Zag Postgame Thoughts...

[CuseTG2003]

Basically just witnessing a continuation of the downward spiral we’ve been on the last few years. This is why we needed a total reset. Same stuff. Can’t rebound, all iso, can’t shoot, and now even worse defense with the man to man. This is going to be a disaster unless we can get the elite athletes we used to, which we can’t.

Yep. Minus the M2M, this team looks no different than JB's teams in his last decade (i.e., lesser talent & poorly coached).

 

[Cuse181]

I currently believe us to be.

Then you didn't actually watch his Louisville team his first year.

 

[Cuse House]

I need one of you people to walk me back from the ledge. We look terrible. Any decent center will crush us. I do not even want to think what Duke will do to us.

I walked back from the ledge a few years ago. The programs been down for awhile now and with that so are my expectations. I still believe this can be a tournament team, but it starts with effort and attitude. Our guys just seem not to care as much. For example, we were down 10 or so and Judah is on the bench laughing with Copeland. There is no competitive edge with this team. We need an Eric Devendorf type guy on this team to light a fire.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think taking away playing time is the only way to have an impact on them. I would rather watch 5 walk-ons actually run an offense than what we see everytime down the floor. I have never seen a group of more selfish players all on one team.

Well, there won't be any discipline if the HC doesn't require it.

"This is the pass I want you to make in that situation."

"This is the right opportunity for a shot."

Make them do it, before it's too late.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We got beat by 20 on the boards. Wow. Not going to win many games until that gets a lot better. Yes, I get that these are good teams, but we did not have the effort vs. Gonzaga that we did vs. Tennessee.

 

[sweetpea]

Does anyone believe Syracuse is a good three point shooting team? Will some one tell the team to stop shooting threes and move in closer to the basket and hopefully score.

It would be nice if we had a point guard who could penetrate and set up his inside players to score sort like the way Gonzaga guards did.

Our guards penetrate and either throw the ball up at the back board (and fall to the ground hoping for the foul call) or pass the ball out to our higher percentage scoring three point shooters.

Come On Syracuse, try to win at least one game in this tournament. Tired of watching the team be down 15 points in the first half. inside players can't really score

Our inside players can't really score

 

[dcw914]

Two things can be true at once. You can recognize that Red is a mere 5 games into his coaching career and we need patience with him, his team, and this program. I get that is really hard to do for a fan base desperate for success but it is what it is at this point. You can also recognize that this is currently a poorly coached basketball team and I don't think that's really debatable after these last two games.

Ultimately though, if I told you before the season started that we'd be 4-2 after Maui, I think most would be okay with that. Yea, woulda been nice to steal one against a top team like Tenn or Gonzaga but they're just a lot better than us right now. The pressure is on, Red has to get this team to improve on both sides of the ball or things are going to get really ugly. This stretch before ACC play will likely define our season.

I mentioned it in the game thread but going to keep hammering how it was an unbelievably bad scouting personnel decision to bring in Naheem as the primary center. If this team had one competent big man who could move, rebound, and defend, it would realllly make a difference. The rebounding is somehow worse than past years playing only zone, that's absolutely bananas and it makes me want to gauge my eyes out. I think we were down 5-6 at one point with a handful of minutes left, closing in, zags missed a shot, I swear there were 4 (!!!!) players under the basket and their wing swooped in and took the rebound away, kicked it out to the corner, zags splashed a three... that was demoralizing for the team and we proceeded to snowball after that.

Those are things that lose games. It's the difference in putting ourselves in position to win tough games against good competition vs not. Rebounding is absolutely MADDENING and would argue it's the single most important factor we have to get better in... which unfortunately I'm most skeptical in that area of improvement.

 

[FloridaCuse]

They’re a D2 team.

D3

 

[oTTo113445]

6 Sophmores playing big minutes, 7 if you count Mcleod and worst of all Benny missing again. They believe in one on one ball, but haven't had the experience to make things happen without being coached.

 

[sweetpea]

Then you didn't actually watch his Louisville team his first year.

I did watch them. I would think we win more than 4 games, but today's effort looked exactly like it to me. Let's hope my in the moment comment is way off for christ sakes.

 

[UpstateSM]

We are Syracuse Basketball. Red gets a little leeway but I'm not cutting him much slack. Fair or not, that is the deal when you're named the head coach at a school where 35k come to watch you in the dead of upstate NY winter.

This is big boy college sports and there are programs where you are expected to perform and we are one of them. I thought Tennessee was a step forward but we just took 10 steps back. And that is after three poor performances to start the season. Put up or shut up when you make many millions of dollars to coach at a big time P5 school.

 

[UpstateSM]

6 Sophmores playing big minutes, 7 if you count Mcleod and worst of all Benny missing again. They believe in one on one ball, but haven't had the experience to make things happen without being coached.

Most of those sophomores played plenty of meaningful minutes as freshman. Youth isn't an excuse.

 

[kingtidge]

Basically just witnessing a continuation of the downward spiral we’ve been on the last few years. This is why we needed a total reset. Same stuff. Can’t rebound, all iso, can’t shoot, and now even worse defense with the man to man. This is going to be a disaster unless we can get the elite athletes we used to, which we can’t.

If it's this dire by Feb, I will start getting officially worried.

Even if we're still a rough watch, we should at least see the team trying to do different things that Red and his coaches have implemented. Hopefully some of it will work and show progression. Some of it might not work right away or be poorly executed and that is OK, but we should see a team doing different things.

If we're doing nothing different, the blinking hazard lights will officially be on at that point.

 

[SDjohn]

Effort and basketball IQ are seriously lacking overall. Two possessions in a row, we throw away a basic inbounds play leading to a layup and then Copeland tries to make some sort of no look pass and takes five steps to do so, turning it over…again.

Bells lack of effort is something that cannot be allowed to happen, especially with a first year coach. Think about the message it sends, you don’t HAVE to play D or rebound here at SU even as a FORWARD, just shoot. Sorry, that’s not gonna play unless we want more one dimensional shooters who can’t rebound or play D. I’m sure Bell has given up more points allowed not rebounding or letting every player he guards go bye him like he’s not there.

Bells not the only one with the lack of effort though, Benny’s done the same the last 2 years. Two forwards who can’t guard their man, is not a good thing.

Basketball IQ is often underrated IMO. This team makes inbounding the ball hard. How does a basic basketball play, you learned in your first year in youth basketball become a turnover waiting to happen?

If you decided to make the next SU game a drinking contest, take a shot every time you see one of the 6 things below happen. You’d have alcohol poisoning by the end of the first half.


1. Bell gets beat by his defender. You may not make it to the first TV timeout.

2. Inbounds play that results in a TO or near TO.

3. Two or 3 SU defenders go for the block they don’t get they fall over each other crashing to the floor leading to an easy offensive board and layup.

4. Bell looks like he’s confused if he’s supposed to be playing M2M or zone.

5. Our guards drive and jump with absolutely no idea if they are shooting or passing leading to a TO.

6. Every bad shot…lol

I do think Red deserves a long leash to fix this though. He’s been an assistant and recruited some current players sure but they were recruited to play zone. Still surprises me to see them struggle this much defensively though. It just looks like they have no idea how to play help defense in M2M.

Anyway, a lot of work to do for Red. Gotta be patient, if he’s bringing in forwards who can’t play defense or rebound in a few years, then we will have a real problem. I don’t think Red does that.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

UCLA up 28-4.

11 minutes in.

I think we can hang with Chaminade.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

SU just couldn't put the puck in the net today.

You don’t score on 100% of the shots you don’t take. Or in our case, 90% of the shots you do

 

[baggerbob]

SIX TOTAL TEAM ASSISTS.
To put this in perspective. Wayne Gretzky HIMSELF had 6 or more assists 4 times in a single game

You can't give a starting forward 127 minutes in 4 games and have him get 4 rebounds and 1 assist. Bell needs to be off the floor permanently. That is totally unacceptable for a forward. If someone like DC or Rony were on the team they wouldn't let him come on the floor.

 

[Scott11]

A few thoughts
-Loss is not on Red but he can't leave Bell out there to go 2-18 with 2 rebounds, 0 assists and poor defense in 35 minutes. Throw in an embarrassing technical foul. Plus Bell leads the team in fake dives to the floor. His next loose ball recovered will be his first.
-The lack of movement is glaring and needs to change. Embarrassing to have the same problem as yesterday not getting the ball in bounds.
-He's so talented but Judah is so immature. Other than the one pass to Naheem he did not get anyone any easy looks. He had five turnovers, most of the inexcusable variety. That almost missed breakaway when he was showboating. Taking poor risks on defense. He's our best player but he needs to grow up.
-JJ can only go to his right and otherwise can't score. This will be scouted and defended and he will need to pass more.
-Taylor needs to recognize when it is time to pump fake and go to the basket and when he is open to shoot. He had another airball on a tough contested shot but I'm surprised Red sat him for so long because he is our best inbound and has helped on the boards before today. He needs to see the ball go in tomorrow and it was too bad the refs missed when he got crushed going to the basket.
-Brown plays hard but his lack of explosive jumping ability limits his effectiveness as a rebounder. We really are going to struggle to rebound and need an all hands on deck approach including Startling, especially if Benny doesn't play, not that he is a good rebounder anyway.
-I think Naheem battled and will be useful. But he will only get boards that go right to him. But he needs to do more on the defensive boards.
-I want to like him but I'm not sure what Quadir brings. I'd rather see Cuffe out there.
-Shot selection still was not good enough and that is on Red. We are not a good shooting team as it is and taking bad shots will only make it worse. Also in both games there have been numerous defensive breakdowns which seemed rooted in poor communication.
-Despite all the above I'm more optimistic than most. I see athleticism and talent in areas i haven't the last couple of years. This young team will keep playing hard and will improve, as will the head coach.

 

[gmacfor3]

The most disturbing part of the last 2 days was the players presser last night. They are an overconfident and selfish bunch. Red needs to give them a dose of humility. Maybe just a week of sprints

I missed it…what was said? I agree that on the court, they definitely play selfishly and lack a winning mentality/toughness/togetherness. Each guy trying to do it themselves. On both ends of the floor. Mintz gambles and overplays so much on D and leaves his teammates out to dry. And the lack of urgency on rotations is alarming.

 

[kcsu]

Our primary issue is we don't shoot the ball worth a dam. Not from the three, Two, or at the rack.
that is the issue. We only have three kids that are ok at shooting. Bell Taylor and Cuffe. Nobody else on this team can shoot worth a dam. Not one of them. I actually thought that Benny Star and Judah would have been good enough to keep teams honest but so far, they are below average shooters. Nothing else is going to matter if we don't find the basket.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Effort and basketball IQ are seriously lacking overall. Two possessions in a row, we throw away a basic inbounds play leading to a layup and then Copeland tries to make some sort of no look pass and takes five steps to do so, turning it over…again.

Bells lack of effort is something that cannot be allowed to happen, especially with a first year coach. Think about the message it sends, you don’t HAVE to play D or rebound here at SU even as a FORWARD, just shoot. Sorry, that’s not gonna play unless we want more one dimensional shooters who can’t rebound or play D. I’m sure Bell has given up more points allowed not rebounding or letting every player he guards go bye him like he’s not there.

Bells not the only one with the lack of effort though, Benny’s done the same the last 2 years. Two forwards who can’t guard their man, is not a good thing.

Basketball IQ is often underrated IMO. This team makes inbounding the ball hard. How does a basic basketball play, you learned in your first year in youth basketball become a turnover waiting to happen?

If you decided to make the next SU game a drinking contest, take a shot every time you see one of the 6 things below happen. You’d have alcohol poisoning by the end of the first half.


1. Bell gets beat by his defender. You may not make it to the first TV timeout.

2. Inbounds play that results in a TO or near TO.

3. Two or 3 SU defenders go for the block they don’t get they fall over each other crashing to the floor leading to an easy offensive board and layup.

4. Bell looks like he’s confused if he’s supposed to be playing M2M or zone.

5. Our guards drive and jump with absolutely no idea if they are shooting or passing leading to a TO.

6. Every bad shot…lol

I do think Red deserves a long leash to fix this though. He’s been an assistant and recruited some current players sure but they were recruited to play zone. Still surprises me to see them struggle this much defensively though. It just looks like they have no idea how to play help defense in M2M.

Anyway, a lot of work to do for Red. Gotta be patient, if he’s bringing in forwards who can’t play defense or rebound in a few years, then we will have a real problem. I don’t think Red does that.

fan base will not give this a few years if certain things don’t get cleaned up and certain bad behaviors don’t get held accountable.

 

[sufan59]

We are Syracuse Basketball. Red gets a little leeway but I'm not cutting him much slack. Fair or not, that is the deal when you're named the head coach at a school where 35k come to watch you in the dead of upstate NY winter.

This is big boy college sports and there are programs where you are expected to perform and we are one of them. I thought Tennessee was a step forward but we just took 10 steps back. And that is after three poor performances to start the season. Put up or shut up when you make many millions of dollars to coach at a big time P5 school.

We have not been the same Syracuse basketball program since the sanctions. We have a lot of talent, but lack experience from our players and coaches compared to Gonzaga and Tennessee. These are teams that may improve a little or regress a little as the season goes on. I would say Syracuse is leaving Hawaii learning the most about itself than any other team in the field for better or worse. I was much more discouraged in the recent seasons when JB coached teams struggled in these early tournaments since there should be no learning curve for a program led by a HOF for the last 40 years.

 

[oTTo113445]

Most of those sophomores played plenty of meaningful minutes as freshman. Youth isn't an excuse.

Maybe not defensively, but Offensively it is imo. Literally, we had no pass inside the three-point line against TN that wasnt a kickout. Thats like not taking a chance with the ball.

I think at some point unless were dominating one on one though, were gonna see a lot more passing inside the arc. I can understand 2-11 but not 2-18 from Bell tonight. That could be another dozen points when it was a 6 point game with 9ish to go. JJ and Judah are the only ones consistent with the one on one play at a 80% rate, and Benny hasnt been given much chance.

Ugh zone giving up kickout threes though down 6. I would be ok never playing zone when were down.

 

[capeorange]

D3

And more disciplined

 

[domestu]

Copeland and Taylor are our best rebounders.


GO CUSE.

In 26 minutes Taylor did not grab a single rebound. And after scoring no points in back to back games, people need to stop visualizing that Taylor is our best shooter. I have seen no reason to believe that the answers we are searching for are going to be provided by anyone on this team. I came away from the Gonzaga game extremely disappointed by how many weaknesses this squad has and thought Autry's coaching was atrocious today. The ACC had an off year last season, but nothing I have seen makes me feel that our play is going to improve when we get into conference play. Right now, Judah Mintz is the only player who gives me any confidence that we can win a bunch of league games. Go Cuse!