Class of 2015 - G Franklin Howard (MD) Verballed to Syracuse | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2015 G Franklin Howard (MD) Verballed to Syracuse

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I really enjoyed this post. Normally, I'm of the belief that these things tend to "work themselves out." But I share your concern about Patterson's role going forward. It does look like he will be hard-pressed for minutes.

Having only followed recruiting closely for the last 5 years or so, could it be that this is a byproduct (or collateral damage) of a peak period in recuriting? Has Cuse historically carried close to the maximum of 13 scholarship players for a several year period? I seem to think they normally had about 10-11 with 2-3 walk-on schollies, but I could be wrong.
We have had a lot of players make the freshman to soph jump and improve dramatically. It remains to be seen if Buss can be one of those guys, but if he can, then there may well be minutes for him. Personally, I think that as much as Trevor has improved that there are still holes and inconsistencies in his game. Trevor may well close the holes and develop more consistency, if not there may be minutes for somebody who has the game to fill those gaps.
 
Would have loved to have a defensive center like Fab Melo on top of a super athetic forward like Grant, Mccullough, Maybe next years Roberson.
I love Obokoh and Rak but having a 7'0er to weak side shot block like Fab on top of Grant or Mcculough would be awesome.

I Wonder if Lydon will prove to have the athleticism, quick hops and defensive build for the zone like Roberson Grant Mccullough in the longrun. Hope he developes a waffles meanstreak in him. Wouldn't mind grabbing another Grant Mccullough Roberson type for 015 and rolling the dice with Lydon and Bj as the shooting forwards (hope one of them can pull up off the dribble in the lane).
 
Would have loved to have a defensive center like Fab Melo on top of a super athetic forward like Grant, Mccullough, Maybe next years Roberson.
I love Obokoh and Rak but having a 7'0er to weak side shot block like Fab on top of Grant or Mcculough would be awesome.

I Wonder if Lydon will prove to have the athleticism, quick hops and defensive build for the zone like Roberson Grant Mccullough in the longrun. Hope he developes a waffles meanstreak in him. Wouldn't mind grabbing another Grant Mccullough Roberson type for 015 and rolling the dice with Lydon and Bj as the shooting forwards (hope one of them can pull up off the dribble in the lane).
Not too many high quality 7 footers like Fab out there to recruit as you're talking about. Plus it's not always about the height. Wingspan is the key measurement you should look out for. Give me the 6'9/6'10 guy with the freakish 7'3 and above wingspan, than the 7 footer like the Zeller brothers who all have T-Rex arms and can't block shots in the paint. Fab had a 7'3 wingspan, which is why he was so effective in the middle, but you can't always make the assumption that every big man has great length.

Lydon does the athleticism, hops, and should have the defensive build for the zone by the time he hits the SU campus. Just look at the job New Hampton did with Vonleh's body transforming from a skinny lanky wing, to a now strong physical PF down low.
 
I think Lydon is so thin looking that his physicality, hustle and athleticism are undersold a bit. Sure looks like he plays hard, rebounds hard and isn't afraid of contact from what I can gather. I'm very excited about his game.
 
It shouldn't at all. Battle is a one and done type super talent. Howard is an excellent 4 year program guy that developes into and NBA pick. Think the ideal plan would Be Ennis (crossing fingers)/Joseph in 14. Joseph/Howard in 15. Battle/Howard in 16. And Howard/? In 17.

Well I was more likening it to the way Briscoe wants nothing to do with us because he can't come in and be "the guy." If we bring in Howard (which it appears we will, so the staff obviously believes they can still get Battle) I just worry battle will look at the 3 of guards on our roster (see below) and want to go to another top program where he will be guaranteed PT no matter what.

Expected Guards for 2016

Ennis (not likely, if so gotta be his final season) - Junior
Joseph - Sophomore
Howard - Freshman
Gbinije - Senior
Cooney - Senior
Patterson - Junior
Johnson - Junior
Richardson - Freshman

Thats a whole lotta guards, tough for anybody to crack the rotation. Especially when JB did what he did to a guy like MCW and other freshman who have to wait their turn. Most definitely want Battle though, the kid is going to be amazing, and want him in Orange in the
 
Well I was more likening it to the way Briscoe wants nothing to do with us because he can't come in and be "the guy." If we bring in Howard (which it appears we will, so the staff obviously believes they can still get Battle) I just worry battle will look at the 3 of guards on our roster (see below) and want to go to another top program where he will be guaranteed PT no matter what.

Expected Guards for 2016

Ennis (not likely, if so gotta be his final season) - Junior
Joseph - Sophomore
Howard - Freshman
Gbinije - Senior
Cooney - Senior
Patterson - Junior
Johnson - Junior
Richardson - Freshman

Thats a whole lotta guards, tough for anybody to crack the rotation. Especially when JB did what he did to a guy like MCW and other freshman who have to wait their turn. Most definitely want Battle though, the kid is going to be amazing, and want him in Orange in the

The guards you listed are the expected guards for 2015-16. Not sure if you meant 2015-16 or 2016-17. Either way we are going to be stacked with guards for the foreseeable future. If we were to land Howard and Battle, I think it would be a good idea for Howard and Patterson both to redshirt a year.

I know some other people were mentioning how players can make the leap from their freshmen year to their sophomore years, but you also have to take into consideration Boeheim's loyalty to proven players. We started Scoop and Brandon over Dion and MCW just a couple of years ago. Boeheim will play the experienced players that he can trust over the unproven players. I don't see Cooney losing any minutes to Richardson, Patterson, Howard, or any other guard as long as he can knock down his three ball. Heck, Boeheim still leaves Cooney out there in games this year when he's ice cold because he has confidence and trust in him to bounce back. That's something that a player like Buss hasn't been able to accomplish in a meaningful game. And when will Buss get that opportunity to gain Boeheim's trust? Either with a Cooney injury or when Cooney leaves after his senior year. Same goes for Howard. He would get stuck behind KJ, Gbinije, and eventually Battle. If we do land Battle, Howard would then likely have to wait until 2017-18 until he could even potentially start.

I think redshirting Buss next year and then Howard his freshmen year could help us in the long run. It would be asking a lot out of these kids to sit out a year to work on their games, but if they can envision the big picture, it would help not only them, but also the program.

And while on the topic of redshirting, is it too late to redshirt Coleman cause I just saw he's done for the year.
 
Zeus, It appears it probably is to late to redshirt coleman (in the DC is done for the year thread guys explain the numbers far better than I could)

But I still expect them to appeal and give it a whirl. It can't hurt.
 
The guards you listed are the expected guards for 2015-16. Not sure if you meant 2015-16 or 2016-17. Either way we are going to be stacked with guards for the foreseeable future. If we were to land Howard and Battle, I think it would be a good idea for Howard and Patterson both to redshirt a year.

I know some other people were mentioning how players can make the leap from their freshmen year to their sophomore years, but you also have to take into consideration Boeheim's loyalty to proven players. We started Scoop and Brandon over Dion and MCW just a couple of years ago. Boeheim will play the experienced players that he can trust over the unproven players. I don't see Cooney losing any minutes to Richardson, Patterson, Howard, or any other guard as long as he can knock down his three ball. Heck, Boeheim still leaves Cooney out there in games this year when he's ice cold because he has confidence and trust in him to bounce back. That's something that a player like Buss hasn't been able to accomplish in a meaningful game. And when will Buss get that opportunity to gain Boeheim's trust? Either with a Cooney injury or when Cooney leaves after his senior year. Same goes for Howard. He would get stuck behind KJ, Gbinije, and eventually Battle. If we do land Battle, Howard would then likely have to wait until 2017-18 until he could even potentially start.

I think redshirting Buss next year and then Howard his freshmen year could help us in the long run. It would be asking a lot out of these kids to sit out a year to work on their games, but if they can envision the big picture, it would help not only them, but also the program.

And while on the topic of redshirting, is it too late to redshirt Coleman cause I just saw he's done for the year.
Not saying that I disagree because you are making very good points, but if you redshirt Buss then he'll be collecting social security checks by the time he graduates. He basically did have a redshirt year last season by prepping at Brewster when he had offers to attend another school right away after being screwed over by IU. He's already 20 years old, so imho unless an injury occurs I can't see him being too excited about the idea of redshirting at this point.
 
Not saying that I disagree because you are making very good points, but if you redshirt Buss then he'll be collecting social security checks by the time he graduates. He basically did have a redshirt year last season by prepping at Brewster when he had offers to attend another school right away after being screwed over by IU. He's already 20 years old, so imho unless an injury occurs I can't see him being too excited about the idea of redshirting at this point.

I'd rather not see Patterson redshirt but Cooney is getting 30 mpg at SG as a sophomore. It is possible that Buss can cut into those minutes, but I doubt he'd be getting any more than 10-15 mpg until his senior year, especially with Richardson on board for 2015. It really comes down to two options. Buss either develops PG skills to be a viable backup which I think he could do, or he waits three years until its his turn to shine. If Buss can be serviceable as a backup PG than Howard isn't a must in my eyes. If he stays as a 6'3 SG, than I see the need for Howard but I don't see the need for Buss to wait. As you said, he isn't in the best position to redshirt, but he also isn't in the best position to contribute if we land Howard.
 
Zeus, It appears it probably is to late to redshirt coleman (in the DC is done for the year thread guys explain the numbers far better than I could)

But I still expect them to appeal and give it a whirl. It can't hurt.
"Coleman has played in too many games to automatically be considered for a medical redshirt. According to NCAA rules a player must have played in less than 30 percent of his team's games. Syracuse has 31 regular-season games. The NCAA counts a conference tournament as one game. That would give Syracuse 32 games and 30 percent would be 9.6 games. Coleman has appeared in 13 games.

The university could petition the NCAA for a waiver, especially since this is the second straight year that Coleman has lost time due to an injury. That wouldn't happen until after the season."
Mike Waters
 
"Coleman has played in too many games to automatically be considered for a medical redshirt. According to NCAA rules a player must have played in less than 30 percent of his team's games. Syracuse has 31 regular-season games. The NCAA counts a conference tournament as one game. That would give Syracuse 32 games and 30 percent would be 9.6 games. Coleman has appeared in 13 games.

The university could petition the NCAA for a waiver, especially since this is the second straight year that Coleman has lost time due to an injury. That wouldn't happen until after the season."
Mike Waters

Like I said Zeus, somebody will be able to give you a better overall answer! well done OE
 
Howard should be returning soon from injury. He's made two more visits than necessary to the school circling the drain, aka Gtown. Other local schools: UMd and UVa still there? Before injury, had a really nice game, MCW-like with the long arms and sweet floaters. Autry's old school in Va ...
 
Francis or someone else with this kind of knowledge, what is the success rate of SG's trying to make a conversion to PG as late as Jr or Sr year in high school? I understand that Howard has the height that we loved so much having with MCW, so it would be great to have 6' 6" at the point, but how successful do you think he can realistically be? Especially as he is also coming back from an injury.

It seems like Buss has tried to make this similar move, starting during his prep year. Now I don't have the opportunity to watch any practices, so I don't know that he is still playing PG this year (though I hope so!)
But, it seems obvious that he isn't quite there at the moment.

I know there is no definite answer, as it will depend on many variables, such as desire and work ethic. But, what kind of time frame is it reasonable for such a conversion to result in a player capable of starting and playing significant minutes?

Thanks in advance for the answer.
 
Francis or someone else with this kind of knowledge, what is the success rate of SG's trying to make a conversion to PG as late as Jr or Sr year in high school? I understand that Howard has the height that we loved so much having with MCW, so it would be great to have 6' 6" at the point, but how successful do you think he can realistically be? Especially as he is also coming back from an injury.

It seems like Buss has tried to make this similar move, starting during his prep year. Now I don't have the opportunity to watch any practices, so I don't know that he is still playing PG this year (though I hope so!)
But, it seems obvious that he isn't quite there at the moment.

I know there is no definite answer, as it will depend on many variables, such as desire and work ethic. But, what kind of time frame is it reasonable for such a conversion to result in a player capable of starting and playing significant minutes?

Thanks in advance for the answer.
From my point of view I think the players that make the best transition from SG to PG are the ones who have always been natural playmakers with the ball and can create their own offense. For example MCW in HS wasn't always viewed as a PG and scouts were confused where to label his future position. He handled the rock exclusively for his HS/AAU teams, so even though he was tall and most thought he would eventually mainly be a wing Hopkins had other ideas. Hop spotted him early and watched him in games, open gyms, and brought him to the Elite Camp and from there recruited him strictly as a PG. Even though Howard isn't mainly a PG yet, he does play a combo role helping his team out with the ball handling duties and being a playmaker with the ball. Red used to coach for Howard's HS and AAU team, so he obviously has seen Howard for a long time and knows what his abilities and upside are. If Red and JB think this kid can run point, then I think they have earned the right for all of us to trust them. My only preference would be to wait and see how he bounces back from the ACL injury before pushing for a commitment, but once again in the staff we trust.

Buss and Mike G never ran point in HS, which is why trying to start the transition in college is much more difficult. It helps that Howard has been one of the main ball handlers for his team and has already been practicing point since the injury. That would give him 2 years before heading into college to be more ready to handle that role than it has for Buss and Mike G, where it has basically been on the job training.
 
8 guards on the team - that can't be good. If we get Battle and Howard that would be 9! No way that happens. Even if we lose Ennis and get only one of Howard or Battle that is still 7. Manageable but still guard heavy. Bringing in 4 guards this season may turn out to be a problem.

Well I was more likening it to the way Briscoe wants nothing to do with us because he can't come in and be "the guy." If we bring in Howard (which it appears we will, so the staff obviously believes they can still get Battle) I just worry battle will look at the 3 of guards on our roster (see below) and want to go to another top program where he will be guaranteed PT no matter what.

Expected Guards for 2016

Ennis (not likely, if so gotta be his final season) - Junior
Joseph - Sophomore
Howard - Freshman
Gbinije - Senior
Cooney - Senior
Patterson - Junior
Johnson - Junior
Richardson - Freshman

Thats a whole lotta guards, tough for anybody to crack the rotation. Especially when JB did what he did to a guy like MCW and other freshman who have to wait their turn. Most definitely want Battle though, the kid is going to be amazing, and want him in Orange in the
 
8 guards on the team - that can't be good. If we get Battle and Howard that would be 9! No way that happens. Even if we lose Ennis and get only one of Howard or Battle that is still 7. Manageable but still guard heavy. Bringing in 4 guards this season may turn out to be a problem.
Good thing thats not accurate. Cooney and MikeG are seniors in 2015, Johnson will likely play more at the 3 than the 2. As mentioned Ennis is gone by 2014 at the latest. That leaves for 2015 guards, pg Joseph, sg Cooney, MikeG (can play 1or 3 as well), and Patterson. Maybe Howard. For 2016, pg Joseph maybe, Battle, Howard, sg Richardson, Patterson... 2 definites at sg, one maybe pg if he's not in the NBA, a star recruit we want and a good program recruit we want. Not exactly enough to push away anyone yet.
 
Good thing thats not accurate. Cooney and MikeG are seniors in 2015, Johnson will likely play more at the 3 than the 2. As mentioned Ennis is gone by 2014 at the latest. That leaves for 2015 guards, pg Joseph, sg Cooney, MikeG (can play 1or 3 as well), and Patterson. Maybe Howard. For 2016, pg Joseph maybe, Battle, Howard, sg Richardson, Patterson... 2 definites at sg, one maybe pg if he's not in the NBA, a star recruit we want and a good program recruit we want. Not exactly enough to push away anyone yet.
Cooney redshirted..is eligible for 2016, Is he not?
 
Cooney redshirted..is eligible for 2016, Is he not?
Soph now... year 2013 for recruiting purposes. 2014 jr, joseph fr. 2015 sr, Richardson fr. 2016 gone when Battle would come in.
 
Soph now... year 2013 for recruiting purposes. 2014 jr, joseph fr. 2015 sr, Richardson fr. 2016 gone when Battle would come in.
What an incredibly confusing way to express a simple point.
 
Syracuse Basketball ‏@syracusebball6m
Update: Franklin Howard Will Not Visit This Weekend http://cusebasketball.net/articles/franklin-howard-to-visit… #OrangeNation

Little bummed on this. Need a couple program guys and need another ball handler for 2015. Sounds like he wants to play in front of all 14 Hoya fans.

Michael Bohlin ‏@MBohlin2476m
'15 #Hoyas offer Frank Howard (@Jesussss_ ) will make his season debut tomorrow when Paul VI takes on Gonzaga.

Regardless of where he ends up, good for this kid getting back onto the court finally.
 
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