Year 3 Tends to be When You Kinda, Sorta Know...

[Ozcuse]

To be honest, I don't remember anyone on this board calling for his head after one year. I remember him be introduced at a hoop game and getting a big cheer after the 1-10 season. Almost everybody was on board still.

Everyone was still blaming Coach P for leaving him no talent .

 

[Millhouse]

To be honest, I don't remember anyone on this board calling for his head after one year. I remember him be introduced at a hoop game and getting a big cheer after the 1-10 season. Almost everybody was on board still.

we were all thinking it though!

 

[Scooch]

they could've limited the damage had they fired him after year one but noooooo we need continuity and what about the recruits

Personally, it was a sequence late in the first half of the Cincinnati game in his second year when I knew with absolutely certainty that he was beyond redemption.

I do think you can make a somewhat plausible case to bring Shafer back for year 4, even if we lose out this season (I'm not going to make it, but one could). There was no reason to bring GumpRob back for year 4. Other than $$$.

 

[TheCusian]

Say we lose out this year and turn in back to back 3-9 win seasons. I am just baffled as to how many people still would believe in Shafer and want him around. That would mean last year we ended with losing 9 out of the last 10. And this year losing 9 games in a row. Last two years only we would have beaten only Wake Forest in the ACC. And Wake Forest would be our only 2 wins versus P5 teams. I don't know how anyone can look at that and go yes I believe he will turn it around. Last two years we would have beaten Central Michigan twice, Wake twice, Rhode Island and Villanova. That is awful and bottom of the barrel type stuff.

I think you can't jump that far ahead and make a decision based on a future that may or may not come true.

Some here have seen enough and that last 4 games don't matter. I think that's not fair, but I get it.

I think 2 gets another year. 1 is tough. My belief in Shafer is waning - but I don't forget our D the last two seasons and my eyes tell me the offense is getting better.

Is that enough? I don't know.

 

[TheCusian]

we were all thinking it though!

I think you'd think it if it was anyone who doesn't run a specific offensive system...

 

[Millhouse]

I think you'd think it if it was anyone who doesn't run a specific offensive system...

i would love to have an offense that didn't blow so we could test that theory

 

[Chip]

Excellent analysis. Folks around here keep trying to use the outlier as a reason to justify keeping SS for a 4th year. But your analysis proves that, as you said, he's the exception not the norm. I consult for large hospitals for a living, and we use stats to prove our recommendations. It drives us crazy when the leadership focuses on that "one time 20 years ago when the ER had an influx of patients at 2am". That's pretty much exactly what's going on here. Focusing on the outlier, not the overall distribution of the data set.

If we're talking outliers I'd like to bring up my favorite once again. Walt Harris fired after 2 years at Stanford. They still haven't looked back.

It's all about who you hire next.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think people really knew what to expect when he was hired, he was the death blow to the program though. It had been dying a slow death over the years with the lack of commitment to facilities, etc. hiring Robinson ruined this program and its perception nationally, still feel it today. Been a tough 10 years and that is what killed us when marrone left, I figured he would leave for the nfl at some point, just wish it was right about now...

We don't feel anything. People love to forget 2 things just to try and find a single scapegoat. One, then program was already on a steep downward trend and had a bad national perception. Blow out losses and huge upsets to the Rutgers and temples did that. 16-20 isn't good. Second, it took Marrone all of 2 years to get us back to where we were before Grob. So the long term effects of Grob are exaggerate. People like to think we were a 9-3 program before Grob. Amnesia.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If we're talking outliers I'd like to bring up my favorite once again. Walt Harris fired after 2 years at Stanford. They still haven't looked back.

It's all about who you hire next.

Exactly, like UCLA did.

 

[rrlbees]

Next year the built in excuse will be the o-line is young. This is college football there will always be units that are young and inexperienced.

I give him a pass right now and a 4th year because of two things. Last year was a disaster with injuries. Yea every team suffers injuries but I've never seen a team get ravaged like we did and it's not like we're Alabama where 2nd and 3rd stringers are still studs. This year, yea he's made some coaching errors but we are young. Real young. He was left diddly in the upper classes, especially the skill positions and defense. About 70% of the starting lineup are kids. That's a big learning curve.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We don't feel anything. People love to forget 2 things just to try and find a single scapegoat. One, then program was already on a steep downward trend and had a bad national perception. Blow out losses and huge upsets to the Rutgers and temples did that. 16-20 isn't good. Second, it took Marrone all of 2 years to get us back to where we were before Grob. So the long term effects of Grob are exaggerate. People like to think we were a 9-3 program before Grob. Amnesia.

Disagree. Currently, do you think our program is viewed in the same light as Pitt and BC.? I don't and I think it was until GROB even with the slide that P was on. Before the slide we were obviously held in higher regard. Marrone put a patch on it and shafer blew it last year, and we are trending in wrong direction if every facet.

 

[TheCusian]

i would love to have an offense that didn't blow so we could test that theory

I don't know what semi-root of what tree you're into today

 

[TheCusian]

Disagree. Currently, do you think our program is viewed in the same light as Pitt and BC.? I don't and I think it was until GROB even with the slide that P was on. Before the slide we were obviously held in higher regard. Marrone put a patch on it and shafer blew it last year, and we are trending in wrong direction if every facet.

Except young talent, good defensive coaches, a very good QB, IPF, new or renovated stadium, a new AD...

 

[Scooch]

If we're talking outliers I'd like to bring up my favorite once again. Walt Harris fired after 2 years at Stanford. They still haven't looked back.

It's all about who you hire next.

That's not the right kind of outlier, knock it off.

 

[Chip]

That's not the right kind of outlier, knock it off.

It's so odd that they are on their 2nd coach since firing a guy after 2 years, and yet seem to have stability and consistently win. At a private school no less! One that doesn't have a lot of fans who like to attend games.

This is just one crazy world I tell ya.

 

[donniesyracuse]

He was left diddly in the upper classes, especially the skill positions and defense.

Shafer must have played a significantly role in recruiting defensive players under Marrone. Does Shafer deserve some blame for the lack of 4th and 5th year defensive players? I'm not saying he does, I'm just asking. I don't know all that much about recruiting.

 

[GoSU96]

We don't feel anything. People love to forget 2 things just to try and find a single scapegoat. One, then program was already on a steep downward trend and had a bad national perception. Blow out losses and huge upsets to the Rutgers and temples did that. 16-20 isn't good. Second, it took Marrone all of 2 years to get us back to where we were before Grob. So the long term effects of Grob are exaggerate. People like to think we were a 9-3 program before Grob. Amnesia.

Still don't get the love for that idiot, guy destroyed this program.

Steep decline? P had one losing season in 14 years and two .500 seasons after 10-3. and a top 15 ranking.

If that's steep decline what is, 13-20 and with four to play and two three win seasons in a row after 8-5./25-25?

If it was time for P to go, why does Shafer get a pass?

 

[GoSU96]

Shafer must have played a significantly role in recruiting defensive players under Marrone. Does Shafer deserve some blame for the lack of 4th and 5th year defensive players? I'm not saying he does, I'm just asking. I don't know all that much about recruiting.

There were a lot of 3 and 4 years starters on the defense that all graduated together, some 4 year players, some 5 year players, some jucos. Eskridge declared early and an unusual number injured out, transferred, or were asked to leave on top of it.

It's not anybody's fault, it happens sometimes, it's a bunch of things, many beyond anyone's control.

 

[Scooch]

It's so odd that they are on their 2nd coach since firing a guy after 2 years, and yet seem to have stability and consistently win. At a private school no less! One that doesn't have a lot of fans who like to attend games.

This is just one crazy world I tell ya.

You forget that Stanford does not have injuries nor have they had any bad referee calls go against them. So it's a stupid comparison, cut it out.

 

[TheCusian]

There were a lot of 3 and 4 years starters on the defense that all graduated together, some 4 year players, some 5 year players, some jucos. Eskridge declared early and an unusual number injured out, transferred, or were asked to leave on top of it. It's not anybody's fault, it happens sometimes, it's a bunch of things, many beyond anyone's control.

And that happened with the offense too - but the talent on D was always built for a Shafer/Bullough system.

The offense Marrone/Hackett ran made a lot with less and maybe that's why they didn't get great skill players. Mcit didn't know what he was doing. Lester seems to know what kind of players he wants - but it's year 3 and all those guys are freshman or playing HS football.

 

[007]

I love you.

I'm kinda fond of you, too. In a very manly, secret agent kind of way.

 

[rrlbees]

Still don't get the love for that idiot, guy destroyed this program. Steep decline? P had one losing season in 14 years and two .500 seasons after 10-3. and a top 15 ranking. If that's steep decline what is, 13-20 and with four to play and two three win seasons in a row after 8-5./25-25? If it was time for P to go, why does Shafer get a pass?

I'm saying he should get a 4th year. Last year was injury hell that nobody can deny. This year is youth hell that nobody can deny.

 

[Chip]

I'm saying he should get a 4th year. Last year was injury hell that nobody can deny. This year is youth hell that nobody can deny.

Next year will be fan hell, which nobody can deny.

Sing along...

Which nobody can deny.

Which nobody can deny.

For he's an unqualified fellow...

 

[Millhouse]

Next year will be fan hell, which nobody can deny.

Sing along...

Which nobody can deny.

Which nobody can deny.

For he's an unqualified fellow...

song makes me wanna dance

 

[cuseguy]

I hope no one is expecting the next coach to produce a winning program by the third year.

It's not happening,