You guys dreaming about new OC's and new offensive systems

[OttoinGrotto]

There's a hell of lot more involved in building back this football program than keeping you entertained.

Not to the people that are needed to fill the Dome. But keep trying to convince yourself otherwise, or that fans shouldn't be as fickle as they are, or that people will come to the Dome because the coach says he needs them to and because the paper says that's why our recruiting isn't better.

I know people don't want to hear this but the program as is right now is completely failing at making a compelling case for 45,000 people to choose to spend their weekend at the Dome. That sure seems to me like a big part of the hell involved in building back the program, as you say. A lot of people here believe that there's a straight line correlation between winning and attendance - I don't think it's a straight line. I think the winning needs an aesthetic quality, otherwise the winning loses impact in the stands. We don't have that aesthetic quality. My personal belief is that people in this case would even prefer that aesthetic quality to winning if the choice is either or.

The good news is that it's not. I think in large part the coaching staff can choose how much of an aesthetic quality they provide by their choice of system. I'm very concerned that Marrone does not believe that the systems that flourish in college that are fan friendly is how football should be played though, and yes, I think the result is to the detriment of the program and that if he persists in using this "multiple system" he has and it proves ineffective, well, let's just call a duck a duck here.

Psst - I'm not talking about ducks. That is meant to be interpreted as let's call a meathead a meathead.

And who says the results won't change?

We have a 30 game sample size right now. In marketing you'd start thinking the trend is pretty much established by this point, give or take. So sure, there's still some wiggle room but enough cases are mounting suggesting that this is what we've got. Doesn't look like the talent is getting better, heck, it might be getting worse. You say the system ain't changing. Well...

I'm going to make a prediction. The offense this season will continue to be subpar. However, much to the delight of the fans the offense will take the step forward from pathetic to average in the 2012 season thanks in large part to having a very seasoned starting QB. This step forward will be fool's gold. In 2013 the team will struggle to develop a new starting QB and will sorely miss the school's all-time leader in receptions and the offense will take a step backwards once again. There are two things that I think can change that outcome - either someone like West, Kobena, Gulley, AAM, Hunt, Cornelius, Macfarlane, etc. turn out be an all-world talent pretty quickly, or the staff looks around the country at the kinds of offenses that produce and they realize they can win and give the fans something fun to watch if they shake things up.

I'm not overly optimistic on either account. Would love to be wrong.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

I don't care about offensive rankings, I think the recruiting is fine, and I am not even all that worried about the attendance. All of that stuff is what it is, and there is nothing you can do about it overnight. All it will take care of itself if Coach has a plan, puts it into practice, and the kids do their best to execute it. The problem is, I haven't really seen much of a plan in place all year, and whatever that plan was, it seemed to completely disappear on Saturday. I have always been behind him, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned. Those calls were not just having a bad day, there was a thought process behind them.

 

[GoSU96]

We have a 30 game sample size right now. In marketing you'd start thinking the trend is pretty much established by this point, give or take. So sure, there's still some wiggle room but enough cases are mounting suggesting that this is what we've got. Doesn't look like the talent is getting better, heck, it might be getting worse. You say the system ain't changing. Well...

I'm going to make a prediction. The offense this season will continue to be subpar. However, much to the delight of the fans the offense will take the step forward from pathetic to average in the 2012 season thanks in large part to having a very seasoned starting QB. This step forward will be fool's gold. In 2013 the team will struggle to develop a new starting QB and will sorely miss the school's all-time leader in receptions and the offense will take a step backwards once again. There are two things that I think can change that outcome - either someone like West, Kobena, Gulley, AAM, Hunt, Cornelius, Macfarlane, etc. turn out be an all-world talent pretty quickly, or the staff looks around the country at the kinds of offenses that produce and they realize they can win and give the fans something fun to watch if they shake things up.

I'm not overly optimistic on either account. Would love to be wrong.

Okay then, we can put you in the camp of if it's not done the way you want, then it's wrong, regardless of outcome.

 

[Millhouse]

We have a 30 game sample size right now. In marketing you'd start thinking the trend is pretty much established by this point, give or take. So sure, there's still some wiggle room but enough cases are mounting suggesting that this is what we've got. Doesn't look like the talent is getting better, heck, it might be getting worse. You say the system ain't changing. Well...

I'm going to make a prediction. The offense this season will continue to be subpar. However, much to the delight of the fans the offense will take the step forward from pathetic to average in the 2012 season thanks in large part to having a very seasoned starting QB. This step forward will be fool's gold. In 2013 the team will struggle to develop a new starting QB and will sorely miss the school's all-time leader in receptions and the offense will take a step backwards once again. There are two things that I think can change that outcome - either someone like West, Kobena, Gulley, AAM, Hunt, Cornelius, Macfarlane, etc. turn out be an all-world talent pretty quickly, or the staff looks around the country at the kinds of offenses that produce and they realize they can win and give the fans something fun to watch if they shake things up.

I'm not overly optimistic on either account. Would love to be wrong.

for a guy who wants people on this board to watch other offenses, you overrate the qb play we're getting. no reason a junior or sophomore in his first year couldn't produce just as much. we have to throw the ball a lot to get 200 yards these days

 

[Millhouse]

I don't care about offensive rankings, I think the recruiting is fine, and I am not even all that worried about the attendance. All of that stuff is what it is, and there is nothing you can do about it overnight. All it will take care of itself if Coach has a plan, puts it into practice, and the kids do their best to execute it. The problem is, I haven't really seen much of a plan in place all year, and whatever that plan was, it seemed to completely disappear on Saturday. I have always been behind him, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very concerned. Those calls were not just having a bad day, there was a thought process behind them.

why don't you care about offensive rankings? do you have a better way of comparing offenses?

 

[sutomcat]

better get used to long term disapointment.

Even if Hackett were to leave, the basic approach isn't going to change much.

Good thread.

I think DM has shown quite a bit of flexibility in his 2.5 years on the job.

His first season here he did a lot of things to try move the ball and score points: the bubble screen Spence offense, the Wildcat, and then late in the year, a wide open pass based attack that got all of us pretty excited.

His second season, the offense was bad, very bad in conference play, but I put a lot of that on a receiving corp that was severely banged up and depleted, to the point that we were playing 5'8 walk ons at WR at times. Chew was a shadow (and his shadow is not very big) of himself the second part of the season and Lemon was clearly not the same player trying to play with a cast and a broken bone in his hand. Once he saw he was not going to be able to pass the ball effectively, DM went to a run dominated ultra conservative offense, and I don't really blame him for that (though the question of why Sales did not play until the bowl game remains...he must have done something that really irked DM to not get any PT all that time when his help was desperately needed).

No question the gameplan on offense against RU was not well conceived. I don't think Hackett anticipated them jumping the short routes so aggressively...he didn't have an answer for this all game long. He probably should have since he saw it a lot last season.

Everyone has film. We all know we are going to see the other conference teams playing us tight, taking away the short stuff and pressuring us, much like RU or WF did this year, or everyone in the conference did last year.

Are we going to be reduced to running a power run game the rest of the season (post Tulane) and hoping we can win 13-10?
Last year, the WRs were so messed up, I don't think it was possible to throw the ball much downfield to counteract an aggressive defense willing to gamble on getting beat deep to take away the short stuff. This year, I think we are much better positioned to make teams pay that try this kind of defensive approach. We aren't where we need to be...definitely need more depth at WR and a couple of real play makers would be a big help. But we have the personnel (at least for now, knock on wood) to do some damage and with Tulane being Tulane (no offense Green Wavers), we have 2 weeks to work on it.

I think if the key players all stay healthy, the offense will do significantly better in conference play than last season. If it doesn't, changes may need to be made. Like others in this thread have said, if there is one thing DM has shown, it is that he is willing to change to get results. I think he will do what is necessary to make the offense work.

A couple of other things:

I know DM would like to have a QB that can run with the ball, both on designed plays and on broken plays. He is on record saying that he has told Nassib not to run unless absolutely necessary. It might be partly because he doesn't think Ryan is as fast or agile as a dual threat QB would ideally be, but I think it is mostly because of the big dropoff we currently have from our first string QB to the backups (that is what DM implied). I don't think it is a coincidence we have recruited a number of big kids with strong arms, speed and agility...DM knows this type of athlete at QB gives him more options on offense and he wants this in place.

Lastly, regarding the concerns about DM's ability to recruit skill players on the offensive side of the ball. It is true not many of his recruits have made an impact thus far at the skilled positions on offense, but if you look at where the top athletes in the DM classes have gone, you will find that the vast majority have ended up on the defensive side of the ball.

Guys like S Thomas, P Thomas, Davis, Spruill, Lynch, Lyn and now Reddish, Simmons, Eskridge and Desire are all among the best athletes on the team, all could have helped on offense but were put on the defensive side instead. Not sure why the defense has been getting so many of the best athletes...maybe it is because Shafer is one of our best recruiters. It appears that the guys he gets, he gets to keep.

No question we need to do better there. Pretty sure Devante McFarlane will end up playing on offense. That alone will help.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Good thread.

I think DM has shown quite a bit of flexibility in his 2.5 years on the job.

His first season here he did a lot of things to try move the ball and score points: the bubble screen Spence offense, the Wildcat, and then late in the year, a wide open pass based attack that got all of us pretty excited.

His second season, the offense was bad, very bad in conference play, but I put a lot of that on a receiving corp that was severely banged up and depleted, to the point that we were playing 5'8 walk ons at WR at times. Chew was a shadow (and his shadow is not very big) of himself the second part of the season and Lemon was clearly not the same player trying to play with a cast and a broken bone in his hand. Once he saw he was not going to be able to pass the ball effectively, DM went to a run dominated ultra conservative offense, and I don't really blame him for that (though the question of why Sales did not play until the bowl game remains...he must have done something that really irked DM to not get any PT all that time when his help was desperately needed).

No question the gameplan on offense against RU was not well conceived. I don't think Hackett anticipated them jumping the short routes so aggressively...he didn't have an answer for this all game long. He probably should have since he saw it a lot last season.

Everyone has film. We all know we are going to see the other conference teams playing us tight, taking away the short stuff and pressuring us, much like RU or WF did this year, or everyone in the conference did last year.

Are we going to be reduced to running a power run game the rest of the season (post Tulane) and hoping we can win 13-10?
Last year, the WRs were so messed up, I don't think it was possible to throw the ball much downfield to counteract an aggressive defense willing to gamble on getting beat deep to take away the short stuff. This year, I think we are much better positioned to make teams pay that try this kind of defensive approach. We aren't where we need to be...definitely need more depth at WR and a couple of real play makers would be a big help. But we have the personnel (at least for now, knock on wood) to do some damage and with Tulane being Tulane (no offense Green Wavers), we have 2 weeks to work on it.

I think if the key players all stay healthy, the offense will do significantly better in conference play than last season. If it doesn't, changes may need to be made. Like others in this thread have said, if there is one thing DM has shown, it is that he is willing to change to get results. I think he will do what is necessary to make the offense work.

A couple of other things:

I know DM would like to have a QB that can run with the ball, both on designed plays and on broken plays. He is on record saying that he has told Nassib not to run unless absolutely necessary. It might be partly because he doesn't think Ryan is as fast or agile as a dual threat QB would ideally be, but I think it is mostly because of the big dropoff we currently have from our first string QB to the backups (that is what DM implied). I don't think it is a coincidence we have recruited a number of big kids with strong arms, speed and agility...DM knows this type of athlete at QB gives him more options on offense and he wants this in place.

Lastly, regarding the concerns about DM's ability to recruit skill players on the offensive side of the ball. It is true not many of his recruits have made an impact thus far at the skilled positions on offense, but if you look at where the top athletes in the DM classes have gone, you will find that the vast majority have ended up on the defensive side of the ball.

Guys like S Thomas, P Thomas, Davis, Spruill, Lynch, Lyn and now Reddish, Simmons, Eskridge and Desire are all among the best athletes on the team, all could have helped on offense but were put on the defensive side instead. Not sure why the defense has been getting so many of the best athletes...maybe it is because Shafer is one of our best recruiters. It appears that the guys he gets, he gets to keep.

No question we need to do better there. Pretty sure Devante McFarlane will end up playing on offense. That alone will help.

Great post and my whole point is whatever gets our offense to competent, ie; top 40-50 then fine do it. I don't think that is unreasonable but until you do that we will never be really any good and we will sit around every year white knuckling every game praying we don't have a slip up versus a lessor foe like a Tulane and then hoping now that we can somehow eek out 2-3 conference wins, trying to get bowl eligible. The reason for this is because our offense sucks so bad, we need great games to beat good teams and we need good games to beat Tulane by couple of TD's

Nassib leaves a lot of plays out on the field versus BSC competition as well way to many bad passes, with competent offense nobody on our schedule is unbeatable but you need to be able to score 28 to 38 points this day and age to combat some of these high powered offenses, asking your D to shut everyone down won't work

The people who thought we could go 8-4 this year also predicted a much improved offense, the two go hand in hand. Now we are still only 1 loss behing where many thought we would be.. Still a ton of football to be played.

 

[Millhouse]

Good thread.

I think DM has shown quite a bit of flexibility in his 2.5 years on the job.

His first season here he did a lot of things to try move the ball and score points: the bubble screen Spence offense, the Wildcat, and then late in the year, a wide open pass based attack that got all of us pretty excited.

His second season, the offense was bad, very bad in conference play, but I put a lot of that on a receiving corp that was severely banged up and depleted, to the point that we were playing 5'8 walk ons at WR at times. Chew was a shadow (and his shadow is not very big) of himself the second part of the season and Lemon was clearly not the same player trying to play with a cast and a broken bone in his hand. Once he saw he was not going to be able to pass the ball effectively, DM went to a run dominated ultra conservative offense, and I don't really blame him for that (though the question of why Sales did not play until the bowl game remains...he must have done something that really irked DM to not get any PT all that time when his help was desperately needed).

No question the gameplan on offense against RU was not well conceived. I don't think Hackett anticipated them jumping the short routes so aggressively...he didn't have an answer for this all game long. He probably should have since he saw it a lot last season.

Everyone has film. We all know we are going to see the other conference teams playing us tight, taking away the short stuff and pressuring us, much like RU or WF did this year, or everyone in the conference did last year.

Are we going to be reduced to running a power run game the rest of the season (post Tulane) and hoping we can win 13-10?
Last year, the WRs were so messed up, I don't think it was possible to throw the ball much downfield to counteract an aggressive defense willing to gamble on getting beat deep to take away the short stuff. This year, I think we are much better positioned to make teams pay that try this kind of defensive approach. We aren't where we need to be...definitely need more depth at WR and a couple of real play makers would be a big help. But we have the personnel (at least for now, knock on wood) to do some damage and with Tulane being Tulane (no offense Green Wavers), we have 2 weeks to work on it.

I think if the key players all stay healthy, the offense will do significantly better in conference play than last season. If it doesn't, changes may need to be made. Like others in this thread have said, if there is one thing DM has shown, it is that he is willing to change to get results. I think he will do what is necessary to make the offense work.

A couple of other things:

I know DM would like to have a QB that can run with the ball, both on designed plays and on broken plays. He is on record saying that he has told Nassib not to run unless absolutely necessary. It might be partly because he doesn't think Ryan is as fast or agile as a dual threat QB would ideally be, but I think it is mostly because of the big dropoff we currently have from our first string QB to the backups (that is what DM implied). I don't think it is a coincidence we have recruited a number of big kids with strong arms, speed and agility...DM knows this type of athlete at QB gives him more options on offense and he wants this in place.

Lastly, regarding the concerns about DM's ability to recruit skill players on the offensive side of the ball. It is true not many of his recruits have made an impact thus far at the skilled positions on offense, but if you look at where the top athletes in the DM classes have gone, you will find that the vast majority have ended up on the defensive side of the ball.

Guys like S Thomas, P Thomas, Davis, Spruill, Lynch, Lyn and now Reddish, Simmons, Eskridge and Desire are all among the best athletes on the team, all could have helped on offense but were put on the defensive side instead. Not sure why the defense has been getting so many of the best athletes...maybe it is because Shafer is one of our best recruiters. It appears that the guys he gets, he gets to keep.

No question we need to do better there. Pretty sure Devante McFarlane will end up playing on offense. That alone will help.

even with the receivers in shambles, they got open downfield here and there during that awful november stretch but the only people that could catch them were backup syracuse linebackers on the sidelines

 

[billsin01]

I am late to this thread and much of what I feel has been posted. But I just want to point out a couple things:

1. I, for one, would be fine with ANY offense that moved the ball for the most part and was built to succeed on a short field and in the red zone. If that's wishbone, fine. If that's Mike Leach territory, fine. If it's pro style, fine. If it's multiple and we end up, once and for all, defining to the rest of the football world what multiple means, then fine. But I agree with the general sentiment that we can't bank on shutting teams down each week as a long-term plan (not saying that is the plan but just making the point that we need to improve significantly on offense to get where we want to go).

2. I agree that 30 games (overall) and half a season (this year) are enough to suggest a trend of offensive struggles. This offense could turn it around the last seven games, but I'd say the chances of seeing an offense that puts up close to 30 ppg, and routinely piles up somewhere around 300 yards are extremely slim.

3. Marrone has shown himself to be flexible in some ways so I'm not sure why we should prime ourselves for his settling for mediocrity if not worse from his offense.

4. The recruiting hasn't lit the world on fire, but I don't find it TOO concerning, particularly with our conference situation being resolved.

5. If SU has to increase the coaching budget to bring in a better OC (not entirely hammering Hackett, just saying "if" they feel this is the right move) after the season, I have no idea why they wouldn't do so. If you're going to make decisions for your entire fan base, identity and every athletics program based on football, then you better make the full commitment to getting football the support it needs.

 

[BlueCurtain]

The offense needs a quarterback who is a threat to run, and has designed plays to make use of this dimension. It doesn't necessarily need to be a spread - but Rich Rodriguez implemented that system in West Va. many moons ago because he felt it could work even with linemen who just have to sort of "get in the way" of defenders.

Marrone should explain why he thinks the pro-style is the best fit for this personnel. Break it down for us and maybe we will give some more slack.

 

[SmilinBob]

I just want to win games, plain and simple and however that happens is fine with me.

My feeling is that all gloves are off now, the defense has to hold itself up and now has the ability to do so and if and only if this is true, the offense was more worried about ball control and running the clock to help the defense, it's time to stop and do whatever they have to do to score and the key to me is the oline giving Nassib more time to make decisions. I still feel that the receivers are not getting open quickly enough so the extra time will help balance this. If the running game can still put up some decent numbers, that too will give Nassib some time as long as any blitzes are picked up.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The offense needs a quarterback who is a threat to run, and has designed plays to make use of this dimension. It doesn't necessarily need to be a spread - but Rich Rodriguez implemented that system in West Va. many moons ago because he felt it could work even with linemen who just have to sort of "get in the way" of defenders.

Marrone should explain why he thinks the pro-style is the best fit for this personnel. Break it down for us and maybe we will give some more slack.

He really doesn't need to explain his reasoning but we really don't need to explain why his offense ing blows in year 3, the proof is on the field and in the numbers.. Like I said, asking for an average offense isn't unreasonable at this point in the game, the same excuses that existed 2 years ago exist today..

If I was a reporter, I would ask the coach, what his plan is, what type of offense is he running, why it has been so ineffective versus BSC competition, why there seems to be little to no improvement in year 3, why we seem to be making the same mistakes that we have always made, why we can't counter a defense that pressures and takes away the short pass, why he continues to use bailey 90% of the time when he has put the ball on the ground so much. We either have an enormous scheme problem or a recruiting problem or both... Why the line has been such an issue in year 3, etc etc. People are afraid of the guy if you ask me and many have annointed him the savior prematurely, he has done a ton of good but he needs to straighten out the offense or we will never get any better. Its pointless really, Gross will be asking these questions at the end of the year if we don't make a bowl game. Whe he promised us tempo on offense but don't get it, etc etc etc. Marrone has gone into a shell

 

[Faegan]

Good thread.

No question the gameplan on offense against RU was not well conceived. I don't think Hackett anticipated them jumping the short routes so aggressively...he didn't have an answer for this all game long. He probably should have since he saw it a lot last season.

I was surprised not to see some plays designed to have Nassib double pump when they were jumping routes. He had done that a few times earlier in the season.

I know DM would like to have a QB that can run with the ball, both on designed plays and on broken plays. He is on record saying that he has told Nassib not to run unless absolutely necessary. It might be partly because he doesn't think Ryan is as fast or agile as a dual threat QB would ideally be, but I think it is mostly because of the big dropoff we currently have from our first string QB to the backups (that is what DM implied). I don't think it is a coincidence we have recruited a number of big kids with strong arms, speed and agility...DM knows this type of athlete at QB gives him more options on offense and he wants this in place.

Will be interesting to see who will get the call behind Nassib next year. Hunt? Broyld? Kinder? Who is the most mobile? From what I have seen, it looks like Hunt has the best arm and Broyld is the best pure athlete and the most mobile. Broyld's passing mechanics need work.

Lastly, regarding the concerns about DM's ability to recruit skill players on the offensive side of the ball. It is true not many of his recruits have made an impact thus far at the skilled positions on offense, but if you look at where the top athletes in the DM classes have gone, you will find that the vast majority have ended up on the defensive side of the ball... Not sure why the defense has been getting so many of the best athletes...maybe it is because Shafer is one of our best recruiters. It appears that the guys he gets, he gets to keep.

This can't go on forever. We need to be able to put points on the pharking board.

No question we need to do better there. Pretty sure Devante McFarlane will end up playing on offense. That alone will help.

Will we be able to keep McFarlane on board? I hope so because he is NEEDED.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Okay then, we can put you in the camp of if it's not done the way you want, then it's wrong, regardless of outcome.

If that's what you took from my post we can put you in the camp of people with sucky reading comprehension.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

for a guy who wants people on this board to watch other offenses, you overrate the qb play we're getting. no reason a junior or sophomore in his first year couldn't produce just as much. we have to throw the ball a lot to get 200 yards these days

I guess I think Nassib this year is better than Nassib last year, and that Nassib next year will be better than Nassib this year.

It's insane thinking, I know.

 

[Millhouse]

I guess I think Nassib this year is better than Nassib last year, and that Nassib next year will be better than Nassib this year.

It's insane thinking, I know.

being better than he is now doesn't neccessarily make them anywhere close to average.

we both agree he'll probably be better next year. most college players get better. you watered down your point.

we disagree over where he is now. which is why i think it's funny that you tell everyone to watch other games. your average improvement from junior to senior year is not going to bring this offense up to average.

 

[kingottoiii]

being better than he is now doesn't neccessarily make them anywhere close to average.

we both agree he'll probably be better next year. most college players get better.

we disagree over where he is now. which is why i think it's funny that you tell everyone to watch other games. your average improvement from junior to senior year is not going to bring this offense up to average.

Back to bashing Nassib Oh Lord The kid is clearly the third best QB in the BE. And if Geno Smith were the SU QB our O might even look worse, as Geno's strengths would be minimized by our system and his weaknesses amplified. We better change our system ASAP. Because Broyld, Hunt, and Kinder are awful fits for our system. They will make Nassib look like Montana.

 

[Chip]

Back to bashing Nassib Oh Lord The kid is clearly the third best QB in the BE. And if Geno Smith were the SU QB our O might even look worse, as Geno's strengths would be minimized by our system and his weaknesses amplified. We better change our system ASAP. Because Broyld, Hunt, and Kinder are awful fits for our system. They will make Nassib look like Montana.

Tend to agree. Did anyone watch Geno Smith throw the ball against us last year? Children have looked better. Suddenly he's an efficient 400 yard per game passer.

If everything is broken (system isn't great, playcalling isn't making a lot of sense, RB can't hold the ball, OL collectively isn't very good, WRs have no YAC ability, WRs can't get off bump, QB isn't accurate enough), it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to focus on the QB part. Leach and his disciples are showing that they make QBs, QBs don't make them.

 

[Millhouse]

Back to bashing Nassib Oh Lord The kid is clearly the third best QB in the BE. And if Geno Smith were the SU QB our O might even look worse, as Geno's strengths would be minimized by our system and his weaknesses amplified. We better change our system ASAP. Because Broyld, Hunt, and Kinder are awful fits for our system. They will make Nassib look like Montana.

Big deal what the ranking of big east qbs are.

but fwiw i'd take collaros, sunseri, and smith over nassib. jury is out on louisville, i don't know what they're doing. after than you're left with a bunch of unwatchable scrubs (the uconn student body, dodd, us, bj)

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Big deal what the ranking of big east qbs are.

but fwiw i'd take collaros, sunseri, and smith over nassib. jury is out on louisville, i don't know what they're doing. after than you're left with a bunch of unwatchable scrubs (the uconn student body, dodd, us, bj)

agree its not exactly a murderers row of qb play, at least our league isn't. Sunseri moves better than Nassib. I would say that Nassib is 4th or 5th, probably about on Daniels level, another kid who is good versus 1AA teams

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If everything is broken (system isn't great, playcalling isn't making a lot of sense, RB can't hold the ball, OL collectively isn't very good, WRs have no YAC ability, WRs can't get off bump, QB isn't accurate enough), it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to focus on the QB part. Leach and his disciples are showing that they make QBs, QBs don't make them.

This makes sense to me.

 

[billsin01]

Big deal what the ranking of big east qbs are.

but fwiw i'd take collaros, sunseri, and smith over nassib. jury is out on louisville, i don't know what they're doing. after than you're left with a bunch of unwatchable scrubs (the uconn student body, dodd, us, bj)

I don't know. I'd argue that you could very easily make a case for Nassib over sunseri. I'll grant smith and collaros, but Sunseri didn't throw 20 TDs last year (16, four of those vs. SU) and is on pace for just 12 this season. He also has thrown 13 picks in the last season and a half. And he's done that with the benefit of Jonathan Baldwin (last year), Devin Street, a good offensive line and a great running game. I'm taking Nassib in that battle.

 

[Millhouse]

Tend to agree. Did anyone watch Geno Smith throw the ball against us last year? Children have looked better. Suddenly he's an efficient 400 yard per game passer.

If everything is broken (system isn't great, playcalling isn't making a lot of sense, RB can't hold the ball, OL collectively isn't very good, WRs have no YAC ability, WRs can't get off bump, QB isn't accurate enough), it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to focus on the QB part. Leach and his disciples are showing that they make QBs, QBs don't make them.

bad qbs in bad systems should still be able to complete a deep pass from time to time when guys happen to be wide open

 

[IthacaBarrel]

bad qbs in bad systems should still be able to complete a deep pass from time to time when guys happen to be wide open

Agreed, he misses them on a consistent basis, but hey he has a strong arm!!! I can hit a golf ball 3oo yards doesn't mean I am a good golfer!

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know. I'd argue that you could very easily make a case for Nassib over sunseri. I'll grant smith and collaros, but Sunseri didn't throw 20 TDs last year (16, four of those vs. SU) and is on pace for just 12 this season. He also has thrown 13 picks in the last season and a half. And he's done that with the benefit of Jonathan Baldwin (last year), Devin Street, a good offensive line and a great running game. I'm taking Nassib in that battle.

fwiw sunseri had 1 more td than nassib did against AQ schools last year

don't get fooled by new england fcs teams