Wright has got it Right

[dasher]

This isn't a player issue. It's a head coach issue.

This is largely a player issue. They aren't that good. Was it a player issue in 2010 or 2012 when we were one seeds? Or in '13 or '16 when we went to the final fours? this team doesn't have winning players. white has never been a winning player. Not has Gillon. Howard sure isn't. Roberson, well, he is Roberson. We don't have winning players.

 

[TCuse99]

Which one of our kids is Selfish, doesn't want to play for SU, and doesn't put the team first? How do you know what any of their personal goals are? I'd submit that ANY player who signs to a major conference team has 'playing in the NBA' as a personal goal. And they all recognize that 'team success' is a great avenue to get them there. How do you reconcile that Malachi essentially went rogue against Virginia, and that's what (finally) got us over the Cavaliers? He wasn't playing in the team scheme.

I get what you're saying, but you have to make a lot of assumptions to get there, all while impugning (our) good kids who really aren't any different than theirs. It's kinda funny how we are recruiting the same players as other teams, but when the kid signs for a program we don't like, he becomes a bad kid (Kentucky...). Ironically, you're kinda turning that around.

It is true that teams that don't typically get high-4 and 5-star kids are used to having the bulk of their teams around for 4 years, and that builds cohesion and fundamentals, and all that nice stuff. But, then you're often stuck with fair-to-middling teams of 3-star talent+experience, which only occasionally leads to big time success. Emulating Nova only because they've recently won a championship is probably not the best idea. They had much the same system for a long time, and were criticized for not having impact in the tournament.

There is absolutely a player on the current roster who is putting himself first. Who is creating a divide on the team and who has torpedoed the season. Stinks.

 

[OttoMets]

Jay Wright is just a very good coach on both ends of the floor. Switches 1-4 on defense his 5-man are usually big bodies that can screen and be effective rollers in his PnR system. He has 4 shooters around his 5-man and their concepts and PNR system is as good as anyone's in the entire country. They adjust to how they are being covered ball screen wise and Wright is always creating advantages for his players with his system.

Agree, Wright's an excellent coach. I don't wade into these "this guy should be our coach" pissing matches, but it's silly for anyone to try to praise Boeheim by tearing Wright down.

 

[two3zone]

There is absolutely a player on the current roster who is putting himself first. Who is creating a divide on the team and who has torpedoed the season. Stinks.

If I had to guess by just watching the play and body/facial expressions I'd guess it was Howard.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

If I had to guess by just watching the play and body/facial expressions I'd guess it was Howard.

Really? How is he doing that? A distributor, who doesn't take a lot of shots? How is he playing selfishly? I can't even see how he's "torpedoing" the season when he's barely getting playing time. He has been ineffective, and we all probably thought we saw enough flashes of passing ability that we could expect him to be a very good pass-first guard.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There is absolutely a player on the current roster who is putting himself first. Who is creating a divide on the team and who has torpedoed the season. Stinks.

Not that i like calling out players like this, but... Who? I'd kinda like to be able to re-watch 'tape' and see what you're talking about. PM me if you'd rather not 'put him on blast,' as the kids say.

 

[realorange]

Really? How is he doing that? A distributor, who doesn't take a lot of shots? How is he playing selfishly? I can't even see how he's "torpedoing" the season when he's barely getting playing time. He has been ineffective, and we all probably thought we saw enough flashes of passing ability that we could expect him to be a very good pass-first guard.

Not only that, but the announcer on the BC game who was formerly Howard's AAU coach said that Howard has lost confidence in himself.
How is that playing selfish?

 

[PoppyHart]

There is a downside to Wright. He was 54-51 from 2010-2013. You would have wanted him fired then too.

54-45 actually, just to set the record straight.

2010-11 - 21-12 (lost in Rd. of 64)
2011-12 - 13-19 (horrible year)
2012-13 - 20-14 (lost in Rd. of 64)

I agree that the pressure would have been really on Wright in 2012-13 if he was subjected to our fickle fan base. Making the tourney would likely have been a prerequisite to stave off a mutiny and keep his job. Fortunately for him, he turned things around, and has gone 111-13 since then.

He inherited a team coming off a 1st round NIT loss, and 5 years removed from its last NCAA tourney win. Since returning to the NCAAT in '04-'05, he's only missed the tourney once, and has an elite 8, a FF and a NC, not to mention the current #1 team. By comparison, since '04-'05, we've had an elite 8, 2 FFs, and have missed the tourney 4 times, barring a miracle.

It's not really fair to compare the situations of JB now and Wright then, b/c the issue of finite time was not a factor in the latter. JB is simply running out of time. If he stays through 2017-18, at best he can right the ship next year and deliver the baton to Hopkins while he's building up to a sprint. At worst, the uncertainty of his staying cripples the next recruiting class (Class of '18) and leaves Hopkins and the program flat-footed. I think the latter is somewhat more likely at this point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

54-45 actually, just to set the record straight.

2010-11 - 21-12 (lost in Rd. of 64)
2011-12 - 13-19 (horrible year)
2012-13 - 20-14 (lost in Rd. of 64)

I agree that the pressure would have been really on Wright in 2012-13 if he was subjected to our fickle fan base. Making the tourney would likely have been a prerequisite to stave off a mutiny and keep his job. Fortunately for him, he turned things around, and has gone 111-13 since then.

He inherited a team coming off a 1st round NIT loss, and 5 years removed from its last NCAA tourney win. Since returning to the NCAAT in '04-'05, he's only missed the tourney once, and has an elite 8, a FF and a NC, not to mention the current #1 team. By comparison, since '04-'05, we've had an elite 8, 2 FFs, and have missed the tourney 4 times, barring a miracle.

It's not really fair to compare the situations of JB now and Wright then, b/c the issue of finite time was not a factor in the latter. JB is simply running out of time. If he stays through 2017-18, at best he can right the ship next year and deliver the baton to Hopkins while he's building up to a sprint. At worst, the uncertainty of his staying cripples the next recruiting class (Class of '18) and leaves Hopkins and the program flat-footed. I think the latter is somewhat more likely at this point.

I don't disagree, but some people think Wright will come here and we would win a minimum of 25 games every year and would have no chance at a down season.

 

[EastCoast2]

This is largely a player issue. They aren't that good. Was it a player issue in 2010 or 2012 when we were one seeds? Or in '13 or '16 when we went to the final fours? this team doesn't have winning players. white has never been a winning player. Not has Gillon. Howard sure isn't. Roberson, well, he is Roberson. We don't have winning players.

So trading

a) Gbinije/Cooney/Malachi for
b) White/Gillon/Thompson/Battle

is the difference between

a) 9-9 in ACC, trip to the Final Four and
b) Not having a win over a non mid-major on Jan 2nd, losing to BC by 15, and looking at a 3-15 ACC record if lucky?

At what point does this become a coaching issue? Surely this team is more talented than BC. I was at the game - the team gave up. That's a coaching issue.

 

[dasher]

So trading

a) Gbinije/Cooney/Malachi for
b) White/Gillon/Thompson/Battle

is the difference between

a) 9-9 in ACC, trip to the Final Four and
b) Not having a win over a non mid-major on Jan 2nd, losing to BC by 15, and looking at a 3-15 ACC record if lucky?

At what point does this become a coaching issue? Surely this team is more talented than BC. I was at the game - the team gave up. That's a coaching issue.

If the team gave up. that is a player character issue. So, in 41 years, other Syracuse teams haven't given up but this one does and this one is on the coach instead of the players. Got it. did last years team give up when things got tough? Or after the blow out loss to G-town in '13 did they give up? but it's on the coach this time??

 

[two3zone]

So trading

a) Gbinije/Cooney/Malachi for
b) White/Gillon/Thompson/Battle

is the difference between

a) 9-9 in ACC, trip to the Final Four and
b) Not having a win over a non mid-major on Jan 2nd, losing to BC by 15, and looking at a 3-15 ACC record if lucky?

At what point does this become a coaching issue? Surely this team is more talented than BC. I was at the game - the team gave up. That's a coaching issue.

If the team gave up. that is a player character issue.

I honestly think it's a mixture of what both of you are saying, which is probably worse than both the things individually.

 

[dasher]

I honestly think it's a mixture of what both of you are saying, which is probably worse than both the things individually.

As I just said, last years team didn't give up. JB must have been a better coach last year.

 

[Jack Hall]

I honestly think it's a mixture of what both of you are saying, which is probably worse than both the things individually.

JB in his career has more often times than not (eventually) had an answer to a tough problem. Imo last season and even 2013 FF run was case in point. Both those teams were absolutely reeling before their FF runs. Credit due to JB. The two most startling things about this season for me 1) how much the guards have struggled so far 2) how completely void of any answers JB has been in creating ANY improvement in this team. But the season is not over. I have given up hope on us making the tourney but i still think we have to reserve total judgement on this team and JB until the seasons over

 

[two3zone]

As I just said, last years team didn't give up. JB must have been a better coach last year.

Had guys on that squad that were there for a long time and believed what he said because they saw it first hand.

 

[supp]

If the team gave up. that is a player character issue. So, in 41 years, other Syracuse teams haven't given up but this one does and this one is on the coach instead of the players. Got it. did last years team give up when things got tough? Or after the blow out loss to G-town in '13 did they give up? but it's on the coach this time??

We've had a good number of players/teams pack it in over Boeheim's long career. The bad losses and mediocre teams of years past often went hand in hand with one or more malcontents, chemistry problems, episodes of public insubordination, etc. There was a good stretch there during the mid-1990s and then again post-2003 where the annual team drama often wound up overshadowing everything. Given what's happened in the past, the idea of Boeheim losing control of this team isn't entirely far-fetched.

 

[dasher]

We've had a good number of players/teams pack it in over Boeheim's long career. The bad losses and mediocre teams of years past often went hand in hand with one or more malcontents, chemistry problems, episodes of public insubordination, etc. There was a good stretch there during the mid-1990s and then again post-2003 where the annual team drama often wound up overshadowing everything. Given what's happened in the past, the idea of Boeheim losing control of this team isn't entirely far-fetched.

The guy has coached for 41 years. Not every season is going to be a smooth running ship. For any coach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agree, Wright's an excellent coach. I don't wade into these "this guy should be our coach" pissing matches, but it's silly for anyone to try to praise Boeheim by tearing Wright down.

Nobody is praising Boeheim by tearing Wright down. In fact it's just the opposite. The poster you are responding to doesn't think we have any player issues and refuses to admit Wright himself had down seasons when he didn't have talent. That same poster would have wanted Wright fired if he was a Nova fan after 2015 and 5 consecutive years of either missing the tournament or not getting past the first weekend. My god we can't even have a legit discussion about it because the the people who tear Boeheim down fail to admit that other coaches come with negatives as well. This board loves Wright and Izzo though. You would think they win 30 games and get to at least the sweet 16 every year.

 

[TCuse99]

Not that i like calling out players like this, but... Who? I'd kinda like to be able to re-watch 'tape' and see what you're talking about. PM me if you'd rather not 'put him on blast,' as the kids say.

I will PM you. This is not opinion. Have heard it from countless people.

 

[SBU72]

Yeah, imo, DC2 was a beast in HS against physically smaller kids, just didn't have the basketball skills to compete with comparable players at this level. Didn't get great big man coaching either, but if he can't learn to not bring the ball down, well...

In many ways, I agree with you. I often thought the same thing about Harris. However, I have read that DC2 did very well at summer camps which raised his evaluations despite playing in a smaller HS conference. Christmas did much the same. get high marks for his defense at camps but not known for his offense. In fact I think he was the only kid in the McD's game that did not average in double digits. Look how long it took him to get into the grove. DC2 could have been much the same type but injures cut that short. It is very possible that he would have been even better than Christmas last year (his senior yr) because he had already shown talent on the offensive end.

 

[81South]

Yeah, imo, DC2 was a beast in HS against physically smaller kids, just didn't have the basketball skills to compete with comparable players at this level. Didn't get great big man coaching either, but if he can't learn to not bring the ball down, well...

Dude played a national aau schedule in high school against comparable players and had all the big boys drooling for him. PayPal was very much in play for him right down to him announcing so let's not pretend he wasn't highly coveted.

Most of us are not privy to the full details of his knee injuries which have no doubt greatly impacted his ability to be an effective player for SU.

 

[EastCoast2]

As I just said, last years team didn't give up. JB must have been a better coach last year.

So you're narrowing the blame onto some combination of Gillon, White, Thompson, and Battle. Lydon, Howard, Coleman, & Roberson were on that team last year, and played meaningful minutes. JB lost this year's team.

 

[EastCoast2]

Dude played a national aau schedule in high school against comparable players and had all the big boys drooling for him. PayPal was very much in play for him right down to him announcing so let's not pretend he wasn't highly coveted.

Most of us are not privy to the full details of his knee injuries which have no doubt greatly impacted his ability to be an effective player for SU.

Unfortunately he looked like he was limping very very slightly at the BC game. He never even took off his warm ups. I wonder if he tweaked something again.

 

[br801]

Dude played a national aau schedule in high school against comparable players and had all the big boys drooling for him. PayPal was very much in play for him right down to him announcing so let's not pretend he wasn't highly coveted.

Most of us are not privy to the full details of his knee injuries which have no doubt greatly impacted his ability to be an effective player for SU.

Your last sentence is an understatement. Coleman's injuries would have ended the careers of most players. He has worked extraordinarily hard to rehab from his surgeries and improve his conditioning whIle doing so. His work ethic alone tells me he would have been a tremendous college basketball player had he been healthy throughout his career.

 

[OttoMets]

Your last sentence is an understatement. Coleman's injuries would have ended the careers of most players. He has worked extraordinarily hard to rehab from his surgeries and improve his conditioning whIle doing so. His work ethic alone tells me he would have been a tremendous college basketball player had he been healthy throughout his career.

A strong work ethic isn't a sufficient trait for a great college basketball player.

I'm disappointed that I'm contributing to the negativity on here, but the myth surrounding Coleman has gotten ridiculous. He worked hard and shed a lot of weight, then he worked hard and rehabilitated after several surgeries. He's a hard worker. So are 99% of the people on ACC rosters, scholarship and walk-on alike.