Would you rather have a Jonny Flynn PG or MCW PG?

[Brooky03]

zero defense. Maybe even less than zero

You go too far

 

[kcsu]

Johnny be good.

 

[dasher]

You go too far

Honestly, I was going to say less than zero. Did you ever watch him on the defensive end of the court?

 

[hungrychuck]

Laz Simms

You must mean senior-year Laz Simms. He had a great year.

Still, not sure he'd add a lot to this bunch.

 

[Funk Doc]

I really miss the 3’s in transition and the 3s off that handoff play that him and Rautins used to get.

When he used to start jawing...you knew he was going off for 25 plus! Most passionate Orange player we’ve ever had...and something that we truly have missed. Seems like Moyer has a little of it...but in a less “insult your oppenent” way. When he dunks the ball it really fires the team up! I think his energy could be contagious!

 

[kcsu]

On this team Flynn. We need a guard who can beat his man off the dribble and score.

 

[cuseinseattle]

We all know JB’s zone would prefer MCW for length but for college basketball which would you rather have?

I prefer MCW

 

[midloviking]

I'm down with The General.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

MCW

I don't think you can trust Flynn's mental approach to the game. His athleticism hid how he was wired.

 

[oli44]

MCW

Flynn is the better scorer but I think whatever gap there is between Flynn and MCW as scorers MCW would make up by making Battle , Brissett and the bigs better. And that's before we even get into the whole length at the top of the zone deal.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't think an MCW type would add enough to this team. We don't have anybody that can finish his passes inside.

Flynn would be much better for this team's lack of offense. He could get to the rim anytime.

As for a typical SU team, it would have to depend on the other pieces, as well. MCW probably would fit as the classic SU PG a whole lot better, though Jonny was better.

This team needs a power forward who can shoot and is a scoring threat—give me senior year James Southerland or Tyler Lydon (if he had only stayed for his junior year!) We need to open up the driving lanes for Tyus, Frank and Oshae.

 

[NineOneSeven]

On this team, if we can't get Sherman I'd take Billy Edelin.

Edelin was great but doesn't fit today's game well.

In fact, that entire team doesn't minus having a top NBA scoring player ever.

Two guys off our bench didn't shoot outside the paint. That's absurd looking back.

 

[Orange2389]

Flynn by far. The kid was nasty!

 

[DoctorBombay]

Eddie Moss.

 

[bevosu]

Edelin was great but doesn't fit today's game well.

In fact, that entire team doesn't minus having a top NBA scoring player ever.

Two guys off our bench didn't shoot outside the paint. That's absurd looking back.

True Billy wasn't a 3 point guy, but he was aware enough to not gun, but he could drive and score, or dish, with the best of them.

 

[KevMonstah]

Some of you is crazy. A team that can't break 50 against UND (sans Colson) does not need a
PG who shoots worse than either Howard or Battle, even if he can get 1-2 more rebs and 1
more steal. From orangehoops:

MCW (1 starring year): 39.3% FG, 29.2% 3FG, 11.9 ppg, 7.3 apg, 4.9 rpg, ~3.5 topg, ~2.8 spg.
Flynn (2 yr avg): 45.9% FG, 33.3% 3FG, 16.6 ppg, 6.0 apg, 2.7 rpg, ~3.0 topg, ~1.5 spg.

Flynn's numbers would go up a touch if only counting his soph year, but MCW's frosh year
stats are hosed due to Scoop/Dion/Triche.

The lack of scoring power is what ails this team, not defense. At least MCW did
know how to fastbreak.

Kev

 

[RMH44]

We all know JB’s zone would prefer MCW for length but for college basketball which would you rather have?

This may have been stated elsewhere in the thread but I'm too lazy to read through it.

IMO, Jonny Flynn is the single most over rated player I've seen at SU. He was waaaay too much a "me first" style PG and became completely uncoachable before he left.

I'd take MCW, Ennis, Laz and even the senior version of Scoop before I'd take Flynn. Teams usually don't win when your PG leads the team in shot taken. Too much Iverson and not enough Stockton.

 

[Kowbelkat]

You must mean senior-year Laz Simms. He had a great year.

Still, not sure he'd add a lot to this bunch.

He could penetrate and dish and led that team his senior year, no one on this team has his handle

 

[Waltdods]

He could penetrate and dish and led that team his senior year, no one on this team has his handle

Who is he going to penetrate and dish to?

Z (maybe my all time favorite su player) had John Wallace, marius janulis, Jason cippola and Todd burgan who were legit three point threats. Wallace was one of the two or three best offensive players in the ncaa. And he had a serious low-post talent in Otis hill. This was a perfect team for Z. I am not sure he would have much more luck with this team than Howard has had.

 

[OrangeDW]

This may have been stated elsewhere in the thread but I'm too lazy to read through it.

IMO, Jonny Flynn is the single most over rated player I've seen at SU. He was waaaay too much a "me first" style PG and became completely uncoachable before he left.

I'd take MCW, Ennis, Laz and even the senior version of Scoop before I'd take Flynn. Teams usually don't win when your PG leads the team in shot taken. Too much Iverson and not enough Stockton.

Flynn averaged 6.7 assists per game as a sophomore. I’m not looking it up but I’m pretty sure the list of SU PG’s who’ve averaged more in a season is small. Douglas, Sims...maybe MCW or Pearl?

Also, while Flynn led the team in shots, he also led the team in minutes by far. Devendorf took more shots per 40 minutes played, and Rautins was right behind him. Flynn took 12.5 shots per game, that’s really not that many. That team had pretty good offensive balance.

 

[Kowbelkat]

Who is he going to penetrate and dish to?

Z (maybe my all time favorite su player) had John Wallace, marius janulis, Jason cippola and Todd burgan who were legit three point threats. Wallace was one of the two or three best offensive players in the ncaa. And he had a serious low-post talent in Otis hill. This was a perfect team for Z. I am not sure he would have much more luck with this team than Howard has had.

I still cringe every time one of our current guards dribbles the ball off his foot, basic basketball skills definitely lacking on the current team

 

[senorpalmer]

Great thread question, I especially like how different the two players were even though they played the same position. On a team like this one that lacks firepower and could use some dynamic offense, I'd take Flynn--a superior scorer and more exciting player to watch. If we're talking about a great SU team or a team of SU greats, I'd take MCW--a better pure point guard and better defender, outside of scoring ability he was a superior player to Flynn in other areas of the game.

 

[Ghost]

This team? Flynn without hesitation.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Flynn averaged 6.7 assists per game as a sophomore. I’m not looking it up but I’m pretty sure the list of SU PG’s who’ve averaged more in a season is small. Douglas, Sims...maybe MCW or Pearl?

Also, while Flynn led the team in shots, he also led the team in minutes by far. Devendorf took more shots per 40 minutes played, and Rautins was right behind him. Flynn took 12.5 shots per game, that’s really not that many. That team had pretty good offensive balance.

That 08-09 team was loaded offensively. Problem was we had Flynn and Devo who were allergic to defense and we played Undersized guys in Rautins and Harris in the back of the zone most of the time.

 

[OrangeDW]

That 08-09 team was loaded offensively. Problem was we had Flynn and Devo who were allergic to defense and we played Undersized guys in Rautins and Harris in the back of the zone most of the time.

Yup. And taking the entire body of work into account, I’ll take that team over any of our post 2012 teams(2 final four teams included), personally. 28 wins and a sweet 16 against maybe the most difficult schedule we’ve ever played. Seriously, that team had some awesome wins and with the right draw could’ve made a final four run IMO. I’d personally rather watch a really good offensive team that doesn’t have the pieces defensively than the opposite.