You guys dreaming about new OC's and new offensive systems | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

You guys dreaming about new OC's and new offensive systems

My only two cents for this topic: If there is one thing I have learned while watching College Football, you are never going to have success with an NFL Lite offense at this level, having a QB like Andrew Luck notwithstanding.
 
Millhouse said:
any bad team could say that. bad offenses have more 3 and outs. good offenses have less.
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Yes, but it's still true. We're one good drive per game from being a "Top 50" offense by these measures. I don't see that as being very far away. Our numbers against Wake Forest, USC, and Toledo were better than our averages... the numbers against Rhode Island were lower because we had less opportunities because we couldn't get off the field on 3rd down on defense and had too many unsustained drives. We obviously know the story on Rutgers... we had tons of opportunities to score points and gain more yards but handed them the ball FIVE times.
 
I think too many are looking at this one dimensionally. I look at teams that win the championship or at worst are competing for it and I see teams that have balance on offense and play good to very good defense in most years. I want to win games. Hey, I'd love to win 56-0 every time but we don't pay enough, let anyone in and have the big crowds that draw that type of team. I think the more 4.4 guys we get, and looking at the D I see the O getting it's share from here, the more we will score. If we can continue to brake tackles and now get guys that can't be caught once they turn on the jets, the numbers will flow that make people happy.
 
GoSU96 said:
Why not put a stake in the ground now?
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I think I've beaten my thoughts on Nassib into the ground, but if you'd like for me to officially state them now, then why not.

Nassib has obviously improved from last season. He's much more confident, he makes good short to intermediate passes (not withstanding his two INTs straight to Rutgers LB and DL last week).

But he's still not the answer if you want a team to make the Top 25 and win a conference championship, or even be in contention. Until he proves that he can throw for over 250 yards (hell, I'd even go as far as to say 225) on less than 40 attempts against an AQ school on a consistent basis, I will continue to feel this way.
 
SUFan44 said:
I think I've beaten my thoughts on Nassib into the ground, but if you'd like for me to officially state them now, then why not.

Nassib has obviously improved from last season. He's much more confident, he makes good short to intermediate passes (not withstanding his two INTs straight to Rutgers LB and DL last week).

But he's still not the answer if you want a team to make the Top 25 and win a conference championship, or even be in contention. Until he proves that he can throw for over 250 yards (hell, I'd even go as far as to say 225) on less than 40 attempts against an AQ school on a consistent basis, I will continue to feel this way.
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Um it isn't just the QB that is holding us back from the Top 25. "Not the answer" is silly when we are where we are. We could have McNabb here and we wouldn't be much better. And why do people talk long term? Sure he isn't a long term solution. This isn't the NFL. There is no long term in CFB. He will be gone before you know it.
 
SmilinBob said:
I think too many are looking at this one dimensionally. I look at teams that win the championship or at worst are competing for it and I see teams that have balance on offense and play good to very good defense in most years. I want to win games. Hey, I'd love to win 56-0 every time but we don't pay enough, let anyone in and have the big crowds that draw that type of team. I think the more 4.4 guys we get, and looking at the D I see the O getting it's share from here, the more we will score. If we can continue to brake tackles and now get guys that can't be caught once they turn on the jets, the numbers will flow that make people happy.
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we have the good defense part down. lots of spread offenses in national championship games. texas, florida, oklahoma, auburn, oregon. usc and alabama are more conventional on offense but i'm convinced they'd win with any offense. lsu has no offense.

EDIT not that i'm even thinking about national championship games at all. i just figure if oklahoma doesn't bother with pro style (they can do whatever they want!), why do we?

in the big east, the spread has been very successful. starting in 05 WVU, louisville with petrino, wvu, cincy cincy . uconn was an exception last year in a down year.

more of these teams spread it out and run bread and butter simple offenses. they aren't that multiple and don't resemble pro offenses. I prefer the air raid because i think we'd fill a niche and i think it's more consistent from year to year by not requiring a good runner at qb. but more than anything i want simplicity and fast guys in space.
 
SUFan44 said:
I think I've beaten my thoughts on Nassib into the ground, but if you'd like for me to officially state them now, then why not.

Nassib has obviously improved from last season. He's much more confident, he makes good short to intermediate passes (not withstanding his two INTs straight to Rutgers LB and DL last week).

But he's still not the answer if you want a team to make the Top 25 and win a conference championship, or even be in contention. Until he proves that he can throw for over 250 yards (hell, I'd even go as far as to say 225) on less than 40 attempts against an AQ school on a consistent basis, I will continue to feel this way.
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What a ridiculous string of parameters. There were 8 AQ QB's that met that criteria last year. There were six non-AQ QB's but they only faced 3 AQ opponents at the most so that failed one of your tests.

There are a lot of reasons why this team isn't a top 25 team, Nassib is the least of the problems.
 
Andy Reid has all the trick plays and horses to go with it "enough said". Go 2 tight ends with a Fullback and running back and gain 6 " inside the 1 for a first down. If you can't run the Ball you will not win ......
Coach Marrone spends 2 much time with the play sheet in front of his face and talking upstairs.
He needs to be encourageing or getting on the players. This is not the NFL,Coach Mac knew how to run a team and he wasn't a Guru. :(
 
In 2008 Marrone was the OC of a offesne that ahd a good quarterback, some good receivers and Reggie Bush as their top running back. They passed the ball 646 times and ran it 398 times. He's on a different level now and we are dealing with Ryan Nassib and Antwon Bailey but on this elvel that's a similar situaiotn and the pass to run ratio should reflect that. It's presently 160-149 for the season but in the last two games it's 57-73. The offense was supposed to be caryring the defesne this year but it can't do that if we go away from our strength and towards our weakness. Nassib was 74 for 101, (73%) with one interception in the first three games when we were firing away. Since we decided to "establish the running game to set up the pass" he's 31/57, (54%) with three picks. This is a passing team and it needs to act like it.
 
I don't care about the system or the qb just get me to top 50. I am just pretty confident we won't get there with this system or this qb... Nassib may gets to 65-70 next year but that would be it. No way Marrone can run this system with kinder, broyld or hunt in my opinion, they are athletes playing the qb position. I think Marrone will change the system a bit for these guys don't know if he goes all in as that would be an NFL guy admitting that all this wisdom is not working in college on offense. Its just how NFL guys are. Didn't work for a ton of guys..
 
GoSU96 said:
What a ridiculous string of parameters. There were 8 AQ QB's that met that criteria last year. There were six non-AQ QB's but they only faced 3 AQ opponents at the most so that failed one of your tests.

There are a lot of reasons why this team isn't a top 25 team, Nassib is the least of the problems.
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i don't care how many attempts it takes to get a lot of yards. the goal is to get a lot of yards. i'll bring up the number of attempts when we need 30+ passes to get 180 yards passing, but that's just a way of pointing out that the lack of yards wasn't for lack of trying

i do appreciate that you are looking at AQ schools, i really think it's the right way to look at this stuff. september is too screwy across the board.

it's worth noting that andrew luck threw 29 times a game for 251. i am as sold on luck as i've ever been on any player - totally convinced he's a hall of famer. but 251 isn't off the charts. there aren't that many teams throwing like mad - lots of spread rushing attacks. part of the reason i like the air raid - teams see less of it

people are way too cavalier in this thread about what 50-60 yards in a game means. ho hum, just stop screwing up the 3 and outs. on the flip side, saying ho hum he's just 30-40 yards too low, that's not that big a deal would be equally wrong

nassib last year was 29 attempts for 168 per game against AQ
 

OK, so, I have a question, where is the middle-ground? Many people complain about the system, and many people complain about the players' talent level... and often from the same camp. People complained about Carter, and he ends up #3 all-time in rushing yards here. Nassib is a high-debate candidate, and was flat-out hated by many last year. Meanwhile he has a shot at being the record-holder in all-time passing yards by the time he graduates. And the competency of our receivers has come under fire, but Provo has a shot at topping 1,000 for his career, Chew has a shot at cracking the top-ten in receiving yards, and Lemon could very realistically sit top-3 by the time he is done. And that's all while sharing the same ball for the majority of their careers.

If the players suck, then the system must be improving. If the system sucks, the players must be at least be decent talents. I personally think it's a case of both the talent and system getting better, but more gradually than we would like to see it. We are fans, we are allowed to be greedy... I know I certainly am getting greedy to see Marrone act a little less Andy Griffith and a little more Rex Ryan... at least on the field, if not in press conferences.
 
OrangeMuskyFish said:
OK, so, I have a question, where is the middle-ground? Many people complain about the system, and many people complain about the players' talent level... and often from the same camp. People complained about Carter, and he ends up #3 all-time in rushing yards here. Nassib is a high-debate candidate, and was flat-out hated by many last year. Meanwhile he has a shot at being the record-holder in all-time passing yards by the time he graduates. And the competency of our receivers has come under fire, but Provo has a shot at topping 1,000 for his career, Chew has a shot at cracking the top-ten in receiving yards, and Lemon could very realistically sit top-3 by the time he is done. And that's all while sharing the same ball for the majority of their careers.

If the players suck, then the system must be improving. If the system sucks, the players must be at least be decent talents. I personally think it's a case of both the talent and system getting better, but more gradually than we would like to see it. We are fans, we are allowed to be greedy... I know I certainly am getting greedy to see Marrone act a little less Andy Griffith and a little more Rex Ryan... at least on the field, if not in press conferences.
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all you're proving is that numbers from different eras aren't remotely comparable. compare to other players now. last year 81 guys ran for more yards than ernie davis did when he won the heisman. meaningless.

too self-referential.
 
Millhouse said:
all you're proving is that numbers from different eras aren't remotely comparable. compare to other players now. last year 81 guys ran for more yards than ernie davis did when he won the heisman. meaningless.

too self-referential.
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I totally get you, which is why we definitely aren't even remotely close to where we want to be... but you also can't just ignore the difference as improvement either. I think that it would be just as foolish for you to dismiss where we are coming from, as it would be for me to completely ignore where college football as a whole is going.
 
OrangeMuskyFish said:
I totally get you, which is why we definitely aren't even remotely close to where we want to be... but you also can't just ignore the difference as improvement either. I think that it would be just as foolish for you to dismiss where we are coming from, as it would be for me to completely ignore where college football as a whole is going.
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if you start comparing to where everyone is coming from, then you'll think that everyone is better now everywhere.
 
Doug is a good head coach. He is not in my opinion a very good OC. I hope that we go out and hire the best we can next year. I would keep Hacket as a position coach possibly QB coach
 
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