Honest assessment

[Millhouse]

This team is not very good. The expectations prior to the season start have not come to fruition. Frank Howard has not shown that he has the ability to run the team on offense and it's a little late to just be attributing that to his ankle injury. I think most people expected that with Battle returning and the strong showing at the end of last year this team would be poised to be very good this season. I think it's fair to say that we have enough data to show that those expectations were unreasonable.

We needed to win this Fl. St. game. The chances of winning the ACC tournament... well, you know... that isn't going to happen.
Short of that it looks like this group is headed straight toward NIT ville. Really disappointing to have that be the current state of affairs with the program the first week of February.

It's really disappointing to watch a game like tonight's and realize that the program, currently is mediocre at best. I have loved Syracuse Basketball more than any sport for the past 30 years and it's really sad to not be excited by what I'm seeing this year. \I'm hoping... that next year things will improve...

we need superstar small forwards to overcome our big guards for the zone being sub par offensively. big athletic guards who can dribble and shoot are highly sought after.

when hughes is a star, we do well. when he's not, it's going to be hard.

 

[shu 49]

We need an actual pg and not a converted one

 

[br801]

This team is not very good. The expectations prior to the season start have not come to fruition. Frank Howard has not shown that he has the ability to run the team on offense and it's a little late to just be attributing that to his ankle injury. I think most people expected that with Battle returning and the strong showing at the end of last year this team would be poised to be very good this season. I think it's fair to say that we have enough data to show that those expectations were unreasonable.

We needed to win this Fl. St. game. The chances of winning the ACC tournament... well, you know... that isn't going to happen.
Short of that it looks like this group is headed straight toward NIT ville. Really disappointing to have that be the current state of affairs with the program the first week of February.

It's really disappointing to watch a game like tonight's and realize that the program, currently is mediocre at best. I have loved Syracuse Basketball more than any sport for the past 30 years and it's really sad to not be excited by what I'm seeing this year. \I'm hoping... that next year things will improve...

I love your posts and admire your passion for the program, but this is just so far afield from what you wrote after the Duke game, and that was just four solid wins and two losses to ranked teams ago.

 

[TinyManInside]

Every team that plays SU puys that game in the same light as if they were playing Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK. It's a huge pelt for them and often they will dial up a great effort A game and the Orange are not quite in position yet to be able to respond to that energy. They are making progress on gelling as a team, but when you have a team like FSU with size, talent and experience who plays a near perfect game, it just going to take more than an average effort to beat them. They will be there by the tourney.

There was zero progress shown in that game other than Brissett finally converting at a decent clip around the basket.

 

[UelSU]

I'm almost to the point of Buddy starting over Frank. The slow starts are killing us. Tyus is just a better at the point (against pressure anyway) and at least Buddy can score occasionally. It's going to be up and down the rest of the way.

 

[chugg21]

I think we are fine in regards to making the tourney. If we can just split the remainder of our games then we should be in safely. I'm just hoping that some people on the board are starting to come to the realization that whatever happens in March doesn't really make a season successful. Losing 12 games in a season is not successful to me, regardless if we make a run to the sweet 16. The ups and downs of the last few years has been fairly miserable and I am in complete agreement that not having a real PG is a major reason for that since they drive college bball for the most part.

 

[Millhouse]

We need an actual pg and not a converted one

we can't land 6'5" actual point guards. it's either tall guys who aren't pgs or short pgs who aren't good at the top of the zone.

 

[shu 49]

True

 

[Townie72]

What I don’t get is the surprise. (Although I actually do.)

At the beginning of the season Boeheim warned fans not to extrapolate using the hot streak in March as a baseline. He said we should look at the whole season.

He said that freshman rarely contribute meaningfully. He said that the other guys besides Battle were going to have to improve. But whether they would or not and how much was not known.

But, in spite of this sober assessment some among us, maybe even most, took off assuming the best and established high expectations. Now we are at the point where a lot of the preseason unknowns or unknowables are coming into focus.

And those who assumed the best are “exhausted” or disappointed or even angry.

I have been waiting to see if this team can “gel”. I wanted to see if the combination of the players figuring it out and JB’s adjustments-and substituion patterns would somehow result in a consistently good team. I’m not going to let a very hot shooting night by FSU and the huge hole we were in overly influence me, but what we have is a middle of the pack ACC team that might squeak into the Tournament.

It’s a little better than last year’s team because of depth and 3pt shooting by Hughes and Boeheim. But Howard, OB, Pascal and Sidebe haven’t improved markedly and they haven’t addressed their weaknesses.

 

[orange44]

Every team that plays SU puys that game in the same light as if they were playing Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK. It's a huge pelt for them and often they will dial up a great effort A game and the Orange are not quite in position yet to be able to respond to that energy. They are making progress on gelling as a team, but when you have a team like FSU with size, talent and experience who plays a near perfect game, it just going to take more than an average effort to beat them. They will be there by the tourney.

Well said!

 

[orange44]

What I don’t get is the surprise. (Although I actually do.)

At the beginning of the season Boeheim warned fans not to extrapolate using the hot streak in March as a baseline. He said we should look at the whole season.

He said that freshman rarely contribute meaningfully. He said that the other guys besides Battle were going to have to improve. But whether they would or not and how much was not known.

But, in spite of this sober assessment some among us, maybe even most, took off assuming the best and established high expectations. Now we are at the point where a lot of the preseason unknowns or unknowables are coming into focus.

And those who assumed the best are “exhausted” or disappointed or even angry.

I have been waiting to see if this team can “gel”. I wanted to see if the combination of the players figuring it out and JB’s adjustments-and substituion patterns would somehow result in a consistently good team. I’m not going to let a very hot shooting night by FSU and the huge hole we were in overly influence me, but what we have is a middle of the pack ACC team that might squeak into the Tournament.

It’s a little better than last year’s team because of depth and 3pt shooting by Hughes and Boeheim. But Howard, OB, Pascal and Sidebe haven’t improved markedly and they haven’t addressed their weaknesses.

Excellent assessment.

 

[Fly Rodder]

we can't land 6'5" actual point guards. it's either tall guys who aren't pgs or short pgs who aren't good at the top of the zone.

6'5" PGs with skills are typically top-20 talents and eventual lottery picks.

 

[Henny & Coke]

I love your posts and admire your passion for the program, but this is just so far afield from what you wrote after the Duke game, and that was just four solid wins and two losses to ranked teams agos.

Exactly right. This is what you wrote just 6 games ago:

"So, I'll cut to the chase. I WAS WRONG. I was very wrong. Entertaining crazy thoughts like the game has passed JB by is compete and utter insanity. All the " recent fluke final 4 appearances have masked the fact that Cuse is a program in decline" are flat out wrong. 48 hours later we were hanging loss around the necks of the #1 Blue Devils, Away, and after finding ourselves down 12 - zip... this team, this Syracuse team who many had already relegated to being careening toward an NIT type season at best, began to find itself, began to become the vision that JB has for this group of kids.

Wow... I had just been treated to what will become one of the most memorable games over the stretch of my CuseBB fandom. and I'm not a kid anymore... I've been watching this program for 45 years with uninterrupted intensity. I had been wrong about this team. Dead wrong. And wrong about JB. I had committed the greatest sin that a true die hard fan could commit.
I had begun to doubt... I had lost faith. I had let a few early season head shaking losses get me to throw in with the naysayers.

I had drawn conclusions based on limited evidence and perhaps worst of all, I had doubted that this group of kids didn't have what it takes to dig down individually and surrender themselves to the team... and never quit.

I'm glad I was wrong. I was very wrong. Tip of the hat to all of the kids on the team and to JB... who I should never doubt."

So...were you wrong about being wrong? Or are you wrong now? I'm so confused lol.

And I just gotta know...are you like this in other areas of life too?

- Do you manage your stock portfolio like this?

"Company had a one quarter drop in earnings? Sell, sell, sell! Next quarter beat estimates? Buy, buy, buy, why did I ever sell dammit?"

- Do you parent like this?

"Are you kidding, how could you miss curfew like this? Your the worst kid EVER. This report card is amazing...my kid is a GENIUS!"

- Do you gamble like this?

"21 Blackjack, ha! This game is so easy...I'm all in!"

 

[Millhouse]

6'5" PGs with skills are typically top-20 talents and eventual lottery picks.

Yup. The zone limits how good we can be but it limits how bad we can be. We'll always be decent and once in a while a transcendent forward can get you over the hump. I keep trying to live with it but when they lose, it's easy to see why.

 

[chugg21]

What I don’t get is the surprise. (Although I actually do.)

At the beginning of the season Boeheim warned fans not to extrapolate using the hot streak in March as a baseline. He said we should look at the whole season.

He said that freshman rarely contribute meaningfully. He said that the other guys besides Battle were going to have to improve. But whether they would or not and how much was not known.

But, in spite of this sober assessment some among us, maybe even most, took off assuming the best and established high expectations. Now we are at the point where a lot of the preseason unknowns or unknowables are coming into focus.

And those who assumed the best are “exhausted” or disappointed or even angry.

I have been waiting to see if this team can “gel”. I wanted to see if the combination of the players figuring it out and JB’s adjustments-and substituion patterns would somehow result in a consistently good team. I’m not going to let a very hot shooting night by FSU and the huge hole we were in overly influence me, but what we have is a middle of the pack ACC team that might squeak into the Tournament.

It’s a little better than last year’s team because of depth and 3pt shooting by Hughes and Boeheim. But Howard, OB, Pascal and Sidebe haven’t improved markedly and they haven’t addressed their weaknesses.

I'm still mostly confused by why it is surprising that if we recruit as a middle of the pack ACC team that we then end up as a middle of the pack ACC team when it's time to play the games. Maybe we are just so used to recruiting those long undervalued guys and turning them into something better that we expect that to be the norm more than it being something rare which is probably is. That and guys recently seeming to not develop much seem to be the major problems.

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm still mostly confused by why it is surprising that if we recruit as a middle of the pack ACC team that we then end up as a middle of the pack ACC team when it's time to play the games. Maybe we are just so used to recruiting those long undervalued guys and turning them into something better that we expect that to be the norm more than it being something rare which is probably is. That and guys recently seeming to not develop much seem to be the major problems.

That's kind of like your title below your name. Speaking of which, how do you make a non-generic one like I have?

 

[chugg21]

That's kind of like your title below your name. Speaking of which, how do you make a non-generic one like I have?

Click on your name at the top next to where it says Inbox, Alerts etc... and then click on acct details. Should be able to put whatever you'd like under Custom Title.

 

[Cusefan0307]

op bi-polar posting

 

[NorSyr66]

What I don’t get is the surprise. (Although I actually do.)

At the beginning of the season Boeheim warned fans not to extrapolate using the hot streak in March as a baseline. He said we should look at the whole season.

He said that freshman rarely contribute meaningfully. He said that the other guys besides Battle were going to have to improve. But whether they would or not and how much was not known.

But, in spite of this sober assessment some among us, maybe even most, took off assuming the best and established high expectations. Now we are at the point where a lot of the preseason unknowns or unknowables are coming into focus.

And those who assumed the best are “exhausted” or disappointed or even angry.

I have been waiting to see if this team can “gel”. I wanted to see if the combination of the players figuring it out and JB’s adjustments-and substituion patterns would somehow result in a consistently good team. I’m not going to let a very hot shooting night by FSU and the huge hole we were in overly influence me, but what we have is a middle of the pack ACC team that might squeak into the Tournament.

It’s a little better than last year’s team because of depth and 3pt shooting by Hughes and Boeheim. But Howard, OB, Pascal and Sidebe haven’t improved markedly and they haven’t addressed their weaknesses.

Well said. Very well said. We get all wrapped up in the excitement and the depression after our wins and losses. It has been a rough season so far mostly due to our high expectations along side slow or total lack of improvement by some of the returning players. Frank is simply a mystery at this time and Buddy does not add much to the starting five when he not hitting 3s. Yes FSU was hot last evening but the key was they used 9/10 players and we completely burned out our players trying to press and recover from a 22 point deficit. They were rested and kept rotating and JB had basically 5 players he could use and at least 3 did not even score! Tough game but lately it has been the Syracuse Orange roller coaster ride.

 

[Briancuse]

I love your posts and admire your passion for the program, but this is just so far afield from what you wrote after the Duke game, and that was just four solid wins and two losses to ranked teams ago.

The duke win is a great moment but it doesn't change the fact that we have some terrible losses and performances. This has been one of the most disappointing su teams in recent memory.

 

[Townie72]

I'm still mostly confused by why it is surprising that if we recruit as a middle of the pack ACC team that we then end up as a middle of the pack ACC team when it's time to play the games. Maybe we are just so used to recruiting those long undervalued guys and turning them into something better that we expect that to be the norm more than it being something rare which is probably is. That and guys recently seeming to not develop much seem to be the major problems.

You actually answered your own question.

Different players have different values to different teams depending on the strAtegy of the team.

So grouping SUs recruits in with other schools who have a different strategy is not very instructive or useful. We are not, as you say, recruiting middle of the pack recruits.

We place a premium on very tall, very long players. But you know that. So an SU re recruit has a higher value to SU than to other schools.

What you are saying is that the strategy is flawed and that we ought to have a standard offense and defense and recruit to that. Then we would really be able to assess our recruiting because we would be going after the very same players everybody else is.

 

[HakAttack]

Click on your name at the top next to where it says Inbox, Alerts etc... and then click on acct details. Should be able to put whatever you'd like under Custom Title.

Excellent.

 

[chugg21]

You actually answered your own question.

Different players have different values to different teams depending on the strAtegy of the team.

So grouping SUs recruits in with other schools who have a different strategy is not very instructive or useful. We are not, as you say, recruiting middle of the pack recruits.

We place a premium on very tall, very long players. But you know that. So an SU re recruit has a higher value to SU than to other schools.

What you are saying is that the strategy is flawed and that we ought to have a standard offense and defense and recruit to that. Then we would really be able to assess our recruiting because we would be going after the very same players everybody else is.

Honestly I'm fine with it at every position except at PG. PGs control college bball. 4 of the last 5 MOPs at the Final Four were PGs and the other was DiVincenzo last year who had the ball in his hands a lot. We've been a mess at the position since Ennis trying to convert combo guards into lead guards. Playing the point is the one position where it is more natural and a mindset then something that can be learned later on and we are worse off for it.

 

[CousCuse]

There was zero progress shown in that game other than Brissett finally converting at a decent clip around the basket.

I was referring to progress on the season.

 

[KevMonstah]

I would agree that SU ought to broaden their thinking for the PGs. The style of game
they play puts a premium on PG skills, and I think they desperately need a PG who has
the ability to beat his guy with the dribble. I would think they could do without
needing 6-5ish guards up top to get some better offense. They get sucked into the
post anyways and give up lots of open 3s, what difference is it if he's out of position
and is 6-1 or is 6-5? I jest, but not completely.

The other thing, I would not mind the "Syracuse player" no longer being 6-9, 180, but
please be 6-9, 210. No more beanpoles.

Kev