Yes, it is the end of the world...

[tbonezone]

college basketball fans count 2 things...

1. Titles
2. Final Fours

you guys can have your regular seasons, the now 5 F4s mean more to the program's perception than 4 decades of 20 Ws do.

hell, im told a bunch of them don't exist anyway...

i look at winning percentage . now that stat can be skewed by scheduling and conference strength but to me is the best measure of success.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Between 1988-1991, we were a 3-2-2-2 seed, but never went to a Final Four
Between 2013-2016, we were a 4-3-none-10 seed, and went to two Final Fours

If you asked me which 4 year stretch we all celebrated more, it would obviously be the past 4 years.
If you asked me which 4 year stretch the overall quality and health and prestige of our program was higher, it was definitely the late 80s.

I feel like we're intermingling end of year tourney results with overall program health, and those are often two completely different things due to the pure randomness of the NCAA tournament.

No matter how good you play in the regular season, if you don't win in the tournament it is going to affect the overall health of your program, just look at Pitt. They won about 30 games 5 years in a row at one point and it got them nowhere. Now they are are perennial bubble team and their coach left because the regular season success wasn't enough for their fans.. I would rather have our last ten years over Pitt, even if we can't beat them. I don't think it is random they struggle in the tournament and I don't think it's random we have had more tourney success than we basically ever have had going back to 2009.

Some programs can't win in March and that used to be JB when a lot of us were just puppies. Other schools lose a few games in the regular season and consistently win games in March. Michigan State comes to mind here. I used to read very smart posters on this board about 5 years ago say we would rather lose a few games during the regular season like Michigan State always does if that meant we won more games in March. Now we starting to win a lot of games consistently in March and people want more wins during the regular season.

If I'm a recruit I want to go somewhere where I can win big games and we have been doing that consistently since about 2008. I want to win the title as much as anyone and that means you must win tournament games consistently to keep having the chance.

Also I'm shocked at the amount of fans that have basically given up on this season already. This team has talent, even if they haven't played up to it yet. I remember in 2013 and last year that fans said they would never throw in the towel after what that late season success showed them, and now those same fans are throwing in the towel.

 

[Cusefan0307]

i look at winning percentage . now that stat can be skewed by scheduling and conference strength but to me is the best measure of success.

Tell that to A Pitt fan.

 

[Alsacs]

The Final Fours make us elite in respect to the nation but the state of the program is scary.

 

[tbonezone]

what's dixon's w/l against syracuse ? meaningless ? no it stings.

 

[Cuse'91]

The Final Fours make us elite in respect to the nation but the state of the program is scary.

Would prefer Final4 appearances as 1 or 2 seed. Uconn's NCs are "flukey," then what are our last two Final4 runs?

Edit: Do you really think last year's Final4 run gives us elite level respect? Not sure if anyone outside the fanbase would consider us elite lately...

 

[Cusefan0307]

The Final Fours make us elite in respect to the nation but the state of the program is scary.

Disagree, it's not that bad. I doubt you would think this if we were 9-0. I think you're overreacting over missing Quade. I for one don't think Lydon and Battle are going anywhere after what we have seen from them so far this year.Bring them back and pair them with Thompson/Moyer/Howard and we will have a great team next year. Sprinkle in additional four year players we have added already and that adds a solid long term nucleus. Sign Ayala for 2017 and Get some elite guys in 2018 and we will be a top third ACC team. In basketball you can miss a few guys and it's not going to destroy you.

 

[Cusefan0307]

what's dixon's w/l against syracuse ? meaningless ? no it stings.

Dixon w/l record meant so much to Pitt fans that they ran him out of town.

 

[tbonezone]

dixon was signed thru 2023. best winning % in big east history. you think he was fired ?

 

[Alsacs]

Disagree, it's not that bad. I doubt you would think this if we were 9-0. I think you're overreacting over missing Quade. I for one don't think Lydon and Battle are going anywhere after what we have seen from them so far this year.Bring them back and pair them with Thompson/Moyer/Howard and we will have a great team next year. Sprinkle in additional four year players we have added already and that adds a solid long term nucleus. Sign Ayala for 2017 and Get some elite guys in 2018 and we will be a top third ACC team. In basketball you can miss a few guys and it's not going to destroy you.

If we were 9-0 this season wouldn't be the 3rd in a row we were mediocre.
I don't even know how good Quade Green is. I do know our recruiting since we joined the ACC isn't close to the top of the conference. JB doesn't pursue a lot of the top guys.
The program is going thru a transition as JB is gone next year. Do we have any reason to think we will get better recruits for next year. As if we are mediocre this year and don't get better guards next year will be another mediocre year and that would be 4 mediocre regular seasons in a row. I think we will make the tourney this year but we will be mediocre.

 

[Alsacs]

Would prefer Final4 appearances as 1 or 2 seed. Uconn's NCs are "flukey," then what are our last two Final4 runs?

Edit: Do you really think last year's Final4 run gives us elite level respect? Not sure if anyone outside the fanbase would consider us elite lately...

Last year gave us 2 Final Fours this decade here are the schools with multiple Final fours this decade
Duke
Michigan State
Kentucky
Wisconsin
Louisville
UConn
Syracuse
Butler

We are elite because of this. It is known in fanbases that follow the sport.

 

[Eric15]

Carmelo Anthony and who are the other two?

The Pearl and Devin Brennan-McBride.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If we were 9-0 this season wouldn't be the 3rd in a row we were mediocre.
I don't even know how good Quade Green is. I do know our recruiting since we joined the ACC isn't close to the top of the conference. JB doesn't pursue a lot of the top guys.
The program is going thru a transition as JB is gone next year. Do we have any reason to think we will get better recruits for next year. As if we are mediocre this year and don't get better guards next year will be another mediocre year and that would be 4 mediocre regular seasons in a row. I think we will make the tourney this year but we will be mediocre.

Since we have joined the ACC our recruiting class rankings are 2, 7, 3, and 7 in the ACC according to Jerry Meyer. We are still recruiting with the top of the conference outside of Duke.

 

[Alsacs]

Since we have joined the ACC our recruiting class rankings are 2, 7, 3, and 7 in the ACC according to Jerry Meyer. We are still recruiting with the top of the conference outside of Duke.

That isn't that good for Syracuse. Mike Hopkins can recruit. Autry and McNamara have been feast or famine.
I am a realist not an idealist. We are a national player but the program is in a rocky spot now.

 

[longislandcuse]

My biggest issue is recruiting. I have no clue why we apparently have to concede guys to certain other schools at this point. This seems to be getting worse since we joined the ACC. I thought that would make it better.

The lame/uncreative offense can be hidden by talent. If that talent isn't there than the lack of offensive creativity/focus becomes beyond evident.

The zone. Whatever. Either full court token press and settle back in the zone or don't do it all game. Giving teams 30 seconds to probe every. time. down. is gross basketball.

I do think we can turn it around this year and maybe even 3 ball our way deep into the tournament but that doesn't take away the concern I have for the trajectory of the basketball program if the recruiting and coaching philosophy doesn't change.

 

[Cuse'91]

Last year gave us 2 Final Fours this decade here are the schools with multiple Final fours this decade
Duke
Michigan State
Kentucky
Wisconsin
Louisville
UConn
Syracuse
Butler

We are elite because of this. It is known in fanbases that follow the sport.

Don't think a few on that list are "elite."
When was our last conference regular season championship, conference tournament championship, national championship? Last quality NBA talent?

Edit: You seem to be hanging "elite" status on 2 flukey Final4 appearances where we didn't even win a game at...

 

[tbonezone]

i don't watch nba. but i must say i stopped and watched jerami grant last night for a few minutes and he played great. one more year jerami !

 

[longislandcuse]

i don't watch nba. but i must say i stopped and watched jerami grant last night for a few minutes and he played great. one more year jerami !

He's much better as a pro than I thought he'd be but that's not much to write home about for the program since Melo.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That isn't that good for Syracuse. Mike Hopkins can recruit. Autry and McNamara have been feast or famine.
I am a realist not an idealist. We are a national player but the program is in a rocky spot now.

You said we weren't close to the top of the ACC in recruiting . What do you think the Mal, Lydon, Howard class was last year?

 

[longislandcuse]

You said we weren't close to the top of the ACC in recruiting . What do you think the Mal, Lydon, Howard class was last year?

What was it? In all honesty.. I don't know. It's three 4 star recruits. I'd imagine a few teams in the ACC had better recruiting classes than us.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What was it? In all honesty.. I don't know. It's 3-4 stars. I'd imagine a few team had better recruiting classes than us.

Howard and Lydon were both 4 star players. Mal was 5. I'm not sure where some of you are getting your information from. Duke and Louisville were the only schools graded higher.

 

[Cowtown]

Look, SU is my team regardless, and has been since I was a kid. Today I live almost 2500 miles from Syracuse in a country where hockey is king, and not by just a little. There were long stretches of several years when I never got to see them play at all. For instance, I never got to see Louis and Bowie, Matt Roe or Dave Johnson, I just read about them in SI or The Sporting News. So today, I'm happy every time I get to see them play which is still usually only a few times per year (on-line streaming is usually of poor quality). I'm pleased when they win, and I always get excited about them when the tournament begins and they're in it. I don't need arbitrary statistical benchmarks such as x number of F4's in y number of years, or how many NBA players there are from SU, I'm just pleased when they happen. Some of you need to relax a little and maybe consider how good you have it, instead of lamenting what you don't have. I might feel different if I lived closer and could actually attend games, but I don't, so the reality of being an SU fan is that of being happy whenever they're on the tube. Go Orange.

 

[Alsacs]

You said we weren't close to the top of the ACC in recruiting . What do you think the Mal, Lydon, Howard class was last year?

I would say we have had 2 good recruiting classes out of 4. Syracuse should do better and we should include in our classes more elite prospects. However we have been getting top 30 guys instead of top 10 guys. As because our rotation is smaller any player putting up good stats is leaving early.
Syracuse basketball should be able to recruit top 10 guys.
We need horses not ponies.
I don't think recruiting has been good and I base that off of Francis who I find the best BB recruiting poster who is objective.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I would say we have had 2 good recruiting classes out of 4. Syracuse should do better and we should include in our classes more elite prospects. However we have been getting top 30 guys instead of top 10 guys. As because our rotation is smaller any player putting up good stats is leaving early.
Syracuse basketball should be able to recruit top 10 guys.
We need horses not ponies.
I don't think recruiting has been good and I base that off of Francis who I find the best BB recruiting poster who is objective.

And I follow Francis as well. The biggest issue is this year and all the top guys we missed out on. If Lydon and Battle are back and I think they will be, it's going to be a moot point anyways.

Don't forget that some of the guys we got little out of were top 60 recruits in Joseph and McCullough. Roberson has not developed, that's not bad recruiting, some guys didn't develop. All of the guys I just mentioned were higher rated than Arinze, Wes Johnson, Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, and Brandon Triche.

 

[longislandcuse]

And I follow Francis as well. The biggest issue is this year and all the top guys we missed out on. If Lydon and Battle are back and I think they will be, it's going to be a moot point anyways.

Don't forget that some of the guys we got little out of were top 60 recruits in Joseph and McCullough. Roberson has not developed, that's not bad recruiting, some guys didn't develop. All of the guys I just mentioned were higher rated than Andy Rautins, Scoop Jardine, and Brandon Triche.

I disagree that Roberson wasn't bad recruiting. I'd never recruit an undersized PF who can't shoot ever again unless they're an absolute can't miss beast.