us!" if they truly want respect and a top seed they can get it done

(ps. if they do get a #1 that bracket should be loaded. the dodgers should face a top 30 opponent every game)
 
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longislandcuse said:
Maybe we don't get broken down and have injuries if we got to play exhibition games every night. BC and Ga Tech would finish in the top 5 of their garbage conference.

I don't think our injuries have anything to do with wear and tear.
 

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