Acc expansion thoughts

[longtimefan]

In addition , relagation by its nature sets up the best match ups creating better content for the network .

In addition to many reasons already mentioned, relegation would not work because of unbalanced schedules.

 

[Townie72]

In addition , relagation by its nature sets up the best match ups creating better content for the network .

Your posts remind me of the old business saying, "Throwing crap against a wall and seeing how much of it sticks."

How would it set up better match-ups given the huge year to year roster changes in college football? And the short-attention span Millenials don't need yet another thing to entertain them.

Relegation works for professional soccer teams in England. And part of the reason it works is the absolutely fierce loyalty the English have for their local team.

Relegation wouldn't come close to working in college football in the US. There are fundamental differences between English professional soccer and US college football.

It's a cute idea. But it's unworkable and under the surface, it's fundamentally silly.

 

[CousCuse]

Your posts remind me of the old business saying, "Throwing crap against a wall and seeing how much of it sticks."

How would it set up better match-ups given the huge year to year roster changes in college football? And the short-attention span Millenials don't need yet another thing to entertain them.

Relegation works for professional soccer teams in England. And part of the reason it works is the absolutely fierce loyalty the English have for their local team.

Relegation wouldn't come close to working in college football in the US. There are fundamental differences between English professional soccer and US college football.

It's a cute idea. But it's unworkable and under the surface, it's fundamentally silly.

This is a internet posting board , it is the definition of a place where people throw crap against a wall to see if it sticks . As to the possible efficacy of applying relagation in college football , I believe it would work fine . In fact , there already is relagation in determining the final 4/bowl games . The P5 is very unbalanced league to league . I'm not so much argue for its implementation as saying it's a possible option that should be explored in view of the fact that everything has changed and continues to change in college athletics . BTW , Fans are fiercely loyal to their college teams and millenials are the people that will carry the torch when the old folks go on to bigger and better things .

 

[orange79]

This is a internet posting board , it is the definition of a place where people throw crap against a wall to see if it sticks . As to the possible efficacy of applying relagation in college football , I believe it would work fine . In fact , there already is relagation in determining the final 4/bowl games . The P5 is very unbalanced league to league . I'm not so much argue for its implementation as saying it's a possible option that should be explored in view of the fact that everything has changed and continues to change in college athletics . BTW , Fans are fiercely loyal to their college teams and millenials are the people that will carry the torch when the old folks go on to bigger and better things .

So, you're talking about moving teams in and out of P-5 leagues? Leaving aside how absurd that sounds to me, let's take a look at some of the roadblocks.

1. Do you really think any team/league/college president would agree to this? Would FSU/Alabama/etc. agree to this, knowing they are one bad season away from being moved to the Patriot league?

2. How do you get around current GOR's in the P-5 conferences? If your answer is 'the leagues agree to restructure them', see roadblock #1.

3.College football schedules are set years in advance (leaving out SU as the outlier ). Are you going to tell Florida that instead of playing Georgia they are going to play UConn? If your answer is 'yes', see roadblock #1.

These are just a few that came to mind instantly. It seems to me it always comes down to #1. There is literally no reason for the NCAA to do this.

 

[CousCuse]

So, you're talking about moving teams in and out of P-5 leagues? Leaving aside how absurd that sounds to me, let's take a look at some of the roadblocks.

1. Do you really think any team/league/college president would agree to this? Would FSU/Alabama/etc. agree to this, knowing they are one bad season away from being moved to the Patriot league?

2. How do you get around current GOR's in the P-5 conferences? If your answer is 'the leagues agree to restructure them', see roadblock #1.

3.College football schedules are set years in advance (leaving out SU as the outlier ). Are you going to tell Florida that instead of playing Georgia they are going to play UConn? If your answer is 'yes', see roadblock #1.

These are just a few that came to mind instantly. It seems to me it always comes down to #1. There is literally no reason for the NCAA to do this.

3 six team divisions in the ACC with one of them being the lowest rated 6 teams , the other 2 being evenly balanced or some similar configuration . Not teams moving out of conferences or from P5 to G5 to FCS .

 

[SU2NASA]

We will have to disagree on the facts of the case.

Most cars I see here that have college stickers on them have Maryland stickers.

With this conversation fresh in my mind. I was just in the Village of Potomac. I saw five people with at least one piece of Maryland gear on. I saw no other college represented.

Try and get a ticket to a Maryland basketball game (in Conference).

If Maryland football were to get good again, you'd see how big the fan base is.

I guess their gardeners are proud of their Maryland degrees.

 

[Btstimpy]

Adding UCONN and Temple would put a lock on the Northeast and create a solid entity from New England to Florida . The Philly media market , which Temple is in , controls most of Pa. , Nj . , Md. and Delaware. I think it would make the B1G cringe .

Now that the ACC is officially going to have a cable channel, additions to the membership would need to bring television subscribers as well as not diminish the quality of the ACC's football and basketball brands. If you look at the map of the ACC's geographic footprint along the east coast, Connecticut and Eastern Pennsylvania are holes in it.

I think Connecticut would be a no brainer if the ACC wants to continue to market itself to New England. Boston College is already here. The combined populations of Massachusetts and Connecticut are around 10 million. A rivalry between BC and UConn would help the ACC in that region, and I don't think UConn diminishes the ACC football product with FSU and Clemson carrying the banner these days and others up and coming. UConn would help the basketball product in both men's and women's. And with 24 varsity sports programs, UConn would add value to Cable Channel. I also don't want to see the Big XII or the Big Ten enter New England.

Temple is another story. I would want to know that they could do for the ACC what Rutgers is doing for the Big Ten. Neither bring football cache. The Big Ten is using Rutgers to enter the New York City market for its channel and the ability to call it home footprint. If the ACC added Temple could we do the same for Philadelphia and the overall Delaware Valley? Would it put the 3 million television households there on the ACC Network? Temple football is improving and they are looking at a new stadium on campus. Will they follow through and will the trend continue. Temple basketball would be fine in the ACC. Pennsylvania is an important state to the ACC, and Philadelphia could become an important city. We have Pittsburgh and with them market access to western Pennsylvania. We could benefit by market access to the other half of Pennsylvania. Can Temple help that? ESPN would have to help us answer this since we are now in close partnership with this Network with ESPN. I'm not against Temple as others are here, but I have more questions.

 

[Townie72]

I guess their gardeners are proud of their Maryland degrees.

The gardeners in Potomac do not work on Sundays.

With your powers of non-observation, you may have missed this.

 

[Townie72]

3 six team divisions in the ACC with one of them being the lowest rated 6 teams , the other 2 being evenly balanced or some similar configuration . Not teams moving out of conferences or from P5 to G5 to FCS .

Aha! I see.

The problem is that you don't understand what "relegation" means or how it works in the only athletic arena in which it is used.

All you seem to be suggesting is a change in scheduling practice that effectively makes the ACC two or three seperate conferences.

What you are recommending --- dividing the ACC into three separate sub-conferences and then scheduling within them --- isn't what happens in England and lacks the fundamental basis on which it will work.

Relegation involves the promoting and demoting of teams between the Premiere League and the Championship League. Leaving the Premiere League is like falling off a cliff.

The differences in revenue and attention gained between the two leagues is stark. Premiere League TV revenues are distributed evenly among the 20 teams. A team relegated from the Premiere League to the Championship League does not get a share of the Premiere League TV money. The Championship league is similar to AAA baseball in the US, except there are no formal ties between major and minor league teams.

 

[CousCuse]

Aha! I see.

The problem is that you don't understand what "relegation" means or how it works in the only athletic arena in which it is used.

All you seem to be suggesting is a change in scheduling practice that effectively makes the ACC two or three seperate conferences.

What you are recommending --- dividing the ACC into three separate sub-conferences and then scheduling within them --- isn't what happens in England and lacks the fundamental basis on which it will work.

Relegation involves the promoting and demoting of teams between the Premiere League and the Championship League. Leaving the Premiere League is like falling off a cliff.

The differences in revenue and attention gained between the two leagues is stark. Premiere League TV revenues are distributed evenly among the 20 teams. A team relegated from the Premiere League to the Championship League does not get a share of the Premiere League TV money. The Championship league is similar to AAA baseball in the US, except there are no formal ties between major and minor league teams.

Yes , I did not have a complete understanding of Euro soccer relagation . The general concept still applies , that weaker teams get to play weaker teams to try to get their feet under them while still being part of the league/conference . That is what many schools do thru scheduling and has been advocated by many here for SU to do . The 3 division league creates an established process where that would happen automatically.

 

[CousCuse]

Now that the ACC is officially going to have a cable channel, additions to the membership would need to bring television subscribers as well as not diminish the quality of the ACC's football and basketball brands. If you look at the map of the ACC's geographic footprint along the east coast, Connecticut and Eastern Pennsylvania are holes in it.

I think Connecticut would be a no brainer if the ACC wants to continue to market itself to New England. Boston College is already here. The combined populations of Massachusetts and Connecticut are around 10 million. A rivalry between BC and UConn would help the ACC in that region, and I don't think UConn diminishes the ACC football product with FSU and Clemson carrying the banner these days and others up and coming. UConn would help the basketball product in both men's and women's. And with 24 varsity sports programs, UConn would add value to Cable Channel. I also don't want to see the Big XII or the Big Ten enter New England.

Temple is another story. I would want to know that they could do for the ACC what Rutgers is doing for the Big Ten. Neither bring football cache. The Big Ten is using Rutgers to enter the New York City market for its channel and the ability to call it home footprint. If the ACC added Temple could we do the same for Philadelphia and the overall Delaware Valley? Would it put the 3 million television households there on the ACC Network? Temple football is improving and they are looking at a new stadium on campus. Will they follow through and will the trend continue. Temple basketball would be fine in the ACC. Pennsylvania is an important state to the ACC, and Philadelphia could become an important city. We have Pittsburgh and with them market access to western Pennsylvania. We could benefit by market access to the other half of Pennsylvania. Can Temple help that? ESPN would have to help us answer this since we are now in close partnership with this Network with ESPN. I'm not against Temple as others are here, but I have more questions.

Temple is in a geographic sweet spot , if they were to be successful it could really make Penn State , Rutgers and Maryland concerned , If the ACC brand and teams are looked at as more dynamic and cutting edge , then that is where the tops athletes will want to play . I don't see any other programs in that region that could join the league and being an SU fan , I wish there were more old Northeast teams that have history with SU to play . I mean Pop Warner did coach at Temple , that is something .

 

[Townie72]

Yes , I did not have a complete understanding of Euro soccer relagation . The general concept still applies , that weaker teams get to play weaker teams to try to get their feet under them while still being part of the league/conference . That is what many schools do thru scheduling and has been advocated by many here for SU to do . The 3 division league creates an established process where that would happen automatically.

Actually the reverse happens.

Weaker teams playing weaker teams in a weaker league wouldn't allow them to regroup. They'd be on TV less or in front of smaller audiences because of weakened spectator interest. (Think of the viewership of weaker college conferences like the MAC).

The result is likely to be a downward spiral.

The best way to get better is to play stronger competition and a better schedule.

And the trend is away from patsy OOC games you are pointing to and towards more meaningful Conference games.

 

[CousCuse]

Actually the reverse happens.

Weaker teams playing weaker teams in a weaker league wouldn't allow them to regroup. They'd be on TV less or in front of smaller audiences because of weakened spectator interest. (Think of the viewership of weaker college conferences like the MAC).

The result is likely to be a downward spiral.

The best way to get better is to play stronger competition and a better schedule.

And the trend is away from patsy OOC games you are pointing to and towards more meaningful Conference games.

The winner of the "weak" division gets an automatic move up into the top 2 divisions , good for 5three seasons . Maybe 1 or 2 other teams could as well , but that would be based on other factors and polls .

 

[Townie72]

The winner of the "weak" division gets an automatic move up into the top 2 divisions , good for 5three seasons . Maybe 1 or 2 other teams could as well , but that would be based on other factors and polls .

The winner of the "weak" division wins the division because it had a senior-laden team.

So the following year, with these key players graduated, it gets to play a steady diet of Florida State and Clemson level teams?

Do you understand how wacky this is?

 

[Scooch]

Temple is in a geographic sweet spot , if they were to be successful it could really make Penn State , Rutgers and Maryland concerned , If the ACC brand and teams are looked at as more dynamic and cutting edge , then that is where the tops athletes will want to play . I don't see any other programs in that region that could join the league and being an SU fan , I wish there were more old Northeast teams that have history with SU to play . I mean Pop Warner did coach at Temple , that is something .

They won't be. Not long term. And there is zero reason to make a long-term bet on them in the current landscape. If by some miracle Temple can achieve a decade of sustained success then by all mean, think about them as a candidate. Until then there's no upside.

 

[CousCuse]

They won't be. Not long term. And there is zero reason to make a long-term bet on them in the current landscape. If by some miracle Temple can achieve a decade of sustained success then by all mean, think about them as a candidate. Until then there's no upside.

If the Temple athletic department and the Philadelphia media as well as the ACC ran a big campaign saying that Temple and Philadelphia are now ACC country along with a massive infusion of conference money into their athletic department , I think that would alter their trajectory .

 

[CousCuse]

The winner of the "weak" division wins the division because it had a senior-laden team.

So the following year, with these key players graduated, it gets to play a steady diet of Florida State and Clemson level teams?

Do you understand how wacky this is?

Untrue , SU this year with Babers and a lot of underclassmen could win such a division . This division for 2016 would consist of ; SU , GTECH , Virginia , BC , Wake and UCONN.

 

[TexanMark]

I think it is fool's gold to chase Texas. We already have one part time Diva.

I think UConn makes tremendous sense to bring in with the ACC Network. They would cement New England to the ACC and along with Cuse/ND keep NYC an ACC Hoops town and a strong player for FB.

I know I hate having BC and Pitt as our two closest ACC teams.

Take UConn now...put Temple on notice.

 

[Townie72]

Untrue , SU this year with Babers and a lot of underclassmen could win such a division . This division for 2016 would consist of ; SU , GTECH , Virginia , BC , Wake and UCONN.

The operative word in this is "could" win.

Generally speaking Senior-laden teams do better than teams loaded with underclassmen.

And then the seniors graduate and the team goes back to being a pinata for Ohio State and Michigan or whoever the big teams in the conference are.

Duke, in the ACC, became competitive without having to spend a few years in an artificially created weak division.

 

[Townie72]

If the Temple athletic department and the Philadelphia media as well as the ACC ran a big campaign saying that Temple and Philadelphia are now ACC country along with a massive infusion of conference money into their athletic department , I think that would alter their trajectory .

CousCuse, you have an unjustified faith in the power of advertising and PR.

What Temple lacks is fans. And by "lacks" I mean they don't have any.

Philadelphia is a strange market.

The Eagles and pro sports dominate.

To the extent there is a college market, it's dominated by Penn State. And the rest of it is spread between allegiances to the Big 5 schools. Villanova, St Joes and LaSalle fans aren't going to root for Temple.

I haven't checked but I suspect there are more Penn fans in Philly than Temple fans.

You think ads on radio and in the newspapers are going to change that?

 

[Trueblue25]

Temple or Cincinnati would be nice.

 

[Townie72]

I think it is fool's gold to chase Texas. We already have one part time Diva.

I think UConn makes tremendous sense to bring in with the ACC Network. They would cement New England to the ACC and along with Cuse/ND keep NYC an ACC Hoops town and a strong player for FB.

I know I hate having BC and Pitt as our two closest ACC teams.

Take UConn now...put Temple on notice.

Maybe no one wants a conference partner that has shown it will file suit against the other conference members and their staffs. Others were parties to those suits, but UConn and CT politicians led the charge.

The university administrators I knew at that time were shocked beyond belief that one university would file suit against another. Especially one that was so flimsy.

As Roy Hobbs said at the end of "The Natural", "Some sins you never stop paying for."

 

[CousCuse]

The operative word in this is "could" win.

Generally speaking Senior-laden teams do better than teams loaded with underclassmen.

And then the seniors graduate and the team goes back to being a pinata for Ohio State and Michigan or whoever the big teams in the conference are.

Duke, in the ACC, became competitive without having to spend a few years in an artificially created weak division.

Their division got weak all by itself , they just got lucky .

 

[CousCuse]

CousCuse, you have an unjustified faith in the power of advertising and PR.

What Temple lacks is fans. And by "lacks" I mean they don't have any.

Philadelphia is a strange market.

The Eagles and pro sports dominate.

To the extent there is a college market, it's dominated by Penn State. And the rest of it is spread between allegiances to the Big 5 schools. Villanova, St Joes and LaSalle fans aren't going to root for Temple.

I haven't checked but I suspect there are more Penn fans in Philly than Temple fans.

You think ads on radio and in the newspapers are going to change that?

Yes . When you who is coming to play . BBALL; SU < Duke , UNC , UCONN , Lville , ND . FBALL; FSU , ND , Clemson , Miami , Texas? , Lville . ETC. The ACC is bigtime , there are enough fans in Philly to support it.

 

[gbo]

I think it is fool's gold to chase Texas. We already have one part time Diva.

I think UConn makes tremendous sense to bring in with the ACC Network. They would cement New England to the ACC and along with Cuse/ND keep NYC an ACC Hoops town and a strong player for FB.

I know I hate having BC and Pitt as our two closest ACC teams.

Take UConn now...put Temple on notice.

I know you think it's fools gold but Texas is about the only school that makes sense. Football drives the money, it's just reality. UConn does nothing in that department.