Either get on the Dino train or shut the hell up

[Alsacs]

But recruiting? The ACC and the IPF would help, no doubt. But he seemingly hated it. It's hard to maintain success with talent deficiencies year over year.

Marrone doesn't go 14-23 from 2013-2015.
He doesn't light it up either but with the IPF and contract taken care of Marrone gets more out of whatever he brings in over what Shafer did.

As I said we lost an architect when Marrone left and hired the painter to design the next house. Marrone was solid not great and we could have used that stability.

 

[TheCusian]

imo one of the biggest board myths was how bad of a recruiter Marrone was. Sure he didn't like it, but it stil doesn't mean his staff was ineffective. I'm not even going to try and judge was first 2 classes because we were dealing with probably the worst facilities in the country and were coming out of the worst period of football in the history of the program. Still, Marrone implemented the groundwork for his strategy the first couple years and I think we were just going to start seeing the results of working the plan. It's well known that Marrone set certain parameters before even extending an offer. He also targeted certain regions and was developing relationships with the programs in the region. I thought his 2012 recruiting class was the best one we had to date and more importantly had very few misses top to bottom. His 2013 class was shaping up to be even better before he left. Our facilities weren't totally renovated until 2012. I truly believe that if he had everything we have at our disposal now he would be recruiting at just as good a clip as we had since he left and probably better. Plus, not to be taken for granted, is his ability to finding hidden gems, especially on the OL. I know it's what if, but I would have loved to see the end result of his rebuild if he followed it through to the end. For the record I really do think Babers is the man to get this turned around and Shafer wasn't. Unfortunately we're going to need a year or 2 while he once again overhauls the roster.

I'm not totally sure I buy all of that - but I do think winning and keeping the same HC would yield far better results over a bunch of years. We might not have had the same ceiling as Babers - but I'd buy that we'd be pretty good.

 

[anomander]

I'm not totally sure I buy all of that - but I do think winning and keeping the same HC would yield far better results over a bunch of years. We might not have had the same ceiling as Babers - but I'd buy that we'd be pretty good.

I agree there is a higher ceiling with Babers and what he is trying to do.

 

[TheCusian]

Marrone doesn't go 14-23 from 2013-2015.
He doesn't light it up either but with the IPF and contract taken care of Marrone gets more out of whatever he brings in over what Shafer did.

As I said we lost an architect when Marrone left and hired the painter to design the next house. Marrone was solid not great and we could have used that stability.

Agreed. That is not in doubt.

Slightly disagree with categorizing Shafer that way as without him Marrone's architectural design might have been pretty faulty in year 1-3.

But Marrone was a better HC, for sure.

 

[leftytg]

I swear some people complaining about yesterday didn't even bother to watch the game. I'm stunned at how so many are complaining as if the conditions yesterday were not extreme and disproportionately detrimental to the style Syracuse plays. Sometimes there are events that are outliers, and are not particularly useful in evaluation going forward.

Relax guys - Syracuse won't play in hurricane conditions every week!

 

[CousCuse]

I swear some people complaining about yesterday didn't even bother to watch the game. I'm stunned at how so many are complaining as if the conditions yesterday were not extreme and disproportionately detrimental to the style Syracuse plays. Sometimes there are events that are outliers, and are not particularly useful in evaluation going forward.

Relax guys - Syracuse won't play in hurricane conditions every week!

North Carolina was lucky it was a Hurricane or Va Tech would have really beat the living crap out of them .

 

[PhatOrange]

Love the total offense numbers argument without taking into account the additional 25 plays per game. Reeks of desperation to find something good to this point in the season.

Reality is that this team is no better this year than last year (probably worse) and that's a tough pill to swallow after many said we would be better if we just had a competent staff.

Not sure I see how the 25 extra plays is a bad thing. Are you saying we should be averaging 800 yards a game to make those extra plays a good thing?

More plays means things are better. The ypp will go up as kids get acclimated and the OL gets seasoned.

Didn't marrone strive for 90 plays a game?

 

[tipphill]

I swear some people complaining about yesterday didn't even bother to watch the game. I'm stunned at how so many are complaining as if the conditions yesterday were not extreme and disproportionately detrimental to the style Syracuse plays. Sometimes there are events that are outliers, and are not particularly useful in evaluation going forward.

Relax guys - Syracuse won't play in hurricane conditions every week!

yes we do its called no ol and etc etc.

 

[TheCusian]

I think it's time to put some stats into perspective given our penchant for year to year comparisons.

Total yards being up is good. No caveats. It's good.

Plays per game being up is good because the more plays you run the more chances you have at breaking one.

Possessions per game being up is good because the more times you possess the ball the more chances you have to score.

YPP (yards per play) measures efficiency. If it's the same as last year but yards, possessions, and plays are all up the result is a better offense. The YPP will go up as the team gets better at this offense (experience, better players, etc).

 

[FortyFourCT]

I don't have the will to go through this whole thread, but I have been positive until yesterday, but I have to say this:
I love Coach Babers philosophy and his plan and I think it is what we need to bring SU football back, but I've seen things that make me wonder if Dino is good enough to realize his plan. I've seen some very boneheaded coaching decisions.
I pray he proves me wrong, because if he gets this right it could be a fun ride.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't have the will to go through this whole thread, but I have been positive until yesterday, but I have to say this:
I love Coach Babers philosophy and his plan and I think it is what we need to bring SU football back, but I've seen things that make me wonder if Dino is good enough to realize his plan. I've seen some very boneheaded coaching decisions.
I pray he proves me wrong, because if he gets this right it could be a fun ride.

You don't need to read the entire thread. Yesterday sucked but my god it was a mulligan due to the weather.

 

[Eric15]

The negativity in these threads is unbelievable.
I mean give the guy a bleeping chance. This threads are so stupid.
Babers is not Gerg, Babers is not shafer.

I swear we deserve to suck with the expectation of instant gratification our fanbase expects.
The weather killed our passing game tonight. Our Ol was without 3 starters. Can people just calm the hell down. We aren't a bowl team okay well give Dino a chance.

Alsacs, I like you and I think you're a good contributor to this board, but this thread unequivocally sucks.

Greg Robinson, Doug Marrone, Scott Shafer and Dino Babers all had bad starts to their career. Out of the four, nobody has received more positive support from SU fans on this board than Dino.

 

[Alsacs]

Alsacs, I like you and I think you're a good contributor to this board, but this thread unequivocally sucks.

Greg Robinson, Doug Marrone, Scott Shafer and Dino Babers all had bad starts to their career. Out of the four, nobody has received more positive support from SU fans on this board than Dino.

You have your opinion I disagree. It doesn't suck to me and if doesn't suck to me I honestly don't care what you think. I ignore plenty. I can't stand the Shafer people and I stand by this.

 

[Eric15]

You have your opinion I disagree. It doesn't suck to me and if doesn't suck to me I honestly don't care what you think. I ignore plenty. I can't stand the Shafer people and I stand by this.

You did one of these type of threads earlier in the season, also. This isn't North Korea where everyone has to be a robot and fall in line. If people have genuine criticism about Babers, and as long as they aren't trolling or being argumentative, then their opinions matter. You're out of line telling people to "think X or shut the hell up."

 

[OrangeinOmaha]

Greg Robinson, Doug Marrone, Scott Shafer and Dino Babers all had bad starts to their career. Out of the four, nobody has received more positive support from SU fans on this board than Dino.

What worries me is while the die hards are giving more positive support to Dino the casual fans have completely turned their back on the program when you compare the attendance numbers. That's where a winnable game like last night really comes back to hurt. You go from possibly being 3-3 and have a shot at a bowl game with a couple winnable games left to being 2-4 and basically forgetting about a bowl game and the extra practices.

Let's be honest, we are going to tune in/show up every week (no matter what some people say after ugly losses) but trying to get a casual fan back is gonna be tough when you have only 3 wins in a year.

 

[Ish88888]

I'd rather see restraint on a public message board. It's fine to be disappointed. I am, you are, the coaches and players are. But cmon, let's not publicly start criticizing the staff 6 games in to year one when admittedly he said it's going to take a few years to turn around.

I like dino, but the staff does deserve some criticism. We can be competitive and even win a few on the way up. Rather criricize the staff than the kids. Tired ofthe lack of talent bs. These kids are talented, were 3* on average out of hs. That's p5 talent. How do you think they feel with all this talent talk? Yes, we need an upgrade at certain positions, but we have 6-6 talent currently, believe it.

 

[Ish88888]

Agreed. That is not in doubt.

Slightly disagree with categorizing Shafer that way as without him Marrone's architectural design might have been pretty faulty in year 1-3.

But Marrone was a better HC, for sure.

We were ready to take off the year marrone left. Our offense that last year was sharp and clicking. Keep Shafer as DC and HC as OC and we had something brewing, including some key NYC recruits that bailed with Dougie.

 

[Alsacs]

You did one of these type of threads earlier in the season, also. This isn't North Korea where everyone has to be a robot and fall in line. If people have genuine criticism about Babers, and as long as they aren't trolling or being argumentative, then their opinions matter. You're out of line telling people to "think X or shut the hell up."

I respect your opinion but I disagree.

 

[OrangeDW]

I like dino, but the staff does deserve some criticism. We can be competitive and even win a few on the way up. Rather criricize the staff than the kids. Tired ofthe lack of talent bs. These kids are talented, were 3* on average out of hs. That's p5 talent. How do you think they feel with all this talent talk? Yes, we need an upgrade at certain positions, but we have 6-6 talent currently, believe it.

3 star talent that is mostly freshmen and sophomores with little depth does not make for a talented team at this level of ball.

 

[RF2044]

I like dino, but the staff does deserve some criticism. We can be competitive and even win a few on the way up. Rather criricize the staff than the kids. Tired ofthe lack of talent bs. These kids are talented, were 3* on average out of hs. That's p5 talent. How do you think they feel with all this talent talk? Yes, we need an upgrade at certain positions, but we have 6-6 talent currently, believe it.

There is literally nothing in your post that is accurate, unfortunately.

We have talent at a COUPLE of positional units to be competitive, but are squarely lacking at several other positions--most notably, OL, RB, TE, DE, CB, and S. That's a lot of positions on the team that are deficient--and in some cases, the talent gap between us and our peer programs is stark. You've rationalized the talent being better than it is to fit your perpetually critical stance on Dino and the new coaching staff.

 

[GoSU96]

I like dino, but the staff does deserve some criticism. We can be competitive and even win a few on the way up. Rather criricize the staff than the kids. Tired ofthe lack of talent bs. These kids are talented, were 3* on average out of hs. That's p5 talent. How do you think they feel with all this talent talk? Yes, we need an upgrade at certain positions, but we have 6-6 talent currently, believe it.

Name another program in the country playing with the youth on both lines that SU has.

 

[Ish88888]

There is literally nothing in your post that is accurate, unfortunately.

We have talent at a COUPLE of positional units to be competitive, but are squarely lacking at several other positions--most notably, OL, RB, TE, DE, CB, and S. That's a lot of positions on the team that are deficient--and in some cases, the talent gap between us and our peer programs is stark. You've rationalized the talent being better than it is to fit your perpetually critical stance on Dino and the new coaching staff.

I agree,glaring at CB. We have good , young talent at OL. Yes, i have been critical of dino. He was out coached last night. Schooled. We are very predictable on offense. I love dino and the staff he has assembled on offense. Not convinced the t2 can do it at this level. That said, dino will run the same plays, same formations until he gets " better recruits" in here to hopefully beat defenses with the same 8-10 plays. Beat them with stars. Yes, ED had arguably his worst game, but also wasn't put into a position to succeed.

 

[RF2044]

I agree,glaring at CB. We have good , young talent at OL. Yes, i have been critical of dino. He was out coached last night. Schooled. We are very predictable on offense. I love dino and the staff he has assembled on offense. Not convinced the t2 can do it at this level. That said, dino will run the same plays, same formations until he gets " better recruits" in here to hopefully beat defenses with the same 8-10 plays. Beat them with stars. Yes, ED had arguably his worst game, but also wasn't put into a position to succeed.

The problem is that all of our good young talent [now that Palmer is injured] are RF or true frosh on the OL. That isn't a formula for success, and the majority of those guys aren't ready to contribute at a high level yet. Think about this for a second--every one of the DEs in our rotation are true frosh, with 1 RF sprinkled in [Pickard], and the transfer from Colorado who couldn't get on the field for them.

"Outcoached" is an opinion, one that I don't agree with. Players make plays. Right now, we don't pass block well. We haven't run blocked all season long. There's only so much that the coaches can do right now with the personnel on hand, the injuries we've had, etc. This coaching staff has committed to implementing systems on both sides of the ball, not trying to mold the systems to the incumbents. And the growing pains have been harsh this season, but with the longer term outcomes being what they're focused on.

 

[Ish88888]

Name another program in the country playing with the youth on both lines that SU has.

Good point, cant answer that. All i am saying is the oline, minus last night has actually done ok. The interior dline has been stout, the defensive ends, young and inconsistent. The scary thing is, this offense, while trying to be fast, throws the defense under the bus. If the offense goes 3 and out, it's devastating and will grind on the defense for years to come unless we can sustain drives. Then again, dino doesn't want to do that. Its happening, ask bcubs.

 

[RF2044]

Good point, cant answer that. All i am saying is the oline, minus last night has actually done ok. The interior dline has been stout, the defensive ends, young and inconsistent. The scary thing is, this offense, while trying to be fast, throws the defense under the bus. If the offense goes 3 and out, it's devastating and will grind on the defense for years to come unless we can sustain drives. Then again, dino doesn't want to do that. Its happening, ask bcubs.

Have they, though? The OL has been a huge liability in the running game all season long. Not that the RBs have been great, either, but my opinion only, the OL has barely been acceptable, given that they struggle to pass block for longer than 2 seconds. Injuries haven't helped.

The bolded part of your post is interesting, because that's exactly what the T2 strategically is designed to do--compliment what we do on offense, and slow the opponent down. We just don't have the right personnel right now to staff it. You've been really critical of the T2 and the performance this year, but maybe when things click better in year 2, when we have better system fits on the team after a class or two or three of recruits, etc. the bolded criticism from your post won't be a factor anymore.

Again, the coaching staff is building with an eye on the strategic long game, not to adjust the schemes to play differently than how they intend to play on either side of the ball even if there might be some slight short term benefits. The band aid has been ripped off.