Great exposure for the program...

[Orangeman]

I'm not arguing that point at all. It was a strange time out, and the apparent miscommunication between the coaches and Norton was baffling on that kick. As I said, I fully understand the frustration people are feeling. All I'm saying is that we saw mistakes from the coaches that we saw last week, and some that we saw the weeks before. So it just seems odd that THIS game would be the last straw. That's all.

It wasn't a strange time-out.

It was an awful one...and it demonstrated that they have no idea what they're doing, like, at all.

Again, I am not saying I want the coach fired, but he's made close to $4m in 3 years and he doesn't get that?

Absurd.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

we are averaging 30 points a game

Misleading statistic. This isn't a 30 points per game offense. Nowhere close.

 

[CuseOnly]

Yes. It might have been different with Clark and Washington. But we don't have a 4 star kid. the kids that might flip, they can be replaced. Maybe not this year, but would you rather have no long term future?

How do you know that the new coach after Shafer has a long term future when you are openly advocating that he be fired basically after 2.5 years?

Answer - You don't because if the same thing happens witht he next coach, you will be advocating blowing the whole thing up again, just like now.

Again...why would a coach come here knowing he has 2.5 years basically to turn it around (which is impossible BTW) before the fanbase turns on him and he is fired?

 

[007]

Misleading statistic. This isn't a 30 points per game offense. Nowhere close.

Right. The offense is averaging 23 points/game. Defense and ST scores drive the total point productions up.

 

[TheCusian]

Misleading statistic. This isn't a 30 points per game offense. Nowhere close.

Irrelevant to his point. He didn't say offensive - he said the team. What's crazy is we have enough D and special teams scores for the difference to matter.

 

[iommi]

How do you know that the new coach after Shafer has a long term future when you are openly advocating that he be fired basically after 2.5 years?

Answer - You don't because if the same thing happens witht he next coach, you will be advocating blowing the whole thing up again, just like now.

Again...why would a coach come here knowing he has 2.5 years basically to turn it around (which is impossible BTW) before the fanbase turns on him and he is fired?

We weren't looking to turn it around; We expected Shafer to build off the foundation that Marrone laid. We expected to get to the next level, not regress. We expected to beat a few power 5 teams, not just Wake Freakin' Forest. We also expected the COACH to get better as he went along, not continue to make the same boneheaded mistakes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Irrelevant to his point. He didn't say offensive - he said the team. What's crazy is we have enough D and special teams scores for the difference to matter.

We don't though. That's the thing.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I don't want to see us become the coaching carousel but its damn hard to hold onto hope with some of the decisions Shafer makes. Another coach means another reset of everything and another 2 years rebuilding. ugh, all of it sucks anyway you look at it

 

[CuseOnly]

We weren't looking to turn it around; We expected Shafer to build off the foundation that Marrone laid. We expected to get to the next level, not regress. We expected to beat a few power 5 teams, not just Wake Freakin' Forest. We also expected the COACH to get better as he went along, not continue to make the same boneheaded mistakes.

You aren't answering the question...

 

[dasher]

How do you know that the new coach after Shafer has a long term future when you are openly advocating that he be fired basically after 2.5 years?

Answer - You don't because if the same thing happens witht he next coach, you will be advocating blowing the whole thing up again, just like now.

Again...why would a coach come here knowing he has 2.5 years basically to turn it around (which is impossible BTW) before the fanbase turns on him and he is fired?

Why did we call time out at the end of the first half? I have been on SS's side. But it's every week now. Every week he has a move that just can't be explained. But most important, why should we expect that it's going to get better? That is the key thing. If he was getting better as a coach, I would be a-ok with him. I don't care about the record this year. 3-9 5-7 doesn't matter. But show me that you get it. Explain the time out and I even give him 3 more years. But you can't. Because it was ridiculous. We gave them time for a drive. And they took it. We went shot gun in the other game from the 1 and SS says when you get a team you can call your own plays. That isn't an answer. You want our support, if you can't win, at least explain why you did the dumb thing you did. But he can't.

 

[dasher]

How do you know that the new coach after Shafer has a long term future when you are openly advocating that he be fired basically after 2.5 years?

Answer - You don't because if the same thing happens witht he next coach, you will be advocating blowing the whole thing up again, just like now.

Again...why would a coach come here knowing he has 2.5 years basically to turn it around (which is impossible BTW) before the fanbase turns on him and he is fired?

In the last 14 games, we have 2 wins against P-5 teams. That is 2. Both against Wake Forrest. Defend that.

 

[Scooch]

I don't want to see us become the coaching carousel but its damn hard to hold onto hope with some of the decisions Shafer makes. Another coach means another reset of everything and another 2 years rebuilding. ugh, all of it sucks anyway you look at it

Very good coaches don't need to spend years tearing down a program an rebuilding. Hell, Marrone won 8 games in his second year. Hire the right guy and we'll be bowling in his second year, if not his first. People are needlessly afraid of changing coaches.

Trust Coyle to find the find the right one.

 

[anomander]

I'm not questioning you wanting Shafer gone in general, because I realize there are some people who do. But why would TODAY of all games put you over the hump? Why would losing on the road at freaking Florida State, a team that was favored anywhere by between 16-21 points all week, suddenly change your mind? I guess I just don't get why today is really changing things for people. No one expected us to win. We didn't win.

I can understand why people got fed up with USF and Virginia. But playing at Tallahassee? I guess I just don't get that one.

It could have to do with us getting blown out, and once again being noncompetitive. How was BC (14-0), Wake (24-16), Miami (29-24) able to play with FSU for the entire game, but we aren't? Plus they had to go against Cook, and

How do you know that the new coach after Shafer has a long term future when you are openly advocating that he be fired basically after 2.5 years?

Answer - You don't because if the same thing happens witht he next coach, you will be advocating blowing the whole thing up again, just like now.

Again...why would a coach come here knowing he has 2.5 years basically to turn it around (which is impossible BTW) before the fanbase turns on him and he is fired?

Well if the next coach wins he will have a long-term future.

 

[CuseOnly]

In the last 14 games, we have 2 wins against P-5 teams. That is 2. Both against Wake Forrest. Defend that.

Not defending anyone, answer the question that I asked...

No coach will come here knowing that he has 2.5 years to get it right or he is fired. Period. Unless of course we are willing to overpay, which you know full well we won't.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Very good coaches don't need to spend years tearing down a program an rebuilding. Hell, Marrone won 8 games in his second year. Hire the right guy and we'll be bowling in his second year, if not his first. People are needlessly afraid of changing coaches.

Trust Coyle to find the find the right one.

Yeah, I'm not sure where this idea that new coach = start from zero is coming from.

 

[CuseOnly]

It could have to do with us getting blown out, and once again being noncompetitive. How was BC (14-0), Wake (24-16), Miami (29-24) able to play with FSU for the entire game, but we aren't? Plus they had to go against Cook, and


Well if the next coach wins he will have a long-term future.

Wins in how long? If it takes more that 2.5 years, he is toast. Remember, like Shafer right...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: If I were a coach, I would avoid SU like the plague unless I was overly compensated to do the job.

It's as easy as doing a Ben Franklin and looking at the positives and negatives of the job. The negatives are huge, the positives are very small.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not defending anyone, answer the question that I asked...

No coach will come here knowing that he has 2.5 years to get it right or he is fired. Period. Unless of course we are willing to overpay, which you know full well we won't.

Nobody that comes here will be worried about only getting 2.5 years. They're all smart enough to understand that when you have a new athletic director, and your coach fails to make a bowl in his first year after a losing season, that AD is going to bring someone in of their own choosing.

If we do hire a coach here that's worried about that then Coyle screwed up and brought in a meathead.

 

[Scooch]

Not defending anyone, answer the question that I asked... No coach will come here knowing that he has 2.5 years to get it right or he is fired. Period. Unless of course we are willing to overpay, which you know full well we won't.

What a silly thing to say. Coaches all over the country get fired after 2 or 3 years, and there's never a shortage of people to replace them.

We're one of 65 gig in the P5 with a new AD, a new IPF, and apparently a plan to massively renovate our home stadium. Spend some money and we'll find a coach.

 

[iommi]

You aren't answering the question...

You based your question on a falsehood. You are implying if Shafer is fired, it would scare off candidates because it would show they only have 2 1/2 years to turn it around. As I said, Shafer wasn't hired to turn it around, so it's a stupid concept.

 

[qdawgg]

No coach will come here knowing that he has 2.5 years to get it right or he is fired. Period. .

I love this argument because it's so weak. Any coach we would want to be the next coach, wouldn't think they would be let go in 2.5 years. It's such a ridiculous argument I'm surprised people are still using it.

Actually I'm not, it's one of the last things people have left to hold onto, other than the fallacy all our recruits will leave and we will be worse than 3 wins.

 

[CuseOnly]

What a silly thing to say. Coaches all over the country get fired after 2 or 3 years, and there's never a shortage of people to replace them.

We're one of 65 gig in the P5 with a new AD, a new IPF, and apparently a plan to massively renovate our home stadium. Spend some money and we'll find a coach.

What coaches this year so far have been fired after 2-3 years?

 

[CuseOnly]

I love this argument because it's so weak. Any coach we would want to be the next coach, wouldn't think they would be let go in 2.5 years. It's such a ridiculous argument I'm surprised people are still using it.

Actually I'm not, it's one of the last things people have left to hold onto, other than the fallacy all our recruits will leave and we will be worse than 3 wins.

It being weak is your opinion. You aren't a coach and his hired assistants moving their families here to coach a team and then might have to move them again in 2-3 years.

 

[iommi]

Wins in how long? If it takes more that 2.5 years, he is toast. Remember, like Shafer right...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: If I were a coach, I would avoid SU like the plague unless I was overly compensated to do the job.

It's as easy as doing a Ben Franklin and looking at the positives and negatives of the job. The negatives are huge, the positives are very small.

Straw man argument 101.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It being weak is your opinion. You aren't a coach and his hired assistants moving their families here to coach a team and then might have to move them again in 2-3 years.

That's the life of a coach. They are well aware of that. The only way they have anything other than that happen is if they win consistently and are content where they are.

 

[qdawgg]

It being weak is your opinion. You aren't a coach and his hired assistants moving their families here to coach a team and then might have to move them again in 2-3 years.

Umm, what? Every coach in America plays this game. They all move around on a constant basis. If you don't like it, don't coach. I'm not sure what your argument is?

Shafer has never beaten a ranked team and has no decent wins his entire time here. Any coach that takes this job will know that if they do the same thing they should be gone. It doesn't matter whether they take a job at SU or Miami. If you underperform you lose your job.