Wright has got it Right

[81South]

A strong work ethic isn't a sufficient trait for a great college basketball player.

I'm disappointed that I'm contributing to the negativity on here, but the myth surrounding Coleman has gotten ridiculous. He worked hard and shed a lot of weight, then he worked hard and rehabilitated after several surgeries. He's a hard worker. So are 99% of the people on ACC rosters, scholarship and walk-on alike.

What myth? Was a stud in high school. Not a stud in college. Injuries greatly contributed to his fall off. Hard worker. By all accounts a great teammate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

DC played for the City Rocks. It wasn't like he just dominated Westhill when he was in high school.

 

[OttoMets]

What myth? Was a stud in high school. Not a stud in college. Injuries greatly contributed to his fall off. Hard worker. By all accounts a great teammate.

The myth that injuries were the only thing that stood between Coleman and a "tremendous" or great or above-average college basketball career.

I have less than no interest in disparaging a hard-working member of this team, but there seems to be no basis for the claim that he'd have been a very good college player. (No, a high recruiting ranking and Section III high school statistics aren't evidence to support that claim.)

 

[br801]

A strong work ethic isn't a sufficient trait for a great college basketball player.

I'm disappointed that I'm contributing to the negativity on here, but the myth surrounding Coleman has gotten ridiculous. He worked hard and shed a lot of weight, then he worked hard and rehabilitated after several surgeries. He's a hard worker. So are 99% of the people on ACC rosters, scholarship and walk-on alike.

You missed the part where I suggested his work ethic coupled with good health (and the basketball abilities he possessed coming in here) would have translated into a great player.

 

[OttoMets]

You missed the part where I suggested his work ethic coupled with good health (and the basketball abilities he possessed coming in here) would have translated into a great player.

Which abilities?

(I didn't miss anything.) To be a successful college basketball player, one needs to be healthy. One also needs to be a hard worker, unless one is in the tiny minority of players who are extraordinarily talent. One also needs to possess a certain set of skills.

 

[br801]

Which abilities?

(I didn't miss anything.) To be a successful college basketball player, one needs to be healthy. One also needs to be a hard worker, unless one is in the tiny minority of players who are extraordinarily talent. One also needs to possess a certain set of skills.

He had the skills necessary to be a very good scorer in the post and has always had strong rebounding skills. I'd imagine John Calipari saw something there that made him attractive to that program.

 

[OttoMets]

He had the skills necessary to be a very good scorer in the post and has always had strong rebounding skills. I'd imagine John Calipari saw something there that made him attractive to that program.

Again, what skills?

Let's not change the subject with "Calipari," "good teammate," or "hard worker" - I'd like to hear those of you who apparently saw Coleman play in high school share with the group your impression of which specific skills he possessed that would've guaranteed his place as a great college player but for his unfortunate series of injuries.

 

[br801]

Again, what skills?

Let's not change the subject with "Calipari," "good teammate," or "hard worker" - I'd like to hear those of you who apparently saw Coleman play in high school share with the group your impression of which specific skills he possessed that would've guaranteed his place as a great college player but for his unfortunate series of injuries.

Don't even know what the point of this is now, but he's a good rebounder, has some post skills that he can use to score around the basket if given the opportunity, and has a decent touch out to about 15 feet. For a center, he has been statistically productive on a per minute basis when he has been able to play. The knee injuries have certainly robbed him of explosiveness, so I imagine he might have been even more productive had he remained healthy, and likely would have put up some nice scoring and rebounding numbers had he been able to play 25-30 minutes per game.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Again, what skills?

Let's not change the subject with "Calipari," "good teammate," or "hard worker" - I'd like to hear those of you who apparently saw Coleman play in high school share with the group your impression of which specific skills he possessed that would've guaranteed his place as a great college player but for his unfortunate series of injuries.

High motor kid
Very active around the rim
Sweet 8-12' jump shot
Good FT shooter

What else do you need?

 

[NineOneSeven]

High motor kid
Very active around the rim
Sweet 8-12' jump shot
Good FT shooter

What else do you need?

At the end of the day, Coleman was always an under the rim player. I also said he should model his game off of Zach Randolph. He was undersized. Crazy I know, given he is 6'9". Strong guy, but not particularly long for a center. We saw the problems in his early years inside around taller and rangier players. This was pre-injury. The knee injuries have only hurt this part of his game. Give him a lot of credit for battling back. Impossible to know what he might be if he was healthy all four years (look what Rakeem Christmas did, for instance). Maybe he's the same player, maybe not. Impossible to know. Definitely battles hard when he plays, but the middle of the zone he has never been truly comfortable in.

 

[OttoMets]

High motor kid
Very active around the rim
Sweet 8-12' jump shot
Good FT shooter

What else do you need?

I was looking for stuff like footwork, post moves, vision, specifics about what he does when he got the ball on the block. The point was that he was never strong at those important things, and with that skills deficit and Syracuse's wing-focused offense, it'd be wrong to blame the injuries for preventing him from being a great college player. It could've happened, sure. He's a hard worker and the fact that he's been able to do some things (the 12' shot) well suggests that he could've learned to do some other things well, too.

But it'd be crazy to predict that a freshman whose lone post move seemed to be bending at the waist and putting the ball into a defender's hands was certain to be a great player. It's more likely that Coleman was destined to be a lot closer to the player he is now: a below-the-rim guy who developed a rapport with teammates and could pass the ball to a cutter and rely on savvy to create space for makeable shots at the rim. Because no matter how hard they work, centers with limited athleticism whose fundamental skills are behind the curve tend to top out doing the things you described rather than being great players. (And for a lot of Syracuse teams that's all we're looking for, so this shouldn't be construed as me dumping on Coleman.)

 

[PoppyHart]

Well, if was healthy, he's be gone by now.

High motor kid
Very active around the rim
Sweet 8-12' jump shot
Good FT shooter

What else do you need?

Are you describing Kristof Ongenaet?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

...lone post move seemed to be bending at the waist and putting the ball into a defender's hands...

Shouldn't this be easily correctable?
I love DC, but the issues with his game seem like the types of things that should be fixable. I also have said from the jump that he should have been like Zach Randolph, who is just efficient with the ball. He doesn't need a series of choreographed moves. He catches, he goes up, and doesn't need to square himself first. DC needs to catch, settle, dribble, pivot, pump, then slam his elbow into the opponent's ribs, then shoot. And while all that is happening, he's being converged upon by the help and a pesky guard. Result: shot block, or a steal at waist level. With as much time as he has spent with us, how is it acceptable to still have this going on? DC's not a dumb kid. I wish i could see what goes on in practices, as this could not possibly have worked against Christmas and now Chukwu. Who's DC going against in practice?

This is just a continuation of my call for a legit big man coach...

 

[OttoMets]

Shouldn't this be easily correctable?
I love DC, but the issues with his game seem like the types of things that should be fixable. I also have said from the jump that he should have been like Zach Randolph, who is just efficient with the ball. He doesn't need a series of choreographed moves. He catches, he goes up, and doesn't need to square himself first. DC needs to catch, settle, dribble, pivot, pump, then slam his elbow into the opponent's ribs, then shoot. And while all that is happening, he's being converged upon by the help and a pesky guard. Result: shot block, or a steal at waist level. With as much time as he has spent with us, how is it acceptable to still have this going on? DC's not a dumb kid. I wish i could see what goes on in practices, as this could not possibly have worked against Christmas and now Chukwu. Who's DC going against in practice?

This is just a continuation of my call for a legit big man coach...

He's improved over the years, though he still does it sometimes.

I agree that it's weird and it's reasonable to wonder how that behavior isn't drilled out of a player long before now, but a lot of parties have had a hand in this.

It's inconceivable to me that any supposed high-level basketball player could come into college with such a flaw. What were they doing at his high school practices, eating pizza? Maybe dropping a shoulder into the defender gets buckets in Section III, but a center who brings the ball below his waist every time he receives a pass isn't going to have offensive success in the ACC. Call me crazy, but McDonald's All Americans should arrive in college with better skills than that. I pity Boeheim and Hopkins being put into the position where they've got to clean up that kind of basic problem with a kid who's spent five years hearing that he's among the best in the country.

I don't know that we need a better big man coach in the way that many argue we do, but Syracuse could certainly benefit from some enhanced fundamental skills instruction. I hope we see an emphasis on that in a Hopkins regime.

 

[dasher]

So you're narrowing the blame onto some combination of Gillon, White, Thompson, and Battle. Lydon, Howard, Coleman, & Roberson were on that team last year, and played meaningful minutes. JB lost this year's team.

I love the lost the team line. Because we are losing he must have lost the team.

 

[two3zone]

He's improved over the years, though he still does it sometimes.

I agree that it's weird and it's reasonable to wonder how that behavior isn't drilled out of a player long before now, but a lot of parties have had a hand in this.

It's inconceivable to me that any supposed high-level basketball player could come into college with such a flaw. What were they doing at his high school practices, eating pizza? Maybe dropping a shoulder into the defender gets buckets in Section III, but a center who brings the ball below his waist every time he receives a pass isn't going to have offensive success in the ACC. Call me crazy, but McDonald's All Americans should arrive in college with better skills than that. I pity Boeheim and Hopkins being put into the position where they've got to clean up that kind of basic problem with a kid who's spent five years hearing that he's among the best in the country.

I don't know that we need a better big man coach in the way that many argue we do, but Syracuse could certainly benefit from some enhanced fundamental skills instruction. I hope we see an emphasis on that in a Hopkins regime.

What's in bold is the reason why I don't believe he would have been much better than he's shown.

I know the guy has had injuries but even injuries aside he's been healthy for 4 of the years, almost 2 years being healthy and nothing changed.

His positives are his positives, but his negatives have always negated his positives. ie. Good post moves - Brings the ball down to his waist / Good rebounder - Plays more below the rim than Breanna Stewart

He is what he is and he should get some run overseas when he's done here.

 

[EastCoast2]

I love the lost the team line. Because we are losing he must have lost the team.

Have you watched the past games against UConn, Gtown, St. John's, or BC? We don't go 0-4 with losses by 30 and 15+ to those teams with the current talent on the roster if the players are 100% behind JB.

I don't know if you've ever played high level sports, but multiple players mailing it in this early in a season is a definite sign of giving up on a coach. The individual players look miserable, they're not having fun, and a huge part of that is who they have to deal with every day at practice and during/after games.

 

[dasher]

Have you watched the past games against UConn, Gtown, St. John's, or BC? We don't go 0-4 with losses by 30 and 15+ to those teams with the current talent on the roster if the players are 100% behind JB.

I don't know if you've ever played high level sports, but multiple players mailing it in this early in a season is a definite sign of giving up on a coach. The individual players look miserable, they're not having fun, and a huge part of that is who they have to deal with every day at practice and during/after games.[/QUOTThey are dealing with the same guy that has been the coach here for 40 winning seasons. Now, at what point did the players tune JB out? The UConn game? Th G-town game? Which game? Maybe the team isn't very good. Now, JB can't be doing a good job. But the rush to lay all of the blame on the guy we know can coach winning teams, seems a bit rash to me.

 

[Delmar]

Villanova has been good a long time. It used to be that the Big 5 shared the spotlight, and St. Joe's was the premier program for much of that time with Jack Ramsey coaching. They've had a great tradition of coaching with Harry Litwack, Massimino, and Wright deserves a place along side them. They are now clearly the king of Philly. They had to break up the Big 5 to do it. Every Big 5 game used to take place at the Palestra --no more.

We've benefited from Philadelphia recruiting, but Villanova is first in line.

 

[PhatOrange]

When JB announces and I'm Wildhack, I offer Jay Wright a salary to make him the highest paid head coach in college basketball.

 

[Dave85]

Villanova recruits below the 5 star group searching for unselfish talented players who WANT to play for Nova and put the team first. These players set aside their personal goals and focus on team success. Nova always has a deep bench of guards and nobody leaves early. They are typically 4 year players and as each learns Wrights' system they are able to lead underclass men and actually floor coach the younger players. Wright then builds on an already established team with new recruits that buy in on his philosophy. He is not constantly re-inventing the team each year because he doesn't recruit one and done 5-star players. He is firm but yet nurtures his players. You never see discord on the bench or floor. Unless you pick up top top 5-star player it makes no sense because they won't be good enough to carry you but just good enough to undermine your teams cohesion when they leave after first year and leave a void with nothing to build on. The zone seems to be antiquated because of all the long range sharpshooters that exist now. JMHO

The NCAA sanctions really hurt us. Those extra scholarships go to those type of players.

I don't think zone versus m2m is the problem. Buddy Hield single handedly destroyed many teams last year playing m2m. It doesn't matter what scheme the defense is playing. Bad defense is bad defense. Great shooters will make baskets. That's just the way the game works. I don't think overall CBB players any better this year than last. But the data miners will probably collate the data to show evidence one way or the other.

Regardless, if this team doesn't find a way to start playing better defense this season will be over 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[OttoMets]

The NCAA sanctions really hurt us. Those extra scholarships go to those type of players.

I don't think zone versus m2m is the problem. Buddy Hield single handedly destroyed many teams last year playing m2m. It doesn't matter what scheme the defense is playing. Bad defense is bad defense. Great shooters will make baskets. That's just the way the game works. I don't think overall CBB players any better this year than last. But the data miners will probably collate the data to show evidence one way or the other.

Regardless, if this team doesn't find a way to start playing better defense this season will be over 2 or 3 weeks.

Agree about the zone argument, 99% of the time, it's the players, not the scheme. There are times, of course, when we could stand to throw out a different look or even switch the defense to account for a player's abilities.

I don't think the sanctions argument holds much water, though. On the whole, we got every player the coaches wanted to get; as far as the guys who aren't here, it's not because of sanctions. If someone's got a concrete example of a player we lost solely due to sanctions, I'm all ears, but to me this complaint has been overblown. (And I consider it the choice of the staff to run off Johnson and Patterson in order to move up the penalty; the NCAA can't be blamed for that one.)

 

[RF2044]

Agree about the zone argument, 99% of the time, it's the players, not the scheme. There are times, of course, when we could stand to throw out a different look or even switch the defense to account for a player's abilities.

I don't think the sanctions argument holds much water, though. On the whole, we got every player the coaches wanted to get; as far as the guys who aren't here, it's not because of sanctions. If someone's got a concrete example of a player we lost solely due to sanctions, I'm all ears, but to me this complaint has been overblown. (And I consider it the choice of the staff to run off Johnson and Patterson in order to move up the penalty; the NCAA can't be blamed for that one.)

Didn't they run them off to free scholarships up for Bryant / Battle? That's what I think happened.

When Bryant didn't come after those guys transferred out, that put us in a position to apply the sanctions early since we were already down several scholarships.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agree about the zone argument, 99% of the time, it's the players, not the scheme. There are times, of course, when we could stand to throw out a different look or even switch the defense to account for a player's abilities.

I don't think the sanctions argument holds much water, though. On the whole, we got every player the coaches wanted to get; as far as the guys who aren't here, it's not because of sanctions. If someone's got a concrete example of a player we lost solely due to sanctions, I'm all ears, but to me this complaint has been overblown. (And I consider it the choice of the staff to run off Johnson and Patterson in order to move up the penalty; the NCAA can't be blamed for that one.)

We didn't get everyone we wanted. Diange didn't qualify. Bryant didn't come. We backed off on Huerter. If we have those 3 guys we probably are undefeated this year.

 

[OttoMets]

We didn't get everyone we wanted. Diange didn't qualify. Bryant didn't come. We backed off on Huerter. If we have those 3 guys we probably are undefeated this year.

I love the optimism, but that's a pretty wild undefeated claim. For one thing, none of those guys is a point guard. But I don't mean to argue that point.

Might be mistaken about Huerter, but I don't believe any of those kids didn't come to Syracuse because of sanctions. Obviously Bryant and Diagne ended up elsewhere for other reasons.

Didn't they run them off to free scholarships up for Bryant / Battle? That's what I think happened.

When Bryant didn't come after those guys transferred out, that put us in a position to apply the sanctions early since we were already down several scholarships.

You might be right about that; I'll take your word for it. If it's true, though, it's weird that they'd run off a scholarship player for someone (Bryant) who hadn't even committed yet. I can't blame the NCAA for the Johnson/Patterson departures. If anything, the staff saw an opportunity to upgrade some roster spots but then failed to attract a recruit on the merits.