Dungey as the #2

[TheCusian]

Isn't it accurate to say that Dungey is a pocket passer and Hunt is a mobile, dual threat?

Nope. I think Dungey can run as well as Hunt. But if he's more accurate and quicker with his reads - I'd bet the staff will want him to run less. Shoot - they want Hunt to run less.

Go back and watch his senior highlights. Dungey is a really good athlete. He competed in the high jump and long jump for the first time and made the state finals.

(Feel like I'm describing Paul Bunyon a little.)

 

[CIL]

If that is the plan then they should have never made Hunt captain.

Tough spot. Especially if the players voted THunt captain.

 

[RF2044]

I don't expect him to be ready his first year. I think we are going to stink. So rip off the bandaid.

I said it before but if you don't want to play dungey because you think hunt can be better in the new offense, ok

i'll give up 2019 dungey to get 2016 dungey prepared even if 2015 dungey is bad

You're making a huge assumption that the team isn't going to be good enough to get to a bowl this year, and that Hunt won't perform better in the new offense. If both of those conditions prove true, then I'm with you.

But I'm not willing to make that assumption five days before the first game. Maybe we should see what Hunt can do in the new offense before completely writing him off and going back into rebuild mode for next year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

If the staff is that high on Dungey then they should plan to use him every week.

RI play him one series in the first half. Once we get up by 19 play him the rest of the game.
Wake one series 1st half. If we get up 19 in the 2nd half play him the rest of the game.
CMU see Wake.
LSU one series first half. If we get down by 19 in the 2nd half play him the rest of the game.
USF, UVA, Pitt see Wake.
FSU, UL, Clemson see LSU.
NC St & BC see Wake.

If we get to 7 losses he should play the entire 2nd half of games.

If Dungey isn't any good then stop playing him earlier in the season. In which case who cares about the redshirt. If he is good then he is prepared to take over next year.

19?

 

[kcsu]

As the number 2 with the number 1 leaving there is no question that Dungey should and will play in game situations that are not just mop up duty. In addition i think you are going to see a ton of the frosh on the field as this class is strong and will make us better. On D you are going to see 4 DL play and i expect we will see 2 or more of the Db's/S play as well as the LB's. Our depth is as thin as rice paper and we need these kids to play and get experiance. I bet that Dungey sees action in over half the games

 

[RF2044]

Just to give everyone an idea of what other schools do at the QB position.

Tennessee signed 2015 ESPN Top 300 QBs Sheriron Jones, who had offers from FL, AZ, AZ St., and Jauan Jennings (Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, Penn State, + everyone) and another QB Quinten Dormady who had offers from TCU, Oklahoma State & Houston.

They already moved Jennings to WR (sound familiar? [Womack]), and Dormady is the primary backup. Will be interesting to see if either one of them play - my guess is they won't redshirt both.

Here's an article - doesn't sound like Tennessee coaches are worried about 5 years down the line:
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...dormady-ready-whenever-vols-backquart/321331/

But in the future, the received a commitment from 2016 QB Jarrett Guarantano, who incidentally was the top guy on our board for next year. And just received a verbal from the top 2017 QB in the country, Hunter Johnson.

Silly to redshirt to save a kid for 5 years down the line. A lot can happen between now and then.

Pasqualoni was in the same situation and gambled that in 1995 the team around a freshman QB would be good enough to win some games early in the year - it paid off. It may not pay off that well if the same thing happened this time.

A lot of people are forgetting that McNabb wasn't that great at the beginning of 1995 - he made mistakes and the defense carried the team (held UNC to 9 pts., had key INT that set up go-ahead score) and a sound running game with Malcolm Thomas, Rob Konrad & Tebucky Jones. Also lost at home to what ended up being a pretty good East Carolina team. Fumbled late on a center exchange, threw a pick at end of 1st half that changed complexion. He showed signs of being all world, don't think that I forget that, but he also had some growing pains early and had a much more veteran group that had won in prior years to help make the transition more smooth.

Also, McNabb made the choice to come back for his 5th year. He could have easily left for the NFL a year earlier. Would he have been a top 5 pick? Who knows. But the conversation was certainly out there. As I said and many others have said, 4 years is a long, long time.

The context your post lacks is that Tennessee [who have admittedly been down the last few seasons] is an elite selector school. They're not worried about 5 years down the road because they land a ton of 4 and 5 star prospects every year. So if they lose somebody, miss out on somebody who busts, or lose a player to the NFL early--no big deal, they just recruit over them the next season.

Ohio State, Alabama, et al don't redshirt players becuase they want to extract maximum value from their highly rated recruits now, and don't need to worry about the future because they get 4 and 5 star replacements every single year. We aren't Ohio State or Alabama.

 

[orangepassion]

Hope it doesn't scary away Wilson and Long. Would hate to have an incoming Freshman coming off an injury as our only possible #2 next year. Hope we can keep Long around and give him a shot to compete when healthy.

 

[Cootface]

Hope it doesn't scary away Wilson and Long. Would hate to have an incoming Freshman coming off an injury as our only possible #2 next year. Hope we can keep Long around and give him a shot to compete when healthy.

Where's Long going with that tattoo on his arm? It'd be awful weird to see a guy suiting up for Tennessee with a giant block "Syracuse" coming out of his sleeve.

 

[PhatOrange]

Hope it doesn't scary away Wilson and Long. Would hate to have an incoming Freshman coming off an injury as our only possible #2 next year. Hope we can keep Long around and give him a shot to compete when healthy.

We're going to bring in 2 QB's i have no doubt anymore. Not with Kenterious moving and Culpepper blowing out his acl. I think Long stays as he was always expected to redshirt this season. Wilson is probably gonzo if he wants to see the field.

I really think we land that Moore kid from Georgia. He'll be our 2nd QB.

 

[Scooch]

This is the point where I snarkily mock everyone who has said "now we're deeper at quarterback than we've been in yearrrrrrrrsss!!!!!" in the past 24 months.

People fall in love with QBs they've never see take a snap. Now Dungey is such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB that it is imperative that we preserve his redshirt and ability to be a 4-year starter.

Which is weird, because I was told that AJ Long/Austin Wilson/Mitch Kimble/Charley Loeb/John Kinder/David Legree/Andrew Robinson/Perry Patterson/Joe Fields was that guy.

 

[CUSU]

This is the point where I snarkily mock everyone who has said "now we're deeper at quarterback than we've been in yearrrrrrrrsss!!!!!" in the past 24 months.

People fall in love with QBs they've never see take a snap. Now Dungey is such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB that it is imperative that we preserve his redshirt and ability to be a 4-year starter.

Which is weird, because I was told that AJ Long/Austin Wilson/Mitch Kimble/Charley Loeb/John Kinder/David Legree/Andrew Robinson/Perry Patterson/Joe Fields was that guy.

Feel better?

 

[RF2044]

This is the point where I snarkily mock everyone who has said "now we're deeper at quarterback than we've been in yearrrrrrrrsss!!!!!" in the past 24 months.

People fall in love with QBs they've never see take a snap. Now Dungey is such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB that it is imperative that we preserve his redshirt and ability to be a 4-year starter.

Which is weird, because I was told that AJ Long/Austin Wilson/Mitch Kimble/Charley Loeb/John Kinder/David Legree/Andrew Robinson/Perry Patterson/Joe Fields was that guy.

As opposed to him being such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB who is ready to play as a true frosh?

Which is weird, becuase AJ Long / Austin Wilson / Mitch Kimble / Chaley Loeb / John Kinder / David Legree / Andrew Robinson / Perry Patterson / Joe Fields / Cecil Howard certainly weren't.

 

[SUFan44]

The context your post lacks is that Tennessee [who have admittedly been down the last few seasons] is an elite selector school. They're not worried about 5 years down the road because they land a ton of 4 and 5 star prospects every year. So if they lose somebody, miss out on somebody who busts, or lose a player to the NFL early--no big deal, they just recruit over them the next season.

Ohio State, Alabama, et al don't redshirt players becuase they want to extract maximum value from their highly rated recruits now, and don't need to worry about the future because they get 4 and 5 star replacements every single year. We aren't Ohio State or Alabama.

The concept remains the same, just change the level of replacements to 3 and 4 star. Hunt was a 2 star. Dungey a high 3. The concept is you continue to recruit high(er) level replacements and let the chips fall. Maximizing for a 5th year happens only when you have the luxury of being good and having good options.

We haven't been good in forever. Why are we going to sacrifice the first part of next year to reap the benefits of 2019, when there's no guarantee (a) Shafer is around that long, (b) we don't recruit someone better than Dungey [arguably we have in Culpepper on paper] or (c) Dungey is even around in year 5, if he's any good? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, you glossed over the McNabb piece of my post. He wasn't McNabb 5th year senior level in his first 5 games of his redshirt freshman season. He struggled comparable to the rest of his career - which is what the non-redshirt supporters are saying they want Dungey to get out of the way this year, if possible.

Shafer & Syracuse's program can't afford to sit on someone with the sole purpose of giving an extra year at the back end, if Dungey is any good.

 

[SUFan44]

As opposed to him being such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB who is ready to play as a true frosh?

Which is weird, becuase AJ Long / Austin Wilson / Mitch Kimble / Chaley Loeb / John Kinder / David Legree / Andrew Robinson / Perry Patterson / Joe Fields / Cecil Howard certainly weren't.

I don't think anyone is saying he's ready to play at any type of all-ACC level as a true freshman. That's ridiculous to assume.

I will take the liberty of speaking for the group when I say that we are saying it is beneficial to the program and coaching staff to have him play this year, IF he is going to be the clear-cut #1 next year (which I think anyone who can read the tea leaves knows is the case).

For any number of reasons mentioned above.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This is the point where I snarkily mock everyone who has said "now we're deeper at quarterback than we've been in yearrrrrrrrsss!!!!!" in the past 24 months.

People fall in love with QBs they've never see take a snap. Now Dungey is such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB that it is imperative that we preserve his redshirt and ability to be a 4-year starter.

Which is weird, because I was told that AJ Long/Austin Wilson/Mitch Kimble/Charley Loeb/John Kinder/David Legree/Andrew Robinson/Perry Patterson/Joe Fields was that guy.

As opposed to him being such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB who is ready to play as a true frosh?

Which is weird, becuase AJ Long / Austin Wilson / Mitch Kimble / Chaley Loeb / John Kinder / David Legree / Andrew Robinson / Perry Patterson / Joe Fields / Cecil Howard certainly weren't.

I totally get both perspectives here.

We're just not going to send a lot of guys to the NFL. A player's best season should be when they're a 5th year senior with the type of talent we recruit. My thinking is, the more 5th year seniors we have, the better we'll probably be. That might not be true everywhere. I think it's true there.

I mean we've got people saying a reason to believe in the offense this year is because we have a 5th year senior. Why not at least keep that possibility alive for Dungey if we don't have to use him.

 

[RF2044]

The concept remains the same, just change the level of replacements to 3 and 4 star. Hunt was a 2 star. Dungey a high 3. The concept is you continue to recruit high(er) level replacements and let the chips fall. Maximizing for a 5th year happens only when you have the luxury of being good and having good options.

We haven't been good in forever. Why are we going to sacrifice the first part of next year to reap the benefits of 2019, when there's no guarantee (a) Shafer is around that long, (b) we don't recruit someone better than Dungey [arguably we have in Culpepper on paper] or (c) Dungey is even around in year 5, if he's any good? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, you glossed over the McNabb piece of my post. He wasn't McNabb 5th year senior level in his first 5 games of his redshirt freshman season. He struggled - which is what the non-redshirt supporters are saying they want Dungey to get out of the way this year, if possible.

Shafer & Syracuse's program can't afford to sit on someone with the sole purpose of giving an extra year at the back end, if Dungey is any good.

I must have imagined 14 of the last 16 years, where we had dreadful play from the quarterback position. Squandering a year for a prospect that the coaches believe to be a great system fit and a potential impact player for us doesn't make a lot of sense to me for precisely that reason--ESPECIALLY when it is logical to expect that he'd provide his best production that fifth year, as opposed to what will likely be neglible production as a true frosh. Again, if Hunt falters or gets injured--I'm all in on Dungey, and the equation changes. If he's better than Hunt and gives us a better chance to win this year, then I'm all in.

As to your McNabb comparison--here's what you didn't discuss. McNabb as a RF struggled even after having a redshirt season--which enabled him to get acclimated to the faster speed of the game, get a better command of the playbook, and an extra year to mature physically and get in tune with his teammates. He would have been exponentialy worse if we'd rushed him out onto the field as a true frosh than he was as a redshirt frosh.
One more thing: McNabb as a junior was solid, but he wasn't as good as McNabb from senior year. Not by a longshot. You're advocating flushing that fifth year down the toilet for what in all likelihood a limited number of snaps.

I don't dispute that Dungey playing would acclerate his learning cuve heading into next year a bit, but let's be honest--he'd be just as "veteran" after the first half of his first game as a starter next year as he will if he gets a handful of limited snaps this year. If he's really better than Hunt THIS YEAR and gives us the best chance to win THIS YEAR, then play him and I can squarely get behind that decision. But if Hunt is the better option, then play him, focus upon winning games, and don't worry so much about developmental PT.

 

[Scooch]

As opposed to him being such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB who is ready to play as a true frosh?

Which is weird, becuase AJ Long / Austin Wilson / Mitch Kimble / Chaley Loeb / John Kinder / David Legree / Andrew Robinson / Perry Patterson / Joe Fields / Cecil Howard certainly weren't.

My point is that none of us know. I'm certainly in no position to tell the coaching staff how to handle this kid's freshman year.

It's not exactly a leap to think that after the spring and summer they have realized that (a) Hunt is not meaningfully better than he's been, that (b) Long/Wilson aren't either, and that (c) Dungey has practiced at a significantly higher level than they expected. I mean by making him #2 they are basically admitting to the last 2 of those assumptions, right?

Like I said previously, I'm just not up in arms over the prospect of playing the kid. Apparently all of these highly touted QBs we have on the roster aren't good enough to beat out a true frosh for the #2 spot.

It just seems strange to me that so many have already decided this kid is McNabb '94 who's redshirt must be preserved at all costs.

 

[kcsu]

I must have imagined 14 of the last 16 years, where we had dreadful play from the quarterback position. Squandering a year for a prospect that the coaches believe to be a great system fit and a potential impact player for us doesn't make a lot of sense to me for precisely that reason--ESPECIALLY when it is logical to expect that he'd provide his best production that fifth year, as opposed to what will likely be neglible production as a true frosh. Again, if Hunt falters or gets injured--I'm all in on Dungey, and the equation changes. If he's better than Hunt and gives us a better chance to win this year, then I'm all in.

As to your McNabb comparison--here's what you didn't discuss. McNabb as a RF struggled even after having a redshirt season--which enabled him to get acclimated to the faster speed of the game, get a better command of the playbook, and an extra year to mature physically and get in tune with his teammates. He would have been exponentialy worse if we'd rushed him out onto the field as a true frosh than he was as a redshirt frosh.
One more thing: McNabb as a junior was solid, but he wasn't as good as McNabb from senior year. Not by a longshot. You're advocating flushing that fifth year down the toilet for what in all likelihood a limited number of snaps.

I don't dispute that Dungey playing would acclerate his learning cuve heading into next year a bit, but let's be honest--he'd be just as "veteran" after the first half of his first game as a starter next year as he will if he gets a handful of limited snaps this year. If he's really better than Hunt THIS YEAR and gives us the best chance to win THIS YEAR, then play him and I can squarely get behind that decision. But if Hunt is the better option, then play him, focus upon winning games, and don't worry so much about developmental PT.

He is not better than Hunt at this point but he is going to play count on it as you will see him in the second half of our first game if not sooner

 

[RF2044]

My point is that none of us know. I'm certainly in no position to tell the coaching staff how to handle this kid's freshman year.

It's not exactly a leap to think that after the spring and summer they have realized that (a) Hunt is not meaningfully better than he's been, that (b) Long/Wilson aren't either, and that (c) Dungey has practiced at a significantly higher level than they expected. I mean by making him #2 they are basically admitting to the last 2 of those assumptions, right?

Like I said previously, I'm just not up in arms over the prospect of playing the kid. Apparently all of these highly touted QBs we have on the roster aren't good enough to beat out a true frosh for the #2 spot.

It just seems strange to me that so many have already decided this kid is McNabb '94 who's redshirt must be preserved at all costs.

No, that's a misrepresentation. It's not exactly a leap to think that like most freshman QBs, Dungey probably isn't ready to perform at a high level. McNabb wasn't. Most aren't--including the vast majority of highly recruited guys [obviously there are limited exceptions].

I'm certainly not putting Dungey on the same level as McNabb, or saying that he'll have as "good" [in a different way, obviously the college game has changed from the mid-to-late 90s] of a career on the hill as McNabb did. Maybe he gets recruited over, and Moore or Culpepper [or the next guy] end up being better than him. I make no predictions about how his career will unfold, or what he's going to be able to produce as a fifth year player. All that I'm saying is that IF Hunt is more capable of getting us to six wins THIS YEAR than Dungey is, then I'd prefer to not squander a year of Dungey's eligiblity, because it isn't exactly a leap to think that his fifth year will be a lot more productive than his first year will be, when we have another QB in place who can get us to bowl eligibility. In other words, I don't see the benefit of a few snaps to get him ready for next year as being a good trade off for losing that year on the back end when he'd theoretically be at the peak of his collegiate developmental curve--ESPECIALLY when he'll be equally as "experienced" after the first half of his first game starting next year as he would having 20-25 extra snaps this year.

I'm sure as hell not up in arms over the prospect of playing the kid, either. I just think that people might want to wait for Friday to see what Hunt can do before they assume that [a] Hunt is not meaningfully better than he's been, or [c] Dungey is ready to play right now and give the team the best chance to win.

 

[Millhouse]

You're making a huge assumption that the team isn't going to be good enough to get to a bowl this year, and that Hunt won't perform better in the new offense. If both of those conditions prove true, then I'm with you.

But I'm not willing to make that assumption five days before the first game. Maybe we should see what Hunt can do in the new offense before completely writing him off and going back into rebuild mode for next year.

if you're against dungey getting series intentionally because you have more confidence about the bowls this year, that makes sense.
worrying about 2019 doesn't make much sense, that's what i was getting at
i'm not going to argue hard with anyone who doesn't want to risk those winnable important games. but i still think you could play him against URI, Wake, CMU, USF, LSU, Clemson . maybe you see how it goes in those tough but winnable games that are the key to everything

 

[Scooch]

No, that's a misrepresentation. It's not exactly a leap to think that like most freshman QBs, Dungey probably isn't ready to perform at a high level. McNabb wasn't. Most aren't--including the vast majority of highly recruited guys [obviously there are limited exceptions].

I'm certainly not putting Dungey on the same level as McNabb, or saying that he'll have as "good" [in a different way, obviously the college game has changed from the mid-to-late 90s] of a career on the hill as McNabb did. Maybe he gets recruited over, and Moore or Culpepper [or the next guy] end up being better than him.

I'm sure as hell not up in arms over the prospect of playing the kid, either. I just think that people might want to wait for Friday to see what Hunt can do before they assume that [a] Hunt is not meaningfully better than he's been, or [c] Dungey is ready to play right now and give the team the best chance to win.

It's not a leap to think he's not ready, but at the same time the coaches have watched him every day this summer, and apparently they think he's ready enough.

This isn't about what we as fans think of Hunt or whatever, this is about the coaches deciding that Dungey is better than the two QBs who got significant game action last year. And I assume the gap is pretty darn wide.

As I said about Shafer when he committed to Lester at OC: this is his ship to sail. If he thinks Dungey is the best choice to be the primary backup, then it's his choice.

 

[RF2044]

It's not a leap to think he's not ready, but at the same time the coaches have watched him every day this summer, and apparently they think he's ready enough.

This isn't about what we as fans think of Hunt or whatever, this is about the coaches deciding that Dungey is better than the two QBs who got significant game action last year. And I assume the gap is pretty darn wide.

As I said about Shafer when he committed to Lester at OC: this is his ship to sail. If he thinks Dungey is the best choice to be the primary backup, then it's his choice.

Who is arguing with him being the backup, or questioning Shafer's decision to make him that? Certainly not me. What I'm saying is that if he's the BACKUP, and not going to play a significant role, or give us a better chance to win than Hunt, then we shouldn't waste a year of his eligibility over limited snaps.

If he's capable of contributing more, or supplanting Hunt as the STARTING , then that is a different story.

And for the record, I think your first sentence is an unsubstantiated attribution. We don't know that the coaches think he's "ready enough" to play now. I think that's being infrerred by some posters, based upon some favorable comments from coaches. Maybe they just think he's more ready than Wilson, or are projecting on upside compared to Wilson. :noidea:

 

[DoctorBombay]

You're making a huge assumption that the team isn't going to be good enough to get to a bowl this year, and that Hunt won't perform better in the new offense. If both of those conditions prove true, then I'm with you.

But I'm not willing to make that assumption five days before the first game. Maybe we should see what Hunt can do in the new offense before completely writing him off and going back into rebuild mode for next year.

Stop making sense. What would be the fun in doing this?^^^

 

[K Otto XLIV]

19?

A comfortable lead. IMO that number is 19. 16 is only two scores. 17 is three scores but is doable. Needing 3 scores with two 2 point conversions is pretty safe. If you bring in Dungey and he screws up leading to a score, you at worst are still up 11.

 

[TheCusian]

This is the point where I snarkily mock everyone who has said "now we're deeper at quarterback than we've been in yearrrrrrrrsss!!!!!" in the past 24 months. People fall in love with QBs they've never see take a snap. Now Dungey is such a sure-fire, all-ACC QB that it is imperative that we preserve his redshirt and ability to be a 4-year starter. Which is weird, because I was told that AJ Long/Austin Wilson/Mitch Kimble/Charley Loeb/John Kinder/David Legree/Andrew Robinson/Perry Patterson/Joe Fields was that guy.

You do this a lot. This happened before so it must be that way now. History does repeat itself; until it doesn't.

We should take it for what it is: the coaches really like him. They think he'll be a good football player. I'm going off of that. Because they have seen him take a snap.

No one is saying he's a sure-fire anything.