Acc expansion thoughts

[Townie72]

Yes . When you who is coming to play . BBALL; SU < Duke , UNC , UCONN , Lville , ND . FBALL; FSU , ND , Clemson , Miami , Texas? , Lville . ETC. The ACC is bigtime , there are enough fans in Philly to support it.

Temple football was in the Big East when it had some powerhouse teams. Miami was certainly "big time". VT with Vick was "big time". SU with McNabb was "big time" No one came to the Temple games. They averaged about 5,000 fans. The Big East threw them out for low attendance.

Villanova played in the BE basketball league when it was the best in the country. Even then the support was concentrated among VU alums.

Temple has never had a fan base. Ever.

It's been tried before and its failed. ACC would be insane to even consider the prospect.

Temple is like the Frankenstein monster on a table connected up to the electrical source. But in this case applying the juice has never gotten the monster up off the table. There have been a few lip movements and and occasional eyelid fluttering. But there have never been any real signs of life.

 

[gbo]

Their division got weak all by itself , they just got lucky .

They certainly benefited but I don't know about lucky. Coach Cut is an excellent coach that pushed their admin to start taking football serious.

 

[Btstimpy]

I think it is fool's gold to chase Texas. We already have one part time Diva.

I think UConn makes tremendous sense to bring in with the ACC Network. They would cement New England to the ACC and along with Cuse/ND keep NYC an ACC Hoops town and a strong player for FB.

I know I hate having BC and Pitt as our two closest ACC teams.

Take UConn now...put Temple on notice.

I agree with you that UConn is ready now. Temple isn't ready now, but Temple is in a geographic location that could have tremendous value to the ACC if Temple does improve itself to be P5 caliber.

 

[Townie72]

I know you think it's fools gold but Texas is about the only school that makes sense. Football drives the money, it's just reality. UConn does nothing in that department.

TexanMark lives in Texas.

I used to live there.

Trust me, the ACC does not want Texas in the Conference.

The Texans would quickly be unhappy there and eventually the other schools would want them gone.

It's not because of the numbers or the university itself. Its a great school. It's not because of the athletic programs or traditions. They are also great.

It's the Texas attitudes that would be the killer.

You see, they believe that Texas, the State, is the best place in the world. And that UT is the best school in the world. And that Texans are the best people in the world. They aren't mean about it. It's just the way they think.

And they act on these beliefs. And the other States and schools and people are lesser beings.

When you are fundamentally better, richer, smarter, bigger, better-endowed, etc., It's pretty easy to feel and act entitled.

I like Texans. I like Texas, the state. I admire the Univ of Texas. I like Lone Star in long-neck bottles, Texas chili, BBQ brisket at Sonny Bryans, Willie Nelson and Bob Wills (Still the King) and the Dallas Cowboys.

But I don't want SU to be in a conference with UT.

 

[HtownOrange]

I like ...the Dallas Cowboys.

That is a Hangin' Offense, here in Houston.

 

[gbo]

TexanMark lives in Texas.

I used to live there.

Trust me, the ACC does not want Texas in the Conference.

The Texans would quickly be unhappy there and eventually the other schools would want them gone.

It's not because of the numbers or the university itself. Its a great school. It's not because of the athletic programs or traditions. They are also great.

It's the Texas attitudes that would be the killer.

You see, they believe that Texas, the State, is the best place in the world. And that UT is the best school in the world. And that Texans are the best people in the world. They aren't mean about it. It's just the way they think.

And they act on these beliefs. And the other States and schools and people are lesser beings.

When you are fundamentally better, richer, smarter, bigger, better-endowed, etc., It's pretty easy to feel and act entitled.

I like Texans. I like Texas, the state. I admire the Univ of Texas. I like Lone Star in long-neck bottles, Texas chili, BBQ brisket at Sonny Bryans, Willie Nelson and Bob Wills (Still the King) and the Dallas Cowboys.

But I don't want SU to be in a conference with UT.

You put it that way we already have a Texas in the conference. It's already insufferable sharing a conference with UNC.

 

[Townie72]

That is a Hangin' Offense, here in Houston.

Maybe.

But outside of Houston, I'm guessing the Cowboys are the State's favorite team.

I know the Cowboys are hugely popular throughout Mexico. Maybe starting with the Mexican place kicker they had (Herrera?)

No one ever accused the Oilers/Texans of being "America's Team" either.

Curiously here in DC I think the Pokes are number 2 behind the Redskins. Way behind of course. But there are a lot of Cowboy fans here. Some of whom harken back to the 1960's when the Redskins were an all-white team and Dallas had players like "Bullet Bob" Hayes.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree with you that UConn is ready now. Temple isn't ready now, but Temple is in a geographic location that could have tremendous value to the ACC if Temple does improve itself to be P5 caliber.

Neither of them add anything in football. Temple at least adds recruiting in EPA/SNJ in football and the Philly area in BBall. Oh and adding a major media market is better than having minimal reinforcement in Boston and NYC. Not to mention travel is easier for EVERY team vs going to Hartford. Too many of our fans are living in the past wanting UConn. They are worthless.

 

[TheCusian]

I still say it's ND and whoever they want (Navy or Texas).

 

[Janner]

TexanMark lives in Texas.

I used to live there...

I like Texans. I like Texas, the state. I admire the Univ of Texas. I like Lone Star in long-neck bottles, Texas chili, BBQ brisket at Sonny Bryans, Willie Nelson and Bob Wills (Still the King) and the Dallas Cowboys.

But I don't want SU to be in a conference with UT.

Out of curiosity, would you (and anyone who has spent some significant time in Texas, TexanMark, etc.) support UT if they were offered the ND deal? I have never been to Texas, so it always seemed like it would be a fun road trip from everything I heard. If they had limited influence and viewed themselves the way ND views themselves would that change the dynamic enough to make it palatable?

 

[Townie72]

You put it that way we already have a Texas in the conference. It's already insufferable sharing a conference with UNC.

That's sort of my point.

But it's a question of degree here.

UT gets a piece of every energy dollar that is extracted from the Texas soil. When a barrel of oil comes up from the ground or a cu. ft of gas, the cash register rings at UT. It's called a "well head" tax.

Just imagine SU getting a dollar for every share traded on Wall Street.

It's a fountain of money that no other school can match. UNC has a little of the same attitude. But it isn't even close.

 

[Btstimpy]

Neither of them add anything in football. Temple at least adds recruiting in EPA/SNJ in football and the Philly area in BBall. Oh and adding a major media market is better than having minimal reinforcement in Boston and NYC. Not to mention travel is easier for EVERY team vs going to Hartford. Too many of our fans are living in the past wanting UConn. They are worthless.

I think that the ACC should really want the Philadelphia media market. It's a big college basketball market if anything else. It has the Philadelphia Big 5 in it. The ACC would benefit by being a part of that. Philadelphia Big 5

I would want to see Temple go ahead and build their new football stadium that they are planning and generate more football following. Philadelphia is a big sports town primarily with Professional Sports, but there is as much room for college sports there as in New York and Washington. I see potential in Temple if it isn't already realized.

And yes the Philadelphia Airport would make travel there easier. With the Texas discussion I think the same about TCU or Houston/Rice vs the other Texas options. Again hub airports.

 

[Townie72]

Out of curiosity, would you (and anyone who has spent some significant time in Texas, TexanMark, etc.) support UT if they were offered the ND deal? I have never been to Texas, so it always seemed like it would be a fun road trip from everything I heard. If they had limited influence and viewed themselves the way ND views themselves would that change the dynamic enough to make it palatable?

That's interesting.

UT without football isn't really UT. You probably do understand the out-sized of importance of football in Texas.

I don't think they would ever entertain the idea. But it might be a good thing for the ACC. Texas basketball is generally good. Baseball is generally terrific.

I don't see Texas doing it. They like playing in and around Texas. They really liked the old Southwest Conference with Arkansas.

Most people like Austin as a place to visit. But Texas is sooo huge that just seeing that isn't really "seeing Texas".

If you had a jigsaw puzzle whose pieces were the individual states:

If you turned the Texas piece over to the East, it would reach the Atlantic Ocean.
If you turned the piece over to the West, it would touch the Pacific Ocean.
If you turned the piece North, you would touch the Canadian border.

 

[Townie72]

I think that the ACC should really want the Philadelphia media market. It's a big college basketball market if anything else. It has the Philadelphia Big 5 in it. The ACC would benefit by being a part of that. Philadelphia Big 5

I would want to see Temple go ahead and build their new football stadium that they are planning and generate more football following. Philadelphia is a big sports town primarily with Professional Sports, but there is as much room for college sports there as in New York and Washington. I see potential in Temple if it isn't already realized.

And yes the Philadelphia Airport would make travel there easier. With the Texas discussion I think the same about TCU or Houston/Rice vs the other Texas options. Again hub airports.

"there is as much room for college sports there as in New York and Washington"

Precisely. And that room is almost zero.

Georgetown in basketball draws about 6,000 a game for games not with SU or Villanova.

Maryland with hundreds of thousands of local alumni can't fill their stadium beyond 50%

Guess what they are talking about on the Sports Radio today? If you guessed "Redskins" you would be right. I can't get the Philly radio station, but I'll bet they are talking about "The Iggles".

 

[CousCuse]

They certainly benefited but I don't know about lucky. Coach Cut is an excellent coach that pushed their admin to start taking football serious.

Oh , I think Cutcliffe is great , I mean they got lucky that the power teams like VTECH and Miami hit the rocks and UNC was off as well . Virginia took a swoon too .

 

[gbo]

Oh , I think Cutcliffe is great , I mean they got lucky that the power teams like VTECH and Miami hit the rocks and UNC was off as well . Virginia took a swoon too .

Ahh I see what you're saying. Good point.

 

[Scooch]

This is a fun message board thread to kill time, but it's irrelevant of course. The ACC adds Miamis, Virginia Techs, BCs, Syracuses, Pitts, Louisvilles and Notre Dames. It does not add Temples.

 

[Townie72]

Out of curiosity, would you (and anyone who has spent some significant time in Texas, TexanMark, etc.) support UT if they were offered the ND deal? I have never been to Texas, so it always seemed like it would be a fun road trip from everything I heard. If they had limited influence and viewed themselves the way ND views themselves would that change the dynamic enough to make it palatable?

I've been thinking about this and this is my second attempt at a response.

There's a huge difference between Notre Dame and the Longhorns.

Notre Dame is a NATIONAL program. It's alumni are spread around the country as is its fan base (alumni and non-alumni Catholics). People all across the country either want to see the Irish win or see them lose. So, Notre Dame is highly-incented to play a National, high-visibility schedule. That's why they have kept football independent.

So when ND basketball goes to Syracuse, Miami or Philadelphia or Football to Las Angeles, the stands are filled with supporters and haters. Heck, they have a special TV deal because so many people are interested in watching them win or lose on Saturday.

Texas, even Texas football, is a STATE program. Almost everyone who cares about UT football lives somewhere between Texarkana and El Paso.

They don't care who they play outside of Oklahoma or T A&M. They just want to play and win. They would be indifferent between playing Washington and North Carolina.

Notre Dame needed a home for it's non-football sports. Texas doesn't.

 

[Townie72]

Temple crushed PSU in Happy Valley and had Notre Dame dead to rights last year . They also beat Cincy and Memphis .

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally.

Northwestern went to the Rose Bowl a few years ago. Wisely they didn't run out and build a stadium for 100K fans.

 

[gbo]

That's sort of my point.

But it's a question of degree here.

UT gets a piece of every energy dollar that is extracted from the Texas soil. When a barrel of oil comes up from the ground or a cu. ft of gas, the cash register rings at UT. It's called a "well head" tax.

Just imagine SU getting a dollar for every share traded on Wall Street.

It's a fountain of money that no other school can match. UNC has a little of the same attitude. But it isn't even close.

As far as money flow sure it's not even close, but influence within conference I feel is comparable. What other conference has a former player and athletic director as the commissioner.

 

[Btstimpy]

"there is as much room for college sports there as in New York and Washington"

Precisely. And that room is almost zero.

Georgetown in basketball draws about 6,000 a game for games not with SU or Villanova.

Maryland with hundreds of thousands of local alumni can't fill their stadium beyond 50%

Guess what they are talking about on the Sports Radio today? If you guessed "Redskins" you would be right. I can't get the Philly radio station, but I'll bet they are talking about "The Iggles".

That would make Connecticut a better choice than someone in a major professional sports city. The 3.5 million people in the state don't have a local sports team, and UConn would develop into their sports franchise like Louisville does in Louisville. They would need to step up football, but they have done it before with Randy Edsall.

 

[HtownOrange]

That's interesting.

UT without football isn't really UT. You probably do understand the out-sized of importance of football in Texas.

I don't think they would ever entertain the idea. But it might be a good thing for the ACC. Texas basketball is generally good. Baseball is generally terrific.

I don't see Texas doing it. They like playing in and around Texas. They really liked the old Southwest Conference with Arkansas.

Most people like Austin as a place to visit. But Texas is sooo huge that just seeing that isn't really "seeing Texas".

If you had a jigsaw puzzle whose pieces were the individual states:

If you turned the Texas piece over to the East, it would reach the Atlantic Ocean.
If you turned the piece over to the West, it would touch the Pacific Ocean.
If you turned the piece North, you would touch the Canadian border.

You can add that UT likes being in a conference. They have been in conferences for decades. and UT likes being a power more so in the conference than on the field and everyone knows they like being a power on the field.
When all is said and done, if UT can reasonably keep the Big 12 together, they will.

 

[Townie72]

This is a fun message board thread to kill time, but it's irrelevant of course. The ACC adds Miamis, Virginia Techs, BCs, Syracuses, Pitts, Louisvilles and Notre Dames. It does not add Temples.

Last Fall, I drove from Philadelphia City Hall up North Broad Street through what could be loosely called the Temple University campus area.

It was, shall we say, eye-opening. I'd be willing to bet that a whole bunch of visitors to the campus instinctively lock their car doors as they approach 22nd and Lehigh.

If you go to Temple, you can skip the Urban Studies class. You could teach it.

 

[Townie72]

As far as money flow sure it's not even close, but influence within conference I feel is comparable. What other conference has a former player and athletic director as the commissioner.

You might be right.

But part of "power' in the conference is associated with your value to the conference and your alternatives on leaving the conference.

SU had huuuuge influence in the Big East. We were one of the leading powers and appeared to have options.

People know, I think, that UNC is attractive to other Conferences and will bend a little backwards to keep them happy. That's how UL got in the ACC. To keep FSU and Clemson happy.

I'm sure some ACC Presidents had wastebaskets between their knees on the Conference call in which the UL invitation was finalized. After years of denying WVU a spot because of weak academics, they go ahead and invite Louisville.

 

[gbo]

You might be right.

But part of "power' in the conference is associated with your value to the conference and your alternatives on leaving the conference.

SU had huuuuge influence in the Big East. We were one of the leading powers and appeared to have options.

People know, I think, that UNC is attractive to other Conferences and will bend a little backwards to keep them happy. That's how UL got in the ACC. To keep FSU and Clemson happy.

I'm sure some ACC Presidents had wastebaskets between their knees on the Conference call in which the UL invitation was finalized. After years of denying WVU a spot because of weak academics, they go ahead and invite Louisville.

Exactly. To sit there and deny WVU but bring in Louisville is just crazy. WVU is a natural partner location wise with the ACC. If Texas is unrealistic then WVU should be the team to add if the ACC moves to 16.